EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7197
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
How'd you explain to the rest of the world that someone can be kidnapped in your country and shipped all the way to europe without anyone realising. And obviously, someone would realise that the guy was missing eventually. Staging a hit wouldn't work either, because Erdogan wants to make him an example, so.. I dunno. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 25 2017 11:37 xDaunt wrote: Just looking at various conservative media outlets, I'm not sure that Ryan is going to survive as Speaker after the AHCA failure. lmfao if we could have only known 5 years ago that Paul Ryan would be considered too liberal. So lets assume the very real possibility of Ryan being toast. Who takes his place? | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On March 25 2017 11:39 Mohdoo wrote: lmfao if we could have only known 5 years ago that Paul Ryan would be considered too liberal. So lets assume the very real possibility of Ryan being toast. Who takes his place? Its the John Boehner problem where there isnt anyone who can replace him. If Paul Ryan were ousted there would literally not be enough votes for anyone to replace him and as long as thats true he can be speaker as long as he wants. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 25 2017 11:39 Mohdoo wrote: lmfao if we could have only known 5 years ago that Paul Ryan would be considered too liberal. So lets assume the very real possibility of Ryan being toast. Who takes his place? Ryan's problem isn't that he's too liberal. His problem is that he's a political nincompoop. To put it bluntly, you have to be a fucking retard to think that it's a good idea to try passing a bill that antagonizes half of your party while drawing zero support from the opposing party. Because of his failure, everyone now sees Ryan as an ineffective leader. That he already had a tenuous relationship with the republican president only makes things worse for him. There are a number of potential replacements. Lots of people are saying that Meadows is effectively in command now, anyway. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On March 25 2017 09:24 Plansix wrote: One of the big differences is that the Tea Party has been in congress for like 6 years and have actively cultivated other GOP members distaste for them. Let alone the Democrats. They have gone out of their way to fuck over their own party. The entire senate hates Ted Cruz, cannot fucking stand him. If the Republicans had not taken the hard line of not working with the Democrats on ANYTHING for 6 years, the Tea Party would be powerless. All their power is based on the fact that the party line holds. When that ends, they will just be jokes. So they should have power for at least another 2-4 years. And yet, most like Rand Paul who is for a much smaller Government footprint than Cruz is. The same goes for the Freedom Caucus. They're great guys - they don't get along to get along. Amash, Massie, Sanford, Labrador, etc. They may be hated by other GOP wimpsacks, but their constituencies love them, which is all that matters. You're there to represent your district and their values, not be a Commisarit tool of the Party. I wouldn't expect Democrats to understand that though since Party Uber Alles is their MO. By the way, they'd get a lot of shit done if they had their druthers. Just because it's not adding more laws on the books, doesn't mean they're not doing their job. DC is a labyrinthine system of rules and regulations that no sane person has any grasp of. It's the reason why the average person commits 3 felonies a day without realizing it. Such an angelic system. How dare anyone take a saw to it. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On March 25 2017 11:57 Wegandi wrote: I wouldn't expect Democrats to understand that though since Party Uber Alles is their MO. I love how this accusation is used so heavily by people regardless of party affiliation. | ||
KwarK
United States44311 Posts
Ryan's response is pretty interesting. Two questions for you if you don't mind. Number one, the bottom line is right now that Obamacare remains the law of the land That's right Is that going to change in 2017? Yeah, I don't know what else to say other than Obamacare is the law of the land, it's gonna remain the law of the land until it's replaced. We did not have quite the votes to replace this law. And so yeah we're going to be living with Obamacare for the foreseeable future. I don't know how long it's going to take to replace this law. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Which, in return, makes you wonder if one can vote republicans with a clear conscience. I get that some want to vote conservative, and that's absolutely fine - but the republican party is not conservative. It's a spiteful and petty collection of people that should not be in politics full stop. And yes, i know, democrats etc blabla pp, but i'd cut them at least some slack after this astonishing display of inability. | ||
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Introvert
United States5029 Posts
But given his clear desire to work on other things he left it to squishes who all disagreed with each other. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On March 25 2017 12:46 m4ini wrote: Makes me wonder what republicans actually do. I mean.. I really can't tell if they're just a bunch of whiny, spiteful old farts trying to repeal ACA just because. After so long, and so many tries to repeal/replace it, one would think that they could come up with something at least workable. Which, in return, makes you wonder if one can vote republicans with a clear conscience. I get that some want to vote conservative, and that's absolutely fine - but the republican party is not conservative. It's a spiteful and petty collection of people that should not be in politics full stop. And yes, i know, democrats etc blabla pp, but i'd cut them at least some slack after this astonishing display of inability. They had clarity, or more so than now at least, back in the Bush years. Which worked out as well as we all know. While they've managed to recreate their image since then, they haven't managed to recreate their platform - and the result is that they are one massive contradiction of a party. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
If someone idolizes Ayn Rand then spends their life as a career politician, alarm bells should go off as to whether they have the chops and wisdom necessary to get anything done. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
It's a tough nut to crack. The problem with Republicans isn't [just] their internal politics, the problem is basic reality not bending to the iron-will of John Galt. This is and was the bill they wanted. They complained about this issue for 7 years. But then comes reality, and it turns out keeping people healthy isn't actually solved by "economic freedom". | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On March 25 2017 13:18 TheTenthDoc wrote: I will never understand why anyone thinks Paul Ryan can accomplish things. He has a long history of mediocrity or worse. His budgets were gibberish. He sucked as a VP candidate in 2012, and he got de facto'd into the Speaker role. If someone idolizes Ayn Rand then spends their life as a career politician, alarm bells should go off as to whether they have the chops and wisdom necessary to get anything done. He only got the job because literally no one on earth wanted it. Not sure anyone actually thinks he's not awful, even his own party. But the job was fucking toxic, no one wanted anything to do with it, and Ryan ended up there. Hopefully he soon falls irrelevancy like many before him. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 25 2017 13:18 TheTenthDoc wrote: I will never understand why anyone thinks Paul Ryan can accomplish things. He has a long history of mediocrity or worse. His budgets were gibberish. He sucked as a VP candidate in 2012, and he got de facto'd into the Speaker role. If someone idolizes Ayn Rand then spends their life as a career politician, alarm bells should go off as to whether they have the chops and wisdom necessary to get anything done. I saw some MSNBC guy who said that literally everyone in the trump administration+Paul Ryan were in way over their heads. Hard to argue. But yeah I guess everyone just sort of assumed that Ryan was good despite a lack of a record. Also the people who think the freedom caucus are heroes clearly haven't followed politics very long. Good for them in the short term but I don't see much getting done with them calling shots in the house. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
For all of Trump's faults, he certainly plays a rockin' game of divide and conquer with the fractured Republican base. Even after the election. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14210 Posts
On March 25 2017 14:07 LegalLord wrote: In 2012 Ryan struck me as a dangerous idiot who would push unviable plans that would never work and would suck and be terrible. Since 2012 I would remove the "dangerous" part because between his political non-talent and the fractured party he is the Speaker of the House for, he merely exists, rather than posing an important voice or a threat. For all of Trump's faults, he certainly plays a rockin' game of divide and conquer with the fractured Republican base. Even after the election. Shooting yourself in the foot questioning the loyalty of your supporters and failing to deliver on anything isn't playing divide and conquer its just failing. Trump lost in this I guess not as much as paul ryan but no one won in this. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On March 25 2017 14:07 LegalLord wrote: In 2012 Ryan struck me as a dangerous idiot who would push unviable plans that would never work and would suck and be terrible. Since 2012 I would remove the "dangerous" part because between his political non-talent and the fractured party he is the Speaker of the House for, he merely exists, rather than posing an important voice or a threat. For all of Trump's faults, he certainly plays a rockin' game of divide and conquer with the fractured Republican base. Even after the election. He has the divide part down but I am not so sure about the conquer part. All he seems to have done is further fracture a fractured party to the point where I am not actually sure what they will be able to do. Maybe they will be able to do tax reform but even then I am less sure about it which stuns me. | ||
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