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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 22 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:36 Slaughter wrote:On March 22 2017 02:25 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 02:22 brian wrote:On March 22 2017 02:16 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 02:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 22 2017 01:39 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 01:26 KwarK wrote:On March 22 2017 01:14 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 01:10 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[quote]
So if I started a rebellion in FL for Spain to take us back with 70% FL residents backing, will the US allow it? The better example would be Mexicans in the American Southwest rebelling to rejoin Mexico. I'd let them if they represented popular opinion and were not simply a proxy for a foreign power. The United Kingdom was right to grant dominion status to Southern Ireland and was right to use the army to fight the IRA in Northern Ireland. I'd rather tighten immigration controls and expel the secessionists, sending them back to Mexico. Regardless, the situations in the Ukraine, Ireland, and the American Southwest are all good examples of why multinationalism/multiculturalism are retarded policies for a nation to pursue and promote. As demonstrated the example of the United States of America, a nation founded and lade of irish, italians, ashkenaz jews from Ukrain and Russia, swedes, frenchmen, english and scots, dutch, chinese, countless africans from all around the continent and people from countless other places going from Korea to Portugal. Clearly those people never managed to work together, and clearly bringing all those cultures and nationalities together to build one nation was "retarded". xDaunt, we get it, you have firmly xenophobic views and really don't like immigrants, but for Christ sake, take a second to think before writing because you give me headaches when you post stuff like that. This is the problem with you Regressive Leftists. Your heads are so far up the posterior of the politically correct that you automatically ascribe any questioning of the wisdom of unrestricted multiculturalism to xenophobia. How dull. And how wrong. History is replete with examples where nations, countries, and empires were destroyed by the forces of multiculturalism. Singular national identity is a critical element to national stability. It takes an awful lot of hubris to presume that America is some how specially exempt from these forces. It's not. And let me cue you in on something so that your next post shows a little more critical thinking. National identity and cultural identity are not the same as racial identity. My children are a mix of the following races: Lebanese, Irish, Italian, Chinese, Dutch, and Czhech. However, by the time that they are adults, they will unequivocally self-identify as Americans. Why? Because they will be in an environment where Americanism will be instilled into them. Americans used to do this on a national level, but the radical Left has slowly but surely put the brakes on it. Promoting policies that dilute American national identity is nothing short of a national suicide pact. this post is so full of ridiculous bullshit it was almost hard to swallow. your own example is full of what some would call multiculturalism. an american identity being that which is of multiple nationalities. calling that acceptable americanism just because you excluded mexicans boils down to just plain racism. our entire national identity's foundation is multiculturalism. in before you call this overt PC'ness for calling you out on just flat stupidity. It looks like you don't understand the differences between nationality, culture, and race. The same way you did when you listed a bunch of nationalities and called them races when talking about your kids? Eh, fair point. There's arguably some sloppiness in the terminology as applied there, but it doesn't affect my core point.
lol so this you accept for your own purposes and dismiss on others whew hypocrite. i guess the jokes on me for continuing to read your posts.
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On March 22 2017 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:Glad to see we'll have a fashion designer helping to run the country.
Ruling like a king getting family members in all the right posts. I thought we abandoned this concept a few hundred years ago xD
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On March 22 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:36 Slaughter wrote:On March 22 2017 02:25 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 02:22 brian wrote:On March 22 2017 02:16 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 02:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 22 2017 01:39 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 01:26 KwarK wrote:On March 22 2017 01:14 xDaunt wrote:On March 22 2017 01:10 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[quote]
So if I started a rebellion in FL for Spain to take us back with 70% FL residents backing, will the US allow it? The better example would be Mexicans in the American Southwest rebelling to rejoin Mexico. I'd let them if they represented popular opinion and were not simply a proxy for a foreign power. The United Kingdom was right to grant dominion status to Southern Ireland and was right to use the army to fight the IRA in Northern Ireland. I'd rather tighten immigration controls and expel the secessionists, sending them back to Mexico. Regardless, the situations in the Ukraine, Ireland, and the American Southwest are all good examples of why multinationalism/multiculturalism are retarded policies for a nation to pursue and promote. As demonstrated the example of the United States of America, a nation founded and lade of irish, italians, ashkenaz jews from Ukrain and Russia, swedes, frenchmen, english and scots, dutch, chinese, countless africans from all around the continent and people from countless other places going from Korea to Portugal. Clearly those people never managed to work together, and clearly bringing all those cultures and nationalities together to build one nation was "retarded". xDaunt, we get it, you have firmly xenophobic views and really don't like immigrants, but for Christ sake, take a second to think before writing because you give me headaches when you post stuff like that. This is the problem with you Regressive Leftists. Your heads are so far up the posterior of the politically correct that you automatically ascribe any questioning of the wisdom of unrestricted multiculturalism to xenophobia. How dull. And how wrong. History is replete with examples where nations, countries, and empires were destroyed by the forces of multiculturalism. Singular national identity is a critical element to national stability. It takes an awful lot of hubris to presume that America is some how specially exempt from these forces. It's not. And let me cue you in on something so that your next post shows a little more critical thinking. National identity and cultural identity are not the same as racial identity. My children are a mix of the following races: Lebanese, Irish, Italian, Chinese, Dutch, and Czhech. However, by the time that they are adults, they will unequivocally self-identify as Americans. Why? Because they will be in an environment where Americanism will be instilled into them. Americans used to do this on a national level, but the radical Left has slowly but surely put the brakes on it. Promoting policies that dilute American national identity is nothing short of a national suicide pact. this post is so full of ridiculous bullshit it was almost hard to swallow. your own example is full of what some would call multiculturalism. an american identity being that which is of multiple nationalities. calling that acceptable americanism just because you excluded mexicans boils down to just plain racism. our entire national identity's foundation is multiculturalism. in before you call this overt PC'ness for calling you out on just flat stupidity. It looks like you don't understand the differences between nationality, culture, and race. The same way you did when you listed a bunch of nationalities and called them races when talking about your kids? Eh, fair point. There's arguably some sloppiness in the terminology as applied there, but it doesn't affect my core point.
Your right there is a ton of sloppiness in terminology, mostly because people don't understand the concepts and often mix and conflate the two. Just going by the day 1 surveys we hand out to students, they have no idea about the subject and hell even when constructing their own identities its pretty fluid and sometimes done with arbitrary reasons.
To your main point though, what is the culture you want people to assimilate into? The US itself is already really freaking diverse, even if you ignore the minorities and just look at the white population. They have extremely different values. If you are talking about some vague overarching core ideas like stuff that is in the constitution, well then I don't know if immigrants don't already like those and take them up anyway.
There are many aspects to culture that people choose to emphasize or deemphasize at any given time. Parts they want to hold onto and others they are more willing to give up. I would agree with your main point that you do need glue to hold people together as a group for the nation state to survive but I don't think in the US that is exactly threatened really. Culture shifts and changes constantly as time goes on and the makeup of the US is changing through demographic changes and structural ones that made the dominant demographic less so.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 22 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:45 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 02:55 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
Probably about when the US pays Britain for the land they took. They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s boarders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. Yup, sounds like trying to whine more than making any real point. Oh well, I guess the reality of a Trump presidency causes some people to lose their mind. Maybe don't try to pretend that a terrible candidate is electable next time and avoid 90% of all the troubles that happened this time around. Can't even beat a pussy grabber and apparently it's Russia's fault. Hacking didn't make Trump have the opening he needed to win. LL, if you just admitted you were from Russia and are Pro-Russia because you are from Russia, we wouldn’t be having this snippy argument. But sadly, you decided to operate a less than open manner and people caught on. So now people see you for the disingenuous shill that you are and no one really takes you that seriously.
Hmm, perhaps you could have paid attention to the fact that I've directly stated as much on multiple occasions? Not my problem if you don't pay attention and then end up being a troll because you suddenly found out something everyone already knew with an "omg, I discovered a bombshell omg!!!!!!@!@!@!@" attitude.
Bitch please.
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On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 02:55 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 02:50 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So when is Russia going to pay the Ukraine for the land they took? Because that wasn’t all owned by the people. Probably about when the US pays Britain for the land they took. They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name].
It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you?
You see, we in the US can play that game too.
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so apparently Trump has now based his strategy on the godfather. Frum points out this could be a problem. Interesting;y yesterday the head of the freedom caucus was talking about primary'ing anyone who voted for the bill.
also fund this interesting.
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On March 22 2017 04:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:Glad to see we'll have a fashion designer helping to run the country. Ruling like a king getting family members in all the right posts. I thought we abandoned this concept a few hundred years ago xD
It was Bush II not long ago, and the other choice this round was the wife of a previous president. It's becoming a tradition in the US.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Yeah, sounds like a DOA policy being pushed by a president who doesn't know any better.
I don't think he will be able to get what he wants. At least three Senators will tell him to go fuck himself. And if not, filibuster. They lose their seat much harder for supporting a stupid policy than for opposing the president.
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On March 22 2017 04:13 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On March 22 2017 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:Glad to see we'll have a fashion designer helping to run the country. Ruling like a king getting family members in all the right posts. I thought we abandoned this concept a few hundred years ago xD It was Bush II not long ago, and the other choice this round was the wife of a previous president. It's becoming a tradition in the US.
But those all got elected separately on separate occasions. This guy is just placing unelected family members into power.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 22 2017 04:13 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On March 22 2017 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:Glad to see we'll have a fashion designer helping to run the country. Ruling like a king getting family members in all the right posts. I thought we abandoned this concept a few hundred years ago xD It was Bush II not long ago, and the other choice this round was the wife of a previous president. It's becoming a tradition in the US.
Well there is a reason why Jeb Bush got slaughtered in the primary. Clinton avoided that issue with impressive support before a single vote was cast but she lost for a reason.
But yeah, the Trumps are much more akin to a ruling family than the legacy presidencies.
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United States42784 Posts
On March 22 2017 04:13 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On March 22 2017 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:Glad to see we'll have a fashion designer helping to run the country. Ruling like a king getting family members in all the right posts. I thought we abandoned this concept a few hundred years ago xD It was Bush II not long ago, and the other choice this round was the wife of a previous president. It's becoming a tradition in the US.
And the guy between them? Obama is enough of an outsider to pretty much discredit the entire notion that it's insiders only. He's not just black, he's an outsider to the African American community. He's from Hawaii, which is only an American state as a formality to recognize that America doesn't want actual colonies, he's from an immigrant family etc. The exception in this case is so exceptional it destroys the entire argument.
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On March 22 2017 04:13 LegalLord wrote:Yeah, sounds like a DOA policy being pushed by a president who doesn't know any better. I don't think he will be able to get what he wants. At least three Senators will tell him to go fuck himself. And if not, filibuster. They lose their seat much harder for supporting a stupid policy than for opposing the president.
Instead of a Brexit Plus plus he's pulling an Arnold plus plus. Just with his own party against him this time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_special_election,_2005
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On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 02:55 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
Probably about when the US pays Britain for the land they took. They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too.
It would hold some weight if I hadn't been arguing for essentially disbanding NATO. You, on the other hand, suggested that no one had broken the rules of respecting a nation's borders for a long time when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 and even just last week sent a military unit uninvited into Syria.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 22 2017 04:17 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:13 LegalLord wrote:Yeah, sounds like a DOA policy being pushed by a president who doesn't know any better. I don't think he will be able to get what he wants. At least three Senators will tell him to go fuck himself. And if not, filibuster. They lose their seat much harder for supporting a stupid policy than for opposing the president. Instead of a Brexit Plus plus he's pulling an Arnold plus plus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_special_election,_2005
Maybe we should vote by referendum for the AHCA just for the fun of it.
The people's will!
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On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 02:55 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
Probably about when the US pays Britain for the land they took. They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too.
a_flayer is someone who tried so hard to 'escape' Western 'propaganda' that he got caught up the opposite end.
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On March 22 2017 04:20 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too. a_flayer is someone who tried so hard to 'escape' Western 'propaganda' that he got caught up the opposite end.
oh, is it just Russian propaganda that the US invaded Iraq under a false premise and disbanded their army which partially turned into ISIS once they had left? Not based in reality at all?
I'm not at all on Russias side. I'm also not on the "western" side as that has been infected with Americanism. I'm on the side of Europe. You can call me a European nationalist if you like to use those sort of terms (although I wouldn't). I merely come across as "pro-Russia" because everyone here is so incredibly anti-Russian and I like to be contrary.
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On March 22 2017 04:17 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:08 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
They beat the shit out of us in the war of 1812 and then we got along. But I’m glad you finally admitted your country stole the land and silenced any opposition to taking it, which is what we did with the Torys. So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too. It would hold some weight if I hadn't been arguing for essentially disbanding NATO. You, on the other hand, suggested that no one had broken the rules of respecting a nation's borders for a long time when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 and even just last week sent a military unit uninvited into Syria.
Hey, if you can get the rest if our country to agree with that, it won’t be a hard sell for us to stop footing the bill for your national defense. It hasn’t been that popular over here in a long time.
Same with Syria. If we had any confidence in the EU nations to handle that thing on their own, I’m sure we would never get involved. Sadly your track record is pretty piss poor. You are good at heckling from the sidelines. The reason I know this is that the one time the US decided not to jump into the middle of a Middle East conflict, the EU as a whole just hung out and hoped it would resolve itself. And that didn’t really work out.
We can play the blame game all day, but at some point we travel back to when the US wasn’t a world power and everyone ignored Hitler. And before that how everyone was super smart after WWI and decided to slap Germany really hard for like two decades.
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On March 22 2017 04:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:17 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too. It would hold some weight if I hadn't been arguing for essentially disbanding NATO. You, on the other hand, suggested that no one had broken the rules of respecting a nation's borders for a long time when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 and even just last week sent a military unit uninvited into Syria. Hey, if you can get the rest if our country to agree with that, it won’t be a hard sell for us to stop footing the bill for your national defense. It hasn’t been that popular over here in a long time. Same with Syria. If we had any confidence in the EU nations to handle that thing on their own, I’m sure we would never get involved. Sadly your track record is pretty piss poor. You are good at heckling from the sidelines. The reason I know this is that the one time the US decided not to jump into the middle of a Middle East conflict, the EU as a whole just hung out and hoped it would resolve itself. And that didn’t really work out. We can play the blame game all day, but at some point we travel back to when the US wasn’t a world power and everyone ignored Hitler. And before that how everyone was super smart after WWI and decided to slap Germany really hard for like two decades.
Well, in many ways, WW1 and WW2 is the reason why most major nations of the world are gun-shy about actually committing to a war, outside of the US.
European (and Asian) nations see war as a gruelling, deadly affair where millions and millions of lives were lost over the span of two decades, and hundreds of cities were gutted and levelled.
The US (and, to be fair, a lot of nations not directly attacked) glorify the wars and their contributions, and suffered few direct repercussions from it. And the US in particular see this period as the time where the nation exploded in wealth and power and became the leading power.
So not shocking which nations still worship militarization, and which ones don't.
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The problem I think people have with multiculturalism is that they are afraid the few bad apples that will sneak in will blow them up ~my oversimplified all over the place analogy
@Plansix: Yeah, let's never criticize things that's done from other entities when we want their help, because the other, bigger, badder entities will fuck shit up elsewise. Let's not question the mean to an end, ever. We should just stay silent and look how it's done.
I don't think you realize how it is for a nation to cope on a globalist level when it relatively speaking doesn't have the resources like the giants do (Russia, China, India, USA, ...) How does 17 million people weigh up to 300+? Or to a country with 8 times as much people, but plenty more resources?
And if the US didn't come to the NATO, we'd probably had another world war on our hands before the last one was well digested.
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On March 22 2017 04:26 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 04:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 22 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:48 a_flayer wrote:On March 22 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:33 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:22 LegalLord wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2017 03:13 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
So what you're trying to say is that you have to fight a war and then get along in order to avoid having to pay for the land? That we didn’t get along for a generation after the revolution and the British Empire was openly aggressive with US traders for that entire time. Their allies too. It is a pipe dream to think the Ukraine will get along with newly annexed Crimea. I give it about another decade of unhappiness. I give it a 30 percent chance that after the current leadership gets chased out for being terrible, they just say fuck it and take back Yanukovich. Because at this point, why not? And in that time, don’t be shocked if the rest of Europe decides that Russia can’t be trusted to not roll over the boarder when they feel some section of land should be theirs. Because that is has been the status quo for a while now and someone decided they didn’t want to do it. Eh, not sure where you're going with any of this. Seems just like aimless "fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia fuck Russia" circular logic. Certainly isn't a coherent argument in any of this. You broke the rules. Respect nation’s borders and deal directly with their governments. They are old rules and exist for a reason. No one has broken them in a very long time. So yeah, the response is “fuck the people who broke the rules we all agreed to play by”. Don’t hack our political parties either. Its not rocket science. I get it that you folks don’t hold real elections over there, but we take them seriously here. My response to the highlighted part: .................................................................................................................................................. Also, with regards to hacking (aka interfering) in elections: .................................................................................................................................................. It is really fucking unbearable [to read comments like that from someone with "United States" next to their name]. It is unbearable to see people from “Netherlands” next to their name who government gladly signed up for NATO to protect them from the USSR back in the day, but now is all pissy because didn't like how the job was done. But hey, I guess being a heckler is easier than protecting your own nation on your own dime. Why leave the moral high ground when you can sign up to have other people do that for you? You see, we in the US can play that game too. a_flayer is someone who tried so hard to 'escape' Western 'propaganda' that he got caught up the opposite end. oh, is it just Russian propaganda that the US invaded Iraq under a false premise and disbanded their army which partially turned into ISIS once they had left? Not based in reality at all?
What is your point? No one in this thread claims anything other then this.
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EPT
