• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:25
CET 20:25
KST 04:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10122 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7113

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7111 7112 7113 7114 7115 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
March 13 2017 23:00 GMT
#142241
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 13 2017 23:03 GMT
#142242
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 23:17:05
March 13 2017 23:08 GMT
#142243
On March 14 2017 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 07:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
Channeling LegalLord, Most Popular Politician Around Bernard Sanders lost the nomination by over 3m votes


lol. You know that she got crushed in the primaries that weren't closed. That whole shtick is old hat. Yeah, Democrats like her, Bernie's popularity extends beyond Democratic party loyalists though.

Here we go with another attempt by GH to re-write history. Although Clinton did best in closed primaries, she still actually won more open contests (primaries and caucuses) than Sanders. And if you remove caucuses and only look at open primaries, the trend is even more in her favor, so the idea that "she got crushed in the primaries that weren't closed" is a complete falsehood -- the opposite is true. Here's an excellent analysis by 538 showing how Sanders benefited enormously from caucuses, and how Clinton would have beaten him by roughly the same margin as she did even if every state had had an open primary.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
March 13 2017 23:08 GMT
#142244
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 13 2017 23:09 GMT
#142245
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

If it was a real argument the Democrats would be saying "This is how we get medicare for all..."


wait, the democratic primary for the democratic nomination for the democratic nominee for the democratic party is for democrats? next thing you'll be telling me that football games include football players wearing football equipment playing by the rules of football in a football stadium using a football.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
March 13 2017 23:11 GMT
#142246
On March 14 2017 08:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

If it was a real argument the Democrats would be saying "This is how we get medicare for all..."


wait, the democratic primary for the democratic nomination for the democratic nominee for the democratic party is for democrats? next thing you'll be telling me that football games include football players wearing football equipment playing by the rules of football in a football stadium using a football.


In case you haven't noticed Democrats aren't just less popular than Trump, they are less popular than even the GOP. Maybe, just maybe, the insular nature of the party isn't helpful?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
March 13 2017 23:13 GMT
#142247
Not every country has "Medicare for all". Some systems, like in Switzerland, are more similar to the current American system under the ACA.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 13 2017 23:15 GMT
#142248
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:
The question, as it always has been, is how Bernie would implement his universal healthcare (or punish banks, or whatever)?

Bernie would be a better President than Trump, because he has a better temperament to setbacks. But unless he can actually say he has a detailed plan in place, I would foresee him walking into the oval office, and then walk out with the same "who knew it would be this hard" excuse when he can't deliver on his promises.


I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
March 13 2017 23:18 GMT
#142249
Hillary's results so far have been pretty abysmal. Her travel ban, the dismantling of the EPA, her treatment of transgender students have all been pretty shit IMO.
Maybe she should have spent less time making sure the primaries were locked down and instead focused on the general election.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 23:21:59
March 13 2017 23:18 GMT
#142250
On March 14 2017 08:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]

I heard this Hillary person had a plan for universal healthcare before the 16 race?

If that's the problem, then Democrats should be working on the implementation of a medicare for all system, and let Bernie (the most popular politician around) handle the PR.

But that's not the problem.

Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.


You think Democrats would be able to get more or less done with Bernie as President as opposed to Trump?

Let's say you're right, Bernie's just telling a story, wouldn't it be better to have him in charge so the "results" Democrats could do the leg work of getting a better system passed?

EDIT: But I don't really want to rehash that, my point is why not rally behind him now instead of sitting around with their thumbs in their bums.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 13 2017 23:26 GMT
#142251
On March 14 2017 08:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Well, I guess, at least you're being honest about wanting Bernie because of popularity and not results...


The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.


You think Democrats would be able to get more or less done with Bernie as President as opposed to Trump?

Let's say you're right, Bernie's just telling a story, wouldn't it be better to have him in charge so the "results" Democrats could do the leg work of getting a better system passed?

Well, I didn't say Bernie would've won 2016 over Trump, or that he would have won Congress and Senate for the Democrats either.

But, uh, sure, I imagine having Bernie as a figurehead making big promises that actual policymakers have to make reality would be better. Certainly worked out for the Republicans.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
March 13 2017 23:28 GMT
#142252
On March 14 2017 08:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]

The "results" argument is nonsense. If they wanted "results" then talk to him about how to get them, but that's not the approach they are taking. Because the "results" argument isn't real. It's just a talking point with no substance.

?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.


You think Democrats would be able to get more or less done with Bernie as President as opposed to Trump?

Let's say you're right, Bernie's just telling a story, wouldn't it be better to have him in charge so the "results" Democrats could do the leg work of getting a better system passed?

Well, I didn't say Bernie would've won 2016 over Trump, or that he would have won Congress and Senate for the Democrats either.

But, uh, sure, I imagine having Bernie as a figurehead making big promises that actual policymakers have to make reality would be better. Certainly worked out for the Republicans.

So you're saying that you're glad you voted for Trump to be president.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 23:32:48
March 13 2017 23:31 GMT
#142253
On March 14 2017 08:28 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
?

I mean, during the election cycle people outright asked him how he would punish banks and what his plans for universal healthcare would be, and he hemmed and hawed with his answers.

I would like to believe that people vote for someone promising those things are voting because they want them to actually happen. Not because they liked the story they're being told.


The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.


You think Democrats would be able to get more or less done with Bernie as President as opposed to Trump?

Let's say you're right, Bernie's just telling a story, wouldn't it be better to have him in charge so the "results" Democrats could do the leg work of getting a better system passed?

Well, I didn't say Bernie would've won 2016 over Trump, or that he would have won Congress and Senate for the Democrats either.

But, uh, sure, I imagine having Bernie as a figurehead making big promises that actual policymakers have to make reality would be better. Certainly worked out for the Republicans.

So you're saying that you're glad you voted for Trump to be president.


That's what I'm reading there too. But he's Canadian, so just of that line of thinking.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
March 13 2017 23:40 GMT
#142254
On March 14 2017 08:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 08:28 Jormundr wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:08 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 14 2017 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]

The bank thing was a situation where he didn't mention the same thing he had mentioned several times before. The healthcare bit is particularly funny. Hillary said we couldn't do it because we didn't need another fight on healthcare

"Mission accomplished"

The fairy tale was that Hillary won, and accomplished anything as president.

Cool.

Don't see what Hillary has to do with Bernie being able to deliver on his promises, but cool?


Because the supposition is that she would deliver, she didn't. So Bernie not delivering would be par for the course.

Well, that's a stunning endorsement then. Vote for Bernie because he's as bad a candidate as the one you despise.


Except he's not telling us healthcare isn't a right, that children escaping peril should be sent back to send a message to their parents, Honduras, taking 10's of millions from Wall Street, etc..

I don't accept your argument that he wouldn't get results, but my point is that even if that were the case, he's still better.

It's not like there's some alternative "results oriented" Democrat out there that they should instead be rallying around.


So yeah, vote for the guy telling the best story then. I don't doubt that he could win, Trump ran and won with the same principle.


You think Democrats would be able to get more or less done with Bernie as President as opposed to Trump?

Let's say you're right, Bernie's just telling a story, wouldn't it be better to have him in charge so the "results" Democrats could do the leg work of getting a better system passed?

Well, I didn't say Bernie would've won 2016 over Trump, or that he would have won Congress and Senate for the Democrats either.

But, uh, sure, I imagine having Bernie as a figurehead making big promises that actual policymakers have to make reality would be better. Certainly worked out for the Republicans.

So you're saying that you're glad you voted for Trump to be president.


That's what I'm reading there too. But he's Canadian, so just of that line of thinking.

I read it as either complete sarcasm, or an observation that the Republicans are getting some of what they want by putting Trump at their head to make the promises that they can ignore or (perhaps partially) enact at their leisure. Neither of those implies an actual endorsement of Trump or the Republicans' policies.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 00:27:09
March 14 2017 00:02 GMT
#142255
Why do people keep placing opinions on others in this strange manner?


Anyway, I don't see why having a politician promise things that can't be granted is a reason not to vote for them. Did Obama deliver on his promises? Is Guantanamo Bay closed? Are there no more US soldiers fighting in Iraq/the Middle East? Was health care resolved in a satisfying manner without complications (could you keep your doctor and plan)? As if only Republicans make promises that can't be kept.

Voting on politicians is more about character and vision as far as I'm concerned. I'd sooner vote on someone who can represent me and my views of society and its problems, rather than on someone who has the best political skills and adjusts their views as the views of certain demographics change. And in terms of feasibility, plans presented in a campaign speech or ad will always differ from what is implemented due to the reality of negotiations and thoroughness of actually writing out the laws, so that's hardly a worry.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 00:06:17
March 14 2017 00:03 GMT
#142256
Bernie as president would have at least been functional and he'd nominate people to all the positions. Certainly would have been less exciting until he started proposing policies


as shown through stats. Most presidents fulfill most of their promises.its like 73 percent.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 00:45:34
March 14 2017 00:32 GMT
#142257
On March 14 2017 09:02 a_flayer wrote:
Why do people keep placing opinions on others in this strange manner?


Anyway, I don't see why having a politician promise things that can't be granted is a reason not to vote for them. Did Obama deliver on his promises? Is Guantanamo Bay closed? Are there no more US soldiers fighting in Iraq/the Middle East? Was health care resolved in a satisfying manner without complications (could you keep your doctor and plan)? As if only Republicans make promises that can't be kept.

Voting on politicians is more about character and vision as far as I'm concerned. I'd sooner vote on someone who can represent me and my views of society and its problems, rather than on someone who has the best political skills and adjusts their views as the views of certain demographics change. And in terms of feasibility, plans presented in a campaign speech or ad will always differ from what is implemented due to the reality of negotiations and thoroughness of actually writing out the laws, so that's hardly a worry.


there are many plausible ways to decide how to place a vote. and of course there'es no requirement that you even have a reasonable system.
Personally, I dislike promising things that are unachievable, as it feels dishonest.

I dislike the idea of someone who's just parroting my ideas of what's wrong, because I want them to be thorough and methodical and make sure things actually ARE problems, and not just errant perceptions.

there's a difference between promising the unachievable, and promising the difficult but plausible.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 00:58:28
March 14 2017 00:56 GMT
#142258
Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is in West Virginia showing Trump voters agree with the idea that healthcare is a right. Now if only Democrats could be as brave as the Trump delegate and say it out loud.

EDIT: Though they're more likely to watch that and think "Hmm, maybe if we grew rat tails..."
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 00:58:37
March 14 2017 00:57 GMT
#142259
Sanders has done more for the Dems in 4 months, than they have for themselves in four years.

The Justice Department is requesting more time to respond to a congressional inquiry into President Donald Trump's unproven assertion that he was wiretapped by his predecessor.

The department had been expected to provide a response by Monday to the House Intelligence Committee, which has made Trump's wiretapping claims part of a bigger investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

But spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores says in a statement Monday that the department has asked for more time to "review the request in compliance with the governing legal authorities and to determine what if any responsive documents may exist."

Trump tweeted earlier this month that President Barack Obama had ordered him to be wiretapped. He presented no evidence, and the former intelligence director said last week that the claim was false.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-14 01:40:59
March 14 2017 01:02 GMT
#142260
On March 14 2017 09:56 GreenHorizons wrote:
Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is in West Virginia showing Trump voters agree with the idea that healthcare is a right. Now if only Democrats could be as brave as the Trump delegate and say it out loud.

EDIT: Though they're more likely to watch that and think "Hmm, maybe if we grew rat tails..."



interestingly Mark Cuban was in SXSW arguing that there should be a constitutional amendment guaranteeing that healthcare is a right. I'm an idiot. thought it was on diff channel.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Prev 1 7111 7112 7113 7114 7115 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
02:00
Ro24 Group D
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Airneanach127
Liquipedia
IntoTheTV X SOOP
20:00
Premier - Final Day
WardiTV604
TaKeTV 388
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech127
BRAT_OK 70
MindelVK 33
EmSc Tv 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyun 39
HiyA 34
ggaemo 17
yabsab 14
Dota 2
qojqva3304
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2085
gobbtv179
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox395
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu328
Khaldor275
Other Games
tarik_tv5316
summit1g2634
Grubby2503
Liquid`RaSZi1967
singsing1651
FrodaN1595
PiGStarcraft244
Fuzer 180
QueenE116
Mew2King92
NeuroSwarm37
Railgan27
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1150
gamesdonequick642
Counter-Strike
PGL94
StarCraft 2
angryscii 31
EmSc Tv 16
EmSc2Tv 16
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 20
• Hupsaiya 12
• Reevou 8
• maralekos6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 38
• FirePhoenix11
• HerbMon 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV402
League of Legends
• Nemesis2419
• Jankos1856
Other Games
• imaqtpie1018
• Shiphtur242
• tFFMrPink 13
Upcoming Events
BSL
35m
Cross vs Puma
Artosis vs Spine
Replay Cast
3h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 16h
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
5 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-06
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.