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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 13 2017 19:21 GMT
#142201
White House press secretary Sean Spicer struggled Monday to say what’s real.

During a tense exchange with NBC News’ Peter Alexander, President Donald Trump’s top spokesman sidestepped a series of pointed questions about whether things the president has said are “real” or “phony.”

Trump has said the jobs reports are both — they were fake when they were positive during President Barack Obama’s administration but are “very real now” that Trump is in the White House.

That fantastical logic led to direct questions Monday about whether the president’s explosive, evidence-free charge that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower during the presidential campaign and his unsubstantiated claim that millions voted illegally for Hillary Clinton in the presidential election should be believed.

“If he’s not joking, of course,” Spicer said about when Trump should be trusted. “Every time that he speaks authoritatively — that he speaks, he’s speaking as president of the United States.”

Spicer maintained Trump’s position that the jobs reports “are very real now” but wouldn’t comment on the veracity of Trump’s wiretapping allegation.

“He doesn’t really think that President Obama went up and tapped his phone personally,” Spicer said instead when asked a yes-or-no question about whether Trump’s charge was real.

As for Trump’s baseless claim that millions voted illegally against him, “Yes,” that’s real, Spicer said, “and he still believes that. He does believe it.”

Spicer has said the earlier Congressional Budget Office projection for Obamacare repeal confirmed that it was bad for the economy. But the White House and GOP allies have already begun casting doubt about the accuracy of the CBO projection on the Republican replacement plan.

“This is not about what my understanding or my belief of the CBO is,” Spicer said. “The last time they did this, they were wildly off, and the number keeps declining.”

For his part, Spicer at one point told Alexander that “yes,” when Trump speaks Americans can trust it’s real, although he wouldn't clarify any specific instance.

Asked about the jobs report, “I think the difference is the president was talking then and now about job creation,” Spicer suggested.

And the CBO? “The number they issued in 2016 was 2[4] million people. The actual number is 10.4 [million],” Spicer said, referring to the projection and actual number of people enrolled in Obamacare plans. “That’s not a question of our credibility. It’s a question of theirs.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3526 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 19:26:28
March 13 2017 19:23 GMT
#142202
Trying to get straight answers from Spicer is like arguing with O'Brien from the Inner Party, yeesh.

Also this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/13/sean-spicer-racism-confrontation-indian-woman
Summary - a non-white woman was bugging Sean Spicer after seeing him in public, and he responded “Such a great country that allows you to be here.”
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 13 2017 19:27 GMT
#142203
On March 14 2017 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 04:00 Danglars wrote:
On March 14 2017 03:18 LightSpectra wrote:
You've just leapt into a fire of wild assumptions there. I have no idea what (if any) illegal connections Trump has to the Kremlin, and I'm not making any assumptions. I just think it should be investigated. If there's nothing bad there, then those "russophobic" Democrats will look like fools. If there's something bad, then something should be done about it. I don't see how anybody can argue against this unless they're Trump supporters and terrified there's something bad waiting to be discovered.

By the way, I did not vote for Clinton, and I do in fact think she should've been prosecuted over the email server.

Nobody's waiting for an investigation, have you even been listening? They've been content to level allegations in their absence. Maybe you personally prefer to think Clinton was bad enough for starters, but the obvious move is to press for an investigation and leave the daily articles about allegedly sinister dealings for Breitbart. If you've missed the last two months, I have very little sympathy. I am looking for honest people that can understand the faux prosecutorial briefs are not news stories, and do great damage to future results of investigations, should the wildest accusations prove true. Honestly, I don't know how seriously I can take anyone that purports to call certain things wild accusations under common understanding of the term, and will not agree to the same standard for their own side when the original posts illustrate the same.


Allegations and accusations before the investigation's complete, that's just Tuesday in today's America. I'm not sure why Trump-Kremlin in particular is making you explode with rage. Did you feel equally as mad when Trump made allegations about being wiretapped by Obama?

It'd be nice if the GOP shared your opinion though, "let the investigation happen and then we'll talk afterwards." Please write to your congresspeople and let them know that you want the investigation to get on with it.

What's "my side"?

We'll wait until the other side gets their act together? That's the best you can do? Ok. I really can't understand your personal views if they're in one box and your judgment of other actors is in a separate box. I mean, are those really your personal views, or just posturing because you don't really believe she should be prosecuted and know she won't really be prosecuted so there's no harm in pretending to support them? I'll let Trump make the allegation that FISA ongoing wiretaps and expanded sharing principles (both facts) led to the leaks (his allegation) because it's starting an investigation/interest in an investigation. He's endured all these thinly sourced, Russia Russia Russia, 24/7 news cycles since inauguration. You can't see it, or refuse to comment on it, I have no idea. "Elected on the back of a foreign agent" you say? You've been listening to too much fake news, or never considered the real downsides to the Hillary vote before not voting for her.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3526 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 19:43:51
March 13 2017 19:32 GMT
#142204
No, I legitimately believe Clinton should've been prosecuted for her handling of the email server. In my job, if I respond to a work email with my personal address, I'd be fired for impropriety -- and I don't even do anything remotely close to national security.

You seem to be assuming I'm a Democrat. I'm really not. I hate both the Dems and GOP right now. I just think Trump is more dangerous and bad right now, hence the majority of my posts in this thread are critical of him.

I'll let Trump make the allegation that FISA ongoing wiretaps and expanded sharing principles (both facts) led to the leaks (his allegation) because it's starting an investigation/interest in an investigation.

So the Democrats make allegations that Trump is connected to Russia, and that drives you up the wall because "leave the daily articles about allegedly sinister dealings for Breitbart"; but when Trump makes unproved allegations against Obama, you give him a pass because it's getting people interested in an investigation? Double standard much?

Please, don't make me laugh. If the tables were exactly reversed you would be crying treason against our current president and "wait and see" to the outgoing.

"Elected on the back of a foreign agent" you say? You've been listening to too much fake news, or never considered the real downsides to the Hillary vote before not voting for her.


What the hell does this even mean, I "never considered the real downsides to the Hillary vote before not voting for her"? If I liked her I would've voted for her, so clearly I've considered that I don't like her, right?

I suppose you're making some reference to the foreign donations going in to the Clinton Foundation, but, um, okay? Who cares? She lost, she has no power, it's over. Just because I'm not swinging a rage-boner at Clinton every five seconds doesn't mean I'm a Democratic partisan. Nobody cares about Hillary Clinton anymore.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 13 2017 19:57 GMT
#142205
On March 14 2017 04:27 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2017 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
On March 14 2017 04:00 Danglars wrote:
On March 14 2017 03:18 LightSpectra wrote:
You've just leapt into a fire of wild assumptions there. I have no idea what (if any) illegal connections Trump has to the Kremlin, and I'm not making any assumptions. I just think it should be investigated. If there's nothing bad there, then those "russophobic" Democrats will look like fools. If there's something bad, then something should be done about it. I don't see how anybody can argue against this unless they're Trump supporters and terrified there's something bad waiting to be discovered.

By the way, I did not vote for Clinton, and I do in fact think she should've been prosecuted over the email server.

Nobody's waiting for an investigation, have you even been listening? They've been content to level allegations in their absence. Maybe you personally prefer to think Clinton was bad enough for starters, but the obvious move is to press for an investigation and leave the daily articles about allegedly sinister dealings for Breitbart. If you've missed the last two months, I have very little sympathy. I am looking for honest people that can understand the faux prosecutorial briefs are not news stories, and do great damage to future results of investigations, should the wildest accusations prove true. Honestly, I don't know how seriously I can take anyone that purports to call certain things wild accusations under common understanding of the term, and will not agree to the same standard for their own side when the original posts illustrate the same.


Allegations and accusations before the investigation's complete, that's just Tuesday in today's America. I'm not sure why Trump-Kremlin in particular is making you explode with rage. Did you feel equally as mad when Trump made allegations about being wiretapped by Obama?

It'd be nice if the GOP shared your opinion though, "let the investigation happen and then we'll talk afterwards." Please write to your congresspeople and let them know that you want the investigation to get on with it.

What's "my side"?

We'll wait until the other side gets their act together? That's the best you can do? Ok. I really can't understand your personal views if they're in one box and your judgment of other actors is in a separate box. I mean, are those really your personal views, or just posturing because you don't really believe she should be prosecuted and know she won't really be prosecuted so there's no harm in pretending to support them? I'll let Trump make the allegation that FISA ongoing wiretaps and expanded sharing principles (both facts) led to the leaks (his allegation) because it's starting an investigation/interest in an investigation. He's endured all these thinly sourced, Russia Russia Russia, 24/7 news cycles since inauguration. You can't see it, or refuse to comment on it, I have no idea. "Elected on the back of a foreign agent" you say? You've been listening to too much fake news, or never considered the real downsides to the Hillary vote before not voting for her.


Love the glossing over of Trump's wiretap tweets (which btw are outright lies). Must be hard to come up with logic to support some of the things he says.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 20:06:47
March 13 2017 20:00 GMT
#142206
can we say conflict of interest?




also Spicer trying to do more word Linguistics than Jaques Derrida ever did.

(CNN)The White House on Monday walked back a key point of President Donald Trump's unsubstantiated allegation that President Barack Obama wiretapped his phones in Trump Tower during the 2016 election.

Namely, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump wasn't referring to wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping.
"I think there's no question that the Obama administration, that there were actions about surveillance and other activities that occurred in the 2016 election," Spicer said. "The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities."

Wiretapping is a narrowly defined surveillance activity that involves tapping into "a telephone or telegram wire in order to get information," according to Merriam-Webster dictionary.
Spicer also said that Trump was referring to the Obama administration broadly -- and not accusing Obama of personal involvement -- when he tweeted that "Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower" and accused Obama of being a "bad" or "sick guy."


http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/politics/sean-spicer-donald-trump-wiretapping/index.html
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 13 2017 20:14 GMT
#142207
A Texas lawmaker has filed a satirical bill to regulate “masturbatory emissions” as a riposte to a slew of anti-abortion measures advocated by the state’s Republican politicians.

The proposed act takes the language and concepts used by conservatives to limit abortions and swaps the sexes.

It calls for a $100 fine for “emissions outside of a woman’s vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility”, which “will be considered an act against an unborn child, and failing to preserve the sanctity of life”.

It also requires the creation of a “masturbatory assistance registry” of not-for-profit organisations and hospitals able to provide “fully-abstinent encouragement counseling, supervising physicians for masturbatory emissions, and storage for the semen”.

The bill from Jessica Farrar, a Democratic representative from Houston, is called the Man’s Right to Know Act – a reference to legislation known as the Woman’s Right to Know Act which previously passed into Texas law. That forces doctors to perform a sonogram, make audio of the heartbeat available, and describe the fetus to women considering an abortion at least 24 hours before the procedure takes place.

It is also the name of a state health department pamphlet that emphasises – and, according to critics, exaggerates and misleads readers about – the risks of abortions, and steers women towards alternatives.

Farrar’s bill requires the creation of a booklet which must be reviewed by doctors with male patients and which “must contain medical information related to the benefits and concerns of a man seeking a vasectomy, Viagra prescription, or a colonoscopy. The booklet must contain artistic illustrations of each procedure.”

It also demands an attending physician “administer a medically-unnecessary digital rectal exam … before administering an elective vasectomy or colonoscopy procedure, or prescribing Viagra”.

Farrar said in a statement: “Although HB 4260 is satirical, there is nothing funny about current healthcare restrictions for women and the very real legislation that is proposed every legislative session.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 20:36:10
March 13 2017 20:26 GMT
#142208
Text of the CBO report on Republicare

Highlights:
good news:decreases the deficit by ~323b over 10 years (so $33b/ yr)

bad news: 14m lose insurance by 2018, 24m lose insurance by 2026, death spiral
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 20:28:04
March 13 2017 20:27 GMT
#142209
Swing state governors are going to go apeshit.


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 13 2017 20:34 GMT
#142210
That's a potential 14 million votes you're riling up against you. But don't forget; according to Republicans they aren't losing coverage. Rather they are making a choice...
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 13 2017 20:38 GMT
#142211


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 13 2017 20:45 GMT
#142212
How does it work with the age dependence in practice? Is it meant that "if you get insurance while old and previously uninsured, you pay more", or is it "you pay more as you get older"? The first would actually be rather sensible (you are supposed to be insured from young age, the whole point of the system is that you are insured all the time, not just when you start getting sicker), while the second one would be outright idiotic.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 13 2017 20:46 GMT
#142213
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 13 2017 20:49 GMT
#142214
On March 14 2017 05:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/841385286441553920


Dont forget "we won't cut Medicaid" and "your premiums will go down! "
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 13 2017 20:49 GMT
#142215
On March 14 2017 05:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/841385286441553920


All "real Americans" will have insurance.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 13 2017 20:51 GMT
#142216
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/sfl-florida-house-medical-marijuana-bill-story.html

As an interventional pain physician for Spine and Wellness Centers of America, I treat acute and chronic pain patients throughout South Florida in hospitals, skilled nursing facilities and the outpatient setting. I personally believe in a holistic approach to manage pain emphasizing wellness and function.

All five of our doctors are certified medical cannabis recommending physicians with the goal of maximizing patient’s quality of life with patient specific tailored treatment plans. As a patient advocate I believe that medical cannabis can and should play a role in patient care. I would like to comment on the recent piece of pending legislation offered by State Rep. Ray Rodrigues (HB 1397.)

The proposed measure examines many of the complex facets of implementing new medical marijuana laws and seems to take this matter with the seriousness it deserves. Seventy one percent of Florida voters overwhelmingly supported Amendment 2, the measure to legalize medical marijuana for the sick under the care of a physician.

The proposal seems to ensure that patients who are genuinely ill and who, under the treatment of a physician, have access to safe, tested and relatively pure medical cannabis. Nonetheless, the bill maintains the 90-day patient/doctor requirement which is nonsensical. I have had patients who have passed away before the 90-day relationship requirement was met. I have current patients who are suffering due to their terminal illness or debilitating condition who are not able to get relief with medical cannabis because I have not been their physician for 90 days. Yet, I am able to prescribe any medication including opioids with the potential for overdose and uncomfortable side effects. This is truly disturbing and unjust.
Life?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 20:52:27
March 13 2017 20:52 GMT
#142217
On March 14 2017 05:45 opisska wrote:
How does it work with the age dependence in practice? Is it meant that "if you get insurance while old and previously uninsured, you pay more", or is it "you pay more as you get older"? The first would actually be rather sensible (you are supposed to be insured from young age, the whole point of the system is that you are insured all the time, not just when you start getting sicker), while the second one would be outright idiotic.


The half is cuts to.meducaid which a lot of Senior Citizens have as secondary to Medicare, the other is tax cuts.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-13 20:53:28
March 13 2017 20:53 GMT
#142218
Would it be legal to make a website using some ones name + an adjective under "free speech"?
Life?
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
March 13 2017 20:57 GMT
#142219
On March 14 2017 05:34 On_Slaught wrote:
That's a potential 14 million votes you're riling up against you. But don't forget; according to Republicans they aren't losing coverage. Rather they are making a choice...


They should gain support among some of those people. Presumably the people who are relatively young and healthy whose premiums are higher than their actuarial risk. They no longer have to deal with the mandate to buy insurance which is why higher prices are predicted for those who remain insured. Republicans might have a bigger problem with the insured, rather than the uninsured.
日本語が分かりますか
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 13 2017 21:06 GMT
#142220
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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