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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
While it's odd for an insurance company to not understand how a condition "appeared", it's probably just a tactic from them, as anyone in the health business knows it can takes ages to figure out what some things are, due ot how difficult to diagnose they are.
and fraud is a thing that happens on occasion and there are no clear clinical tests for some things, so I can understand them trying to probe to see how true it is. sadly some things are tricky.
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They understand, they just don’t want to pay. If you get into a car accident and your insurance agrees to pay for medical expenses, they will still fight you tooth and nail if a complication is found a year later.
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On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation. They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay. On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease". i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real" We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up? And we are in the good state for health insurance. That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer.
Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market.
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That's the great advantage of single payer, the particulars of who pays for what all become moot, so the administrative costs are lower.
I wonder what the republican base would think of a partial single payer, that covers all the cheap stuff fully, but doesn't cover stuff that's too pricey. that's always what I think of when I imagine what a conservative plan might look like.
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well we are still waiting for danglars to say whether he supports a universal healthcare system
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On March 09 2017 04:09 IgnE wrote:
well we are still waiting for danglars to say whether he supports a universal healthcare system
Give it a rest or do a forum search. I already gave my last on this topic for the time being, for reasons stated in the post.
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If anyone comes across something that covers what the average health insurance premiums by state were prior to the ACA I'd be interested to see it to run some comparisons with housing cost effects to see if similar issues apply, and could be affecting health care costs.
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On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation. They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay. On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease". i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real" We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up? And we are in the good state for health insurance. That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer. Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market.
LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous...
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Medical billing reform is certainly something tha'ts much needed, there's way too much nonsense and questionable stuff there. I remember the report by that Brill guy covering it.
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The House Republicans are serious about pushing this shit through and guilting senators using Trump's bully pulpit.
Fuck it, pass the thing. The only way people will learn is by the inevitable suffering that will follow (which ofc will disproportionately affect Trump supporters). Just wait for the hospitals to close and elderly who can't get coverage.
Like Krauthammer said, this could kill the Trump administration single handedly. I'd go a step further and say it could kill the Republican party as we know it (something we know xDaunt wants and expects.. this could be your catalyst).
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On March 09 2017 02:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 01:38 Mohdoo wrote:On March 08 2017 23:12 Danglars wrote:On March 08 2017 22:30 LightSpectra wrote:On March 08 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:On March 08 2017 06:21 Mohdoo wrote:
Its really freaking weird to be reminded that there are still republicans out there who subscribe to this idea that not everyone gets healthcare and that you have to deserve it by some weird metric. So ancient. The idea that American citizens should die from things our medicine can fix is just sad. We are so much better than that. I hate being reminded that the debate on health care is so poisoned that nobody can talk about costs, implementation, and structure without resorting to the most base emotional arguments. Some kind of holy grail religious devotion that includes an individual mandate and massive entitlement spending amounting to huge portions of GDP/federal budget. Yeah, you don't like private market plans, we get it. But don't pretend the other choice is this mixed system that kills the good parts of having a market and keeps all the bad parts of having intense government regulatory involvement. But yeah, every time the subject comes up, it's all Republicans wanna kill grandma and the homeless. Absolutely pathetic. That's because 50,000 people each year *actually are* dying to treatable medical ailments that they can't get because they don't have and can't afford health insurance. If this were the 1860s and universal health care had never been tried, all of this debate over how to get everybody insurance would be sensible. Except this is 2017, this is an easily solved problem, it's been solved for half a century or more in Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Those countries have universal healthcare AND they spend less per capita AND the quality of their healthcare is better on average than those on Medicare/Medicaid. The only reason to not go for that solution is either complete ignorance about the current state of the world, or Social Darwininism (i.e. actually wanting those 50k people each year to die because they deserve it for being poor), or because those politicians are getting ridiculously wealthy off of the profits from those private insurance companies. For all three of those reasons, the politicians that actively impede problem-solving deserve all of the spit and vinegar they get over killing grandma and the homeless. Basically case in point of what I was talking about. It's worth talking like Mohdoo did because you're supposed to abandon logic and reason and go after illustrating and reillustrating the problem in purely emotional terms ... GOP thinks people should die, don't think people 'deserve' it. Yeah, no thanks. I see where the tide's going and Obamacare was a great plan to collapse the remaining good aspects of a partially working system, so this is probably all for naught long-term. But it is a useful lesson many Republicans will remember for times to come: the debate isn't worth having because hysteria precedes thought. But don't the assumptions you would make regarding healthcare not results in everyone being covered? Its all a matter of defining your boundary conditions and then tweaking from there. My point is that a system that has aspects of "tough luck" regarding access to affordable healthcare is morally deficient. I am saying that this is of course always going to be a cost:benefit analysis for society as a whole. And I am also saying that people should not be dying as a direct or indirect result of not having coverage. My understanding is that you disagree with that. Every perspective on healthcare is going to have a set of pros and cons. I am saying that a system which has "some people will die from not having affordable access to healthcare" is morally deficient. We should be starting from the premise that no one will die as a result of poor or inadequate coverage. Am I incorrect that you do not see that as a necessity? This assumes that healthcare is a thing that you either have or do not have. That is not how it works. Healthcare has diminishing returns, the question can only ever be how much you'll spend for how little improvement. No system ever could offer people sufficient access to healthcare for every value of sufficient.
When people are uninsured, they don't go to the doctor and they don't take care of things they should. I have known multiple people throughout my life who have had conditions they should definitely see a doctor about, but they don't because of the cost.
But I think I am also just not understanding what you're saying. "Every value of sufficient"? I have no idea what you mean by that.
More specifically, my point is that if everyone in our country had the same insurance as I have, thousands of lives would be saved every year. As a country, we should rise to a level of decency where people can be affordably kept alive and healthy. I'm vaguely defining "alive and healthy" as the typical condition you would expect joe shmoe with health insurance and a stable job.
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It is really irritating dealing with medical billing because half of their practices are dangerously close to violating fair debt. Of course it would never be applied to them, but the shit they pull and the lack of information on their invoices borderlines on deceptive. You don’t get to bill me 10 months later for a service you preformed that you misquoted.
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On March 09 2017 04:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation. They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay. On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease". i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real" We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up? And we are in the good state for health insurance. That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer. Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market. LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous...
My wife just last week received a bill for an epidural she had in 2013.
Which sucks because my work partially reimburses my copays, but only for the previous year's bills. That one is now ineligible and I have to pay the whole thing out of pocket.
I cannot even fathom how ordinary folk are supposed to afford anything without insurance, let alone on Medicaid.
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The American Medical Association just announced that it “cannot support” the Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.
The AMA announced its opposition in a letter Wednesday morning, hours before two House committees were set to mark up repeal legislation. It comes one day after a slew of patient advocacy and health industry groups including the American Hospital Association announced they were against the House GOP bill ― and it’s one more sign of political trouble for the Republican repeal effort.
“While we agree that there are problems with the ACA that must be addressed, we cannot support the AHCA as drafted because of the expected decline in health insurance coverage and the potential harm it would cause to vulnerable patient populations,” AMA chief executive James Madara said in the letter.
In the detailed letter, Madara raises objections to the key pillars of the Republican plan, including a rollback of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid expansion. “Medicaid expansion has proven highly successful in providing coverage for lower income individuals,” he said, making a point that a variety of public health researchers have.
Madara also pointed out that the Republican bill would reorient federal financial assistance for people who buy private coverage on their own. Under the Affordable Care Act, the federal government provides more money to people whose incomes are low or insurance costs are high ― in order to establish a guarantee of coverage. Republicans would instead introduce a system of flat tax credits, varying only by age, that would reduce subsidies ― sometimes dramatically ― for poor people and those with high insurance costs.
“We believe credits inversely related to income, rather than age as proposed in the committee’s legislation, not only result in greater numbers of people insured but are a more efficient use of tax-payer resources,” Madara said.
Republicans have suggested that their plan would improve access to health care, in part by stripping away regulations on insurance and thereby reducing premiums. But preliminary analyses of the GOP plan have suggested that it would cause millions to lose coverage and that the trade-off for lower premiums would be higher out-of-pocket costs ― in short, what Madara was saying in his letter.
The AMA is the nation’s largest organization representing physicians. And although it has traditionally promoted itself as an advocate for America’s patients, it is like any other interest group, and spends much of its time looking out for the financial interests of its members. But it’s not clear that, overall, repeal would hurt physician incomes in a meaningful way
The open opposition of so many health care organizations stands in stark contrast to their support of the 2009-10 reform effort that culminated in enactment of the Affordable Care Act.
Source
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On March 09 2017 04:26 Plansix wrote:
It is really irritating dealing with medical billing because half of their practices are dangerously close to violating fair debt. Of course it would never be applied to them, but the shit they pull and the lack of information on their invoices borderlines on deceptive. You don’t get to bill me 10 months later for a service you preformed that you misquoted.
Yea, I have serious qualms with however the hell the insurance company decides how much of your bill to pay. This is something I need to know upfront before I get the procedure, not a year or more later.
Also, I have no idea if this is my particular insurance company's problem or if lots of people have the same experience, but every single medical bill I get is first classified as "Denied: Coverage not available" and I'm billed the whole shebang. I then have to fill out some rote form provided by my insurance company, mail them the form and the bill, and THEN I'll get the real bill after the deductions are made.
I have to do this for Every. Single. Fucking. Bill.
With a wife and two kids, that's about once a week.
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The sad thing Plansix, the other person who gets affected here is the Doctor. They lost money on this because poorer people won't pay that invoice 7 months from now since their insurance didn't want to pay for all of it. Health insurance in it's current form is a scam, but not to the government.
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On March 09 2017 04:25 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 02:45 KwarK wrote:On March 09 2017 01:38 Mohdoo wrote:On March 08 2017 23:12 Danglars wrote:On March 08 2017 22:30 LightSpectra wrote:On March 08 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:On March 08 2017 06:21 Mohdoo wrote:
Its really freaking weird to be reminded that there are still republicans out there who subscribe to this idea that not everyone gets healthcare and that you have to deserve it by some weird metric. So ancient. The idea that American citizens should die from things our medicine can fix is just sad. We are so much better than that. I hate being reminded that the debate on health care is so poisoned that nobody can talk about costs, implementation, and structure without resorting to the most base emotional arguments. Some kind of holy grail religious devotion that includes an individual mandate and massive entitlement spending amounting to huge portions of GDP/federal budget. Yeah, you don't like private market plans, we get it. But don't pretend the other choice is this mixed system that kills the good parts of having a market and keeps all the bad parts of having intense government regulatory involvement. But yeah, every time the subject comes up, it's all Republicans wanna kill grandma and the homeless. Absolutely pathetic. That's because 50,000 people each year *actually are* dying to treatable medical ailments that they can't get because they don't have and can't afford health insurance. If this were the 1860s and universal health care had never been tried, all of this debate over how to get everybody insurance would be sensible. Except this is 2017, this is an easily solved problem, it's been solved for half a century or more in Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Those countries have universal healthcare AND they spend less per capita AND the quality of their healthcare is better on average than those on Medicare/Medicaid. The only reason to not go for that solution is either complete ignorance about the current state of the world, or Social Darwininism (i.e. actually wanting those 50k people each year to die because they deserve it for being poor), or because those politicians are getting ridiculously wealthy off of the profits from those private insurance companies. For all three of those reasons, the politicians that actively impede problem-solving deserve all of the spit and vinegar they get over killing grandma and the homeless. Basically case in point of what I was talking about. It's worth talking like Mohdoo did because you're supposed to abandon logic and reason and go after illustrating and reillustrating the problem in purely emotional terms ... GOP thinks people should die, don't think people 'deserve' it. Yeah, no thanks. I see where the tide's going and Obamacare was a great plan to collapse the remaining good aspects of a partially working system, so this is probably all for naught long-term. But it is a useful lesson many Republicans will remember for times to come: the debate isn't worth having because hysteria precedes thought. But don't the assumptions you would make regarding healthcare not results in everyone being covered? Its all a matter of defining your boundary conditions and then tweaking from there. My point is that a system that has aspects of "tough luck" regarding access to affordable healthcare is morally deficient. I am saying that this is of course always going to be a cost:benefit analysis for society as a whole. And I am also saying that people should not be dying as a direct or indirect result of not having coverage. My understanding is that you disagree with that. Every perspective on healthcare is going to have a set of pros and cons. I am saying that a system which has "some people will die from not having affordable access to healthcare" is morally deficient. We should be starting from the premise that no one will die as a result of poor or inadequate coverage. Am I incorrect that you do not see that as a necessity? This assumes that healthcare is a thing that you either have or do not have. That is not how it works. Healthcare has diminishing returns, the question can only ever be how much you'll spend for how little improvement. No system ever could offer people sufficient access to healthcare for every value of sufficient. When people are uninsured, they don't go to the doctor and they don't take care of things they should. I have known multiple people throughout my life who have had conditions they should definitely see a doctor about, but they don't because of the cost. But I think I am also just not understanding what you're saying. "Every value of sufficient"? I have no idea what you mean by that. More specifically, my point is that if everyone in our country had the same insurance as I have, thousands of lives would be saved every year. As a country, we should rise to a level of decency where people can be affordably kept alive and healthy. I'm vaguely defining "alive and healthy" as the typical condition you would expect joe shmoe with health insurance and a stable job.
Insurance doesn't make your overall healethcare cheaper, it prevents spikes in cost.
if they can't afford to go to a doctor once, they can't afford insurance either.
the problem there isn't unaffordable health insurance, but unaffordable healthcare in general, which is a related, but distinct issue.
what would it cost to give everyone in the country the same insurance you have? where will you get the money for that?
I'm not averse to it personally, though it'd depend of course on what level of healthcare you provide, and the funding plan.
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On March 09 2017 04:28 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +The American Medical Association just announced that it “cannot support” the Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.
The AMA announced its opposition in a letter Wednesday morning, hours before two House committees were set to mark up repeal legislation. It comes one day after a slew of patient advocacy and health industry groups including the American Hospital Association announced they were against the House GOP bill ― and it’s one more sign of political trouble for the Republican repeal effort.
“While we agree that there are problems with the ACA that must be addressed, we cannot support the AHCA as drafted because of the expected decline in health insurance coverage and the potential harm it would cause to vulnerable patient populations,” AMA chief executive James Madara said in the letter.
In the detailed letter, Madara raises objections to the key pillars of the Republican plan, including a rollback of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid expansion. “Medicaid expansion has proven highly successful in providing coverage for lower income individuals,” he said, making a point that a variety of public health researchers have.
Madara also pointed out that the Republican bill would reorient federal financial assistance for people who buy private coverage on their own. Under the Affordable Care Act, the federal government provides more money to people whose incomes are low or insurance costs are high ― in order to establish a guarantee of coverage. Republicans would instead introduce a system of flat tax credits, varying only by age, that would reduce subsidies ― sometimes dramatically ― for poor people and those with high insurance costs.
“We believe credits inversely related to income, rather than age as proposed in the committee’s legislation, not only result in greater numbers of people insured but are a more efficient use of tax-payer resources,” Madara said.
Republicans have suggested that their plan would improve access to health care, in part by stripping away regulations on insurance and thereby reducing premiums. But preliminary analyses of the GOP plan have suggested that it would cause millions to lose coverage and that the trade-off for lower premiums would be higher out-of-pocket costs ― in short, what Madara was saying in his letter.
The AMA is the nation’s largest organization representing physicians. And although it has traditionally promoted itself as an advocate for America’s patients, it is like any other interest group, and spends much of its time looking out for the financial interests of its members. But it’s not clear that, overall, repeal would hurt physician incomes in a meaningful way
The open opposition of so many health care organizations stands in stark contrast to their support of the 2009-10 reform effort that culminated in enactment of the Affordable Care Act. Source
AHA came out yesterday, AMA came out today, that really just leaves AHIP.
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On March 09 2017 04:28 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 04:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation. They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay. On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:
[quote]
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease". i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real" We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up? And we are in the good state for health insurance. That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer. Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market. LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous... My wife just last week received a bill for an epidural she had in 2013. Which sucks because my work partially reimburses my copays, but only for the previous year's bills. That one is now ineligible and I have to pay the whole thing out of pocket. I cannot even fathom how ordinary folk are supposed to afford anything without insurance, let alone on Medicaid.
You should fight that if it is a lot and not a burden for you to do so. They have pass beyond two periods of medical coverage at this point and sending an invoice that old. It takes a special level of audacity to send a 2 year old invoice and expect it to be paid. At minimum I would demand they reduce the charge.
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On March 09 2017 04:28 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2017 04:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:
No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.
To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation. They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay. On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:
[quote]
why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving. On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care. This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8. damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough. Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease". i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real" We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up? And we are in the good state for health insurance. That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer. Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market. LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous... My wife just last week received a bill for an epidural she had in 2013. Which sucks because my work partially reimburses my copays, but only for the previous year's bills. That one is now ineligible and I have to pay the whole thing out of pocket. I cannot even fathom how ordinary folk are supposed to afford anything without insurance, let alone on Medicaid.
I've found fighting over bills can be fairly successful, though it's of course a fair bit of work. but you can sometimes talk them down, or convince them something was billed under the wrong coding number (i've had things billed that asserted more time than was actually done).
A number of laws have been passed lately on medical billing reform, don't know them offhand but it's definitely a topic that's been getting attention.
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