• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:42
CET 00:42
KST 08:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA15
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2062 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7083

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7081 7082 7083 7084 7085 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 19:42:19
March 08 2017 19:40 GMT
#141641
My opening is always “Can you please explain to me why you sent this invoice X months after my appointment?”

And then “Why didn’t you just tell me you didn’t anticipate this being paid for by my insurance? I may not have gotten the work don’t if I knew it wasn’t covered.”

On March 09 2017 04:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The sad thing Plansix, the other person who gets affected here is the Doctor. They lost money on this because poorer people won't pay that invoice 7 months from now since their insurance didn't want to pay for all of it. Health insurance in it's current form is a scam, but not to the government.

I completely agree. But they are not going to provide me with better information on what is covered if I pay everything every time they send that invoice. This industry was allowed to get this terrible because people didn’t fight this bullshit bills.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
March 08 2017 19:41 GMT
#141642
On March 09 2017 04:31 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:25 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 09 2017 02:45 KwarK wrote:
On March 09 2017 01:38 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 08 2017 23:12 Danglars wrote:
On March 08 2017 22:30 LightSpectra wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On March 08 2017 06:21 Mohdoo wrote:
Its really freaking weird to be reminded that there are still republicans out there who subscribe to this idea that not everyone gets healthcare and that you have to deserve it by some weird metric. So ancient. The idea that American citizens should die from things our medicine can fix is just sad. We are so much better than that.

I hate being reminded that the debate on health care is so poisoned that nobody can talk about costs, implementation, and structure without resorting to the most base emotional arguments. Some kind of holy grail religious devotion that includes an individual mandate and massive entitlement spending amounting to huge portions of GDP/federal budget. Yeah, you don't like private market plans, we get it. But don't pretend the other choice is this mixed system that kills the good parts of having a market and keeps all the bad parts of having intense government regulatory involvement. But yeah, every time the subject comes up, it's all Republicans wanna kill grandma and the homeless. Absolutely pathetic.


That's because 50,000 people each year *actually are* dying to treatable medical ailments that they can't get because they don't have and can't afford health insurance.

If this were the 1860s and universal health care had never been tried, all of this debate over how to get everybody insurance would be sensible. Except this is 2017, this is an easily solved problem, it's been solved for half a century or more in Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Those countries have universal healthcare AND they spend less per capita AND the quality of their healthcare is better on average than those on Medicare/Medicaid.

The only reason to not go for that solution is either complete ignorance about the current state of the world, or Social Darwininism (i.e. actually wanting those 50k people each year to die because they deserve it for being poor), or because those politicians are getting ridiculously wealthy off of the profits from those private insurance companies.

For all three of those reasons, the politicians that actively impede problem-solving deserve all of the spit and vinegar they get over killing grandma and the homeless.

Basically case in point of what I was talking about. It's worth talking like Mohdoo did because you're supposed to abandon logic and reason and go after illustrating and reillustrating the problem in purely emotional terms ... GOP thinks people should die, don't think people 'deserve' it. Yeah, no thanks. I see where the tide's going and Obamacare was a great plan to collapse the remaining good aspects of a partially working system, so this is probably all for naught long-term. But it is a useful lesson many Republicans will remember for times to come: the debate isn't worth having because hysteria precedes thought.


But don't the assumptions you would make regarding healthcare not results in everyone being covered? Its all a matter of defining your boundary conditions and then tweaking from there. My point is that a system that has aspects of "tough luck" regarding access to affordable healthcare is morally deficient. I am saying that this is of course always going to be a cost:benefit analysis for society as a whole. And I am also saying that people should not be dying as a direct or indirect result of not having coverage. My understanding is that you disagree with that.

Every perspective on healthcare is going to have a set of pros and cons. I am saying that a system which has "some people will die from not having affordable access to healthcare" is morally deficient. We should be starting from the premise that no one will die as a result of poor or inadequate coverage. Am I incorrect that you do not see that as a necessity?

This assumes that healthcare is a thing that you either have or do not have. That is not how it works. Healthcare has diminishing returns, the question can only ever be how much you'll spend for how little improvement. No system ever could offer people sufficient access to healthcare for every value of sufficient.


When people are uninsured, they don't go to the doctor and they don't take care of things they should. I have known multiple people throughout my life who have had conditions they should definitely see a doctor about, but they don't because of the cost.

But I think I am also just not understanding what you're saying. "Every value of sufficient"? I have no idea what you mean by that.

More specifically, my point is that if everyone in our country had the same insurance as I have, thousands of lives would be saved every year. As a country, we should rise to a level of decency where people can be affordably kept alive and healthy. I'm vaguely defining "alive and healthy" as the typical condition you would expect joe shmoe with health insurance and a stable job.


Insurance doesn't make your overall healethcare cheaper, it prevents spikes in cost.
if they can't afford to go to a doctor once, they can't afford insurance either.
the problem there isn't unaffordable health insurance, but unaffordable healthcare in general, which is a related, but distinct issue.

what would it cost to give everyone in the country the same insurance you have? where will you get the money for that?
I'm not averse to it personally, though it'd depend of course on what level of healthcare you provide, and the funding plan.


Right, and I understand that. I am saying that if someone suspects they may be sick, and they choose not to because of the cost (and we assume this is a normal person who is fine with a 20 dollar co-pay or whatever), that needs to be fixed with priority. I see it as a fundamental flaw in our society for allowing that to happen.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1890 Posts
March 08 2017 19:41 GMT
#141643
On March 09 2017 04:33 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:28 LightSpectra wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:15 Plansix wrote:

No it did not. The condition was discovered about four years ago, but she likely suffered from it her entire life on different levels. It is manageable, but needs to be managed by her and her doctor. It is "preexisting" now, I guess. I am not at all confident we could obtain insurance outside of MA without the ACA in place.

To due life being life, she has switch employers a couple of times since we have been together. The quality of insurance and how willing they are to accept this condition as real varies. There were a couple times I considered getting at attorney to stop them from constantly demanding proof the condition exists.


why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving

We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving.

On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care.

This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8.


damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough.

Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation.

They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay.

On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving.

[quote]
This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8.


damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough.


Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease".


i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real"

We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up?

And we are in the good state for health insurance.

That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer.

Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market.


LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous...


My wife just last week received a bill for an epidural she had in 2013.

Which sucks because my work partially reimburses my copays, but only for the previous year's bills. That one is now ineligible and I have to pay the whole thing out of pocket.

I cannot even fathom how ordinary folk are supposed to afford anything without insurance, let alone on Medicaid.

You should fight that if it is a lot and not a burden for you to do so. They have pass beyond two periods of medical coverage at this point and sending an invoice that old. It takes a special level of audacity to send a 2 year old invoice and expect it to be paid. At minimum I would demand they reduce the charge.


I have no experience with haggling over medical bills, but I guess it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose right...
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 19:46 GMT
#141644
On March 09 2017 04:41 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:33 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:28 LightSpectra wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:03 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:49 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:24 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 00:17 dankobanana wrote:
[quote]

why not just move to Canada or EU and live a better life? its what I dont get about Americans. The rest of the world exists and you can get a better and/or cheaper healthcare (or education) by just moving

We would if it wasn’t for my wife’s band and my family. But we talk about it a lot, since this country is sort of garbage and not improving.

On March 09 2017 00:22 dankobanana wrote:
I have Chrons disease and ever since I was diagnosed I've been a part of online communities of people who share my illness for information and help. I have to say I've always felt great pitty for Americans who had to think about money that much while having a chronic disease. I would have never been able to be a productive part of society if we didnt have universal health care.

This is the other aspect of health care. If it is covered, you can be productive. If not, then you can’t get treatment and you seek alternative means for supporting yourself. That includes disability and section 8.


damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough.

Mostly it was to send a letter with a law office’s letter head to the health insurance provider. Luckily threatening to seek counsel was enough for them to stop asking for documentation.

They don’t care if it exists or not. It is just additional resistance to obtaining treatment. If they make it harder, my wife won’t go to the doctor as often. And then they don’t have to pay.

On March 09 2017 03:46 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:42 Ghostcom wrote:
On March 09 2017 03:37 IgnE wrote:
[quote]

damn dude you went to great lengths to not name the condition but then you talk about getting a lawyer to argue for you about whether the condition is real. i have heard doctors tell me that they refer to fibromyalgia as "sad sack disease" amongst themselves in the office. must be rough.


Off the top of my head there are at least 3 other (named) diseases which it could plausible be - not to mention the all-encompassing box of "functional disease".


i mostly was saying that it must be rough to constantly battle with doctors/insurance about whether your condition is "real"

We never have to fight with the doctor, but the insurance company cannot understand how the condition just “appeared”. AKA, why are we paying for this if this same doctor didn’t find this 10 years ago? clearly this is fraud or made up?

And we are in the good state for health insurance.

That's the wonderful thing about having a proper mandated healthcare. The insurance provider never comes to me for something. Everything is handled by the care provider (be it doctor or hospital). If the insurance wants proof of something they bug the doctor who send them the bill. Not the customer.

Welcome to US garbage insurance, where you get invoices sent to you 7 months after your appointment because your insurance decided not to cover part of your blood work. Any other business that would be a write off, but not in the US medical market.


LOL This... I have health insurance through my company, and I picked the really good one. I swear, 7 months later I got an invoice for blood work they only paid for half... Now I have to pay my doctor another $150... It's ridiculous...


My wife just last week received a bill for an epidural she had in 2013.

Which sucks because my work partially reimburses my copays, but only for the previous year's bills. That one is now ineligible and I have to pay the whole thing out of pocket.

I cannot even fathom how ordinary folk are supposed to afford anything without insurance, let alone on Medicaid.

You should fight that if it is a lot and not a burden for you to do so. They have pass beyond two periods of medical coverage at this point and sending an invoice that old. It takes a special level of audacity to send a 2 year old invoice and expect it to be paid. At minimum I would demand they reduce the charge.


I have no experience with haggling over medical bills, but I guess it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose right...

I don’t know what state you are in or how your coverage works, but most people’s coverage refreshes yearly. In my state, sending an invoice 2 years later is a violation of our state consumer protection law, so it doesn’t happen often.

But mostly I would ask them to justify their existence and the existence of a 2 year old invoice sent without notice or even a phone call. I work with tons of different vendors at my job and none of them would pull that shit on me without a phone call.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1890 Posts
March 08 2017 19:56 GMT
#141645
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
March 08 2017 19:57 GMT
#141646
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 20:02:29
March 08 2017 19:59 GMT
#141647
WASHINGTON/BERLIN (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials said on Wednesday that they have been aware since the end of last year of a security breach at the CIA that led to anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks publishing agency documents on its hacking tools.

The officials, who asked not to be identified, told Reuters that they believed that the documents published by WikiLeaks on Tuesday were authentic.

Investigators were focusing on CIA contractors as the likely source of passing materials to WikiLeaks, the officials said. The group published what it said were nearly 8,000 of pages of internal CIA discussions about hacking techniques used between 2013 and 2016.

In Germany on Wednesday, the chief federal prosecutor's office said that it would review the Wikileaks documents because some suggested that the CIA ran a hacking hub from the U.S. consulate in Frankfurt.

"We're looking at it very carefully," a spokesman for the federal prosecutor's office told Reuters. "We will initiate an investigation if we see evidence of concrete criminal acts or specific perpetrators."

Reuters could not immediately verify the contents of the published documents, but several contractors and private cyber security experts said the materials appeared to be legitimate.

The latest revelations came days before Chancellor Angela Merkel is due to visit Washington for an initial meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, who has sharply criticized Berlin for everything from its trade policy to what he considers inadequate levels of military spending.

The Wikileaks documents may also complicate bilateral intelligence ties that have just begun to recover after a series of scandals, including news in 2013 that the National Security Agency had bugged Merkel's cellphone. The consulate was already heavily investigated by German lawmakers after that incident.

Merkel last month told lawmakers she did not know how closely Germany's spies cooperated with their U.S. counterparts until 2015 when former NSA contractor Edward Snowden revealed the BND spy agency had for years passed on information to the NSA about European companies and politicians.

Germany scaled back the level of cooperation with the NSA after those revelations.

U.S. officials have acknowledged that the consulate in Frankfurt is home to a CIA base. A facility adjacent to the city’s airport and the Rhein-Main Air Base has for many years been home to the CIA’s “Tefran” station, a U.S. center for collecting intelligence on Iranian activities in Europe, maintaining surveillance on Iranian officials and targeting potential defectors working in Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

SERIOUS MATTER

Foreign ministry spokesman Sebastian Fischer told a regular government news conference that Germany took the issue seriously, but more work needed to be done to verify the authenticity of the documents. Berlin was in close touch with Washington about the case and such matters generally, he said.

Officials at the German government news conference declined to answer questions about any knowledge Berlin might have about CIA activities in Germany. Government spokesman Steffen Seibert said Germany's domestic intelligence agency was tasked with uncovering espionage activities in Germany, and carried out its work comprehensively.

Wikileaks reported CIA employees had been given diplomatic passports and State Department identities to carry out their work in Germany at the U.S. consulate in Frankfurt, focused on targets in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

The documents included advice for CIA experts about life in Germany, including the fact that shops are closed on Sundays, and to have "your cover-for-action story down pat" when they passed through German customs.

One European official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Wikileaks material could in fact lead to closer cooperation between European spy agencies and U.S. counterparts, which share concerns about Russian intelligence operations.

The European official said there was suspicion, still unconfirmed, that Moscow could have had a hand in the latest leaks. U.S. spy agencies accuse Russia of meddling in the U.S. presidential election last year, which Russia denies.

“It’s interesting and maybe significant that this leak coincides with stepped-up Russian attempts to influence upcoming European elections, intimidate the Baltic states and other former Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe, and destabilize NATO and the European Union," said the European official.

When a reporter at the German government news conference asked whether it was a double standard that Berlin tolerated U.S. spying while trying to root out such activity by Russians, one of the government spokesmen said Berlin had good reason to suspect Moscow of seeking to influence Germany's election.

Source

This is going to be a whole lot of fun *squee*.

10/10 Russia diversion though.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 20:02 GMT
#141648
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol

It also wouldn’t hurt to look at Maryland’s consumer protection laws and see what they say about sending invoices and charges in a timely fashion.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 08 2017 20:06 GMT
#141649
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol


everything is negotiable, and companies are typically risk averse. they would rather have you agree to pay something today, even if it's not the original billed amount. much better than having to bug and go back and forth to eke some more $$$ out, or potentially lose your business.

in my case for comcast, the magic words are "google fiber".
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1890 Posts
March 08 2017 20:10 GMT
#141650
It's a public hospital, don't know if they care if I come back for more business.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 20:15 GMT
#141651
On March 09 2017 05:10 LightSpectra wrote:
It's a public hospital, don't know if they care if I come back for more business.

They will care about getting paid. They care if you look into if they complied with fair debt practices if they want to collect through other means. They care if you call your local house rep and complain about the local hospital hitting you up for charges that are two years old.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
dankobanana
Profile Joined February 2016
Croatia238 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 20:31:04
March 08 2017 20:27 GMT
#141652
On March 09 2017 04:41 LightSpectra wrote:

I have no experience with haggling over medical bills, but I guess it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose right...


jesus christ, reading about this is depressing, let alone being a part of that system :\

also I find it awful when people ask "how are you going to pay for universal health care?" and dont go to the streets on the fact that you spend circa 600 $ billion on the military. it fascinating and sad at the same time
Battle is waged in the name of the many. The brave, who generation after generation choose the mantle of - Dark Templar!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2017 20:38 GMT
#141653
I like how we have turned the US politics thread into a discussion of the systemic bullshit of the US health care industry while our EU posters look on in sad disbelief.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 20:38 GMT
#141654
WASHINGTON (AP) — If China was hoping for a concession from the U.S. after recently suspending coal imports from cash-poor North Korea, it got the opposite.

The U.S. is starting to deploy a missile defense system in South Korea which the allies say is needed to defend against North Korea. But China and North Korea view it as a threat.

That adds to strains in the high-stakes relationship between Washington and Beijing weeks into Donald Trump's presidency. And it could further complicate cooperation between the two world powers in combating something they both oppose — North Korea's nuclear program.

The U.S. military said Tuesday it has started bringing in equipment for the deployment of the Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense system, or THAAD. It says the system is designed to intercept and destroy short and medium-range ballistic missiles during the last part of their flights.

The announcement came after North Korea on Monday launched four ballistic missiles into ocean off Japan — a show of force in response to annual U.S.-South Korean military drills. The allies say they are routine but Pyongyang views them as rehearsal for an invasion.

China is concerned that THAAD has powerful radar that could track Chinese missiles and weaken its deterrence against the United States. Beijing said Tuesday it will take "necessary measures" to protect itself and warning that the U.S. and South Korea should be prepared to bear the consequences.

China has already exerted pressure on some South Korean commercial interests, but it remains unclear how the deployment will impact ties with Washington, which insists China is not targeted by THAAD. U.S.-based experts say that Chinese concerns are exaggerated, if not entirely unwarranted.

"The question is whether China having expressed their grievances will be prepared to let this pass or will let it erode their relationship with South Korea and a meaningful capacity for cooperation with the United States on North Korea," said Jonathan Pollack of the Brookings Institution think tank.

China proposed Wednesday that North Korea could suspend its nuclear and missile activities in exchange for a halt in joint military drills conducted by the U.S. and South Korea.

Foreign Minister Wang Yi said in Beijing that the "suspension-for-suspension can help us break out of the security dilemma and bring the parties back to the negotiating table."

Both the U.S. and South Korea resisted the idea. U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, said: "We have to see some sort of positive action taken by North Korea before we can ever take them (North Korea) seriously."

North Korea is one of the main national security challenges facing the Trump administration. It may already have the capability to strike South Korea and Japan — and the tens of thousands of American forces there — with nuclear weapons, and could pose the same threat to the U.S. mainland within years.

For China, the North's nuclear program poses a less direct challenge, but it could destabilize Northeast Asia and incentivize Japan, a rival of China's to acquire nuclear weapons of their own. And it could encourage the U.S. to strengthen its military posture in the region with systems like THAAD.

In a sign of growing impatience with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, China announced last month it was suspending coal imports from North Korea for the rest of the year in adherence to U.N. sanctions passed in November after the isolated nation's most powerful nuclear test explosion to date.

But Beijing remains reluctant to exert too much pressure on its traditional ally, fearing that a regime collapse would lead to a unified Korea allied with Washington at its border.

Joel Wit, a former State Department official and specialist on North Korea, said that the main factor in the continuing disconnect between the U.S. and China on dealing with Pyongyang is rooted not in differences over missile defense, but in a stalemate over how to approach the problem.

"The U.S. is always talking about increasing pressure, and taking military steps to protect its allies and itself," he said. "But the Chinese are always talking about need to reach out and talk to the North Koreans."

State Department acting spokesman Mark Toner made clear Tuesday that the U.S. administration is not seeking direct engagement with a provocative Pyongyang. When Secretary of State Rex Tillerson makes his first visit to the region next week, with stops in Tokyo, Seoul and Beijing, he'll be seeking a "strategic coordination" to address the escalating threat posed by North Korea.

"Right now we are focused on sanctions, and implementing those sanctions to the fullest extent possible, but we're looking at other possibilities as well," Toner said, without elaborating.

The THAAD deployment will hang over Tillerson's meetings with the Chinese.

Missile expert John Schilling said Beijing's concern is that the system's radar could provide detailed tracking of Chinese long-range missiles and that could be used to alert U.S. missile defenses.

"This is somewhat exaggerated as a threat, but the full capabilities of the THAAD system are classified so it can't be entirely discounted," he said, adding that China could counter that by modifying their missiles with multiple warheads or decoys, a process that it has likely begun already.

"We have to consider whether this leads in the direction of an arms race between United States and China," Schilling said, "which I don't think anybody wants."

Source

Wonder who's in charge of the logic division for our FP department.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 20:59:28
March 08 2017 20:46 GMT
#141655
spectra->
maryland looks to have a 3-year limit generally on collecting, not sure when it would start counting from though for a medical case, the original procedure, or from when the bill is first generated.
http://protectingconsumerrights.com/debt-collection-problems/statute-of-limitations-by-state/states/maryland/


also general rights stuff:
http://protectingconsumerrights.com/debt-collection-problems/fair-debt-collection-practices-act/


they also allege on that site to have a free review, but I can't find enough info on the site to verify how legit that is, or what strings there may be.
http://protectingconsumerrights.com/free-case-review/


here's a link to the gov't sites for consumer protection.
https://www.usa.gov/state-consumer/maryland

and this one in particular looks promising:
http://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/pages/cpd/heau/default.aspx
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 08 2017 20:50 GMT
#141656
Decent article on the fallout of this leak, current and future.

SAN FRANCISCO — US intelligence officials were panicked that WikiLeaks released a trove of thousands of documents on Tuesday that claim to expose the tools the CIA uses to hack phones, computers, and other devices.

Intelligence officials confirmed to BuzzFeed News that the documents they reviewed appear legitimate, and that they not only put current US cyber operations in danger, but provide a road map for adversaries around the world who want to study US methods and, one day, deploy those methods themselves.

“We already have this deficit in our ability to defend ourselves and now in the release of the tools we use our ability to scoop up info, our ability to attack is compromised,” said Eric O’Neill a former counterintelligence officer for the FBI who now works for the cybersecurity firm Carbon Black. “When these tools get out it proliferates among those who want to attack. They will be taken and modified and used by others who want to attack.”

A CIA spokesman told BuzzFeed News they “do not comment on the authenticity or content of purported intelligence documents.”

WikiLeaks claimed the 8,761 documents and files purportedly from the CIA’s Center for Cyber Intelligence are the “largest ever publication of confidential documents on the agency.” The documents expose the malware and exploits the CIA uses to hack into devices ranging from phones and laptops to smart TVs. But unlike previous documents released by WikiLeaks, such as the well-known cache of documents made public by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden that detailed widespread US surveillance efforts, there is little in these documents which is likely to surprise the general public. That a US intelligence agency develops programs that allow it to hack into devices across the world is something any person who has ever watched a spy thriller should be able to guess. Rather, the documents’ importance comes from the detailed technical information they reveal about how the CIA conducts its cyber ops, throwing open the door on some of the intelligence community’s most closely guarded secrets.

“This is, if you look at the big picture, worse than Snowden. What he released led to big headlines and put a few lives in danger. What we have here could potentially put thousands of people in danger in countries around the world. It’s like handing our biggest cyber guns over to anyone with an internet connection,” said one US intelligence officer, who spoke to BuzzFeed News on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the documents. He did not want his place of work named, though he has direct knowledge of US cyber operations. “The documents WikiLeaks published today are extremely dangerous. Not only do they endanger current operations, they reveal details about our methodology and practices which we don’t want our adversaries knowing about, let alone mimicking!”

Imagine if you could print a gun off the internet, added the officer, then use it against anyone you choose.

“Every adversary we have will be studying our methods and learning from them. They will use them not just against us, but against anyone weaker, with less cyber abilities,” said the officer. “It’s a worst-case scenario.”

Source

Sounds like karma to me.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
March 08 2017 20:58 GMT
#141657
On March 09 2017 05:06 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol


everything is negotiable, and companies are typically risk averse. they would rather have you agree to pay something today, even if it's not the original billed amount. much better than having to bug and go back and forth to eke some more $$$ out, or potentially lose your business.

in my case for comcast, the magic words are "google fiber".


Yeah. In my experience, the process you are describing kicks into effect as soon as someone expresses unwillingness to pay the billed amount. At that point, they are losing money the longer they have to fight and, as you said, they benefit from just getting something.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43276 Posts
March 08 2017 20:59 GMT
#141658
On March 09 2017 05:02 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol

It also wouldn’t hurt to look at Maryland’s consumer protection laws and see what they say about sending invoices and charges in a timely fashion.

Don't you normally have to waive all right to contest whatever bills they may later charge to get in the door? They'll say "we may hazard a guess at what we think you'll have to pay but whatever it is that the actual number turns out to be later, you pay that, sign here to acknowledge you want treatment under those terms".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 08 2017 21:04 GMT
#141659
On March 09 2017 05:59 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 05:02 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol

It also wouldn’t hurt to look at Maryland’s consumer protection laws and see what they say about sending invoices and charges in a timely fashion.

Don't you normally have to waive all right to contest whatever bills they may later charge to get in the door? They'll say "we may hazard a guess at what we think you'll have to pay but whatever it is that the actual number turns out to be later, you pay that, sign here to acknowledge you want treatment under those terms".

I don't know in this case, but consumer protection laws are often not waivable.
There have been some laws more recently as well about medical pricing and providing the info up-front.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-08 21:09:57
March 08 2017 21:09 GMT
#141660
On March 09 2017 05:59 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 05:02 Plansix wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 09 2017 04:56 LightSpectra wrote:
Maryland. But I will call the hospital that sent the bill and see if I can get this worked out.


The trick is to mention the fact that you are downright unable to afford the payment. A lot of places have protocols that don't get triggered until the person billed says it is beyond their means. Kinda like getting half priced comcast for your entire life lol

It also wouldn’t hurt to look at Maryland’s consumer protection laws and see what they say about sending invoices and charges in a timely fashion.

Don't you normally have to waive all right to contest whatever bills they may later charge to get in the door? They'll say "we may hazard a guess at what we think you'll have to pay but whatever it is that the actual number turns out to be later, you pay that, sign here to acknowledge you want treatment under those terms".

A lot of documents say you waive all right by doing something, including walking in the door or accepting services. If those documents hold up when applied to the specific fact set of the case is another matter. And since most of the waivers are pretty worthless, its just there to scare people into not fighting. Or if that contract conforms with state laws. It isn’t license to be a shitty debt collector or hit someone up for an invoice 2 years later without a call. Our clients ask that our agreements say the other side is barred from requesting extensions or appealing. No judge cares that we put that language in and just hears the request based on the facts.

If they want that money and think it is a valid debt, they have to go to court and get a judgment. You are allowed proper notice and the right to file an answer. If you offered to pay a lesser amount or they misquoted the fees to you and decided to correct the problem 2 years later. Or they didn’t bill your insurance company correct and passed their error on to you.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Prev 1 7081 7082 7083 7084 7085 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
CranKy Ducklings74
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
RO16 TieBreaker - Group B
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
ZZZero.O193
LiquipediaDiscussion
IPSL
20:00
Ro16 Group C
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 249
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2842
Artosis 535
ZZZero.O 193
Terrorterran 1
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor221
Other Games
Grubby5264
summit1g3624
FrodaN1979
Mlord503
Pyrionflax203
Maynarde101
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1765
gamesdonequick1151
BasetradeTV24
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 99
• davetesta84
• HeavenSC 58
• musti20045 32
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach33
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21246
• Ler87
League of Legends
• Doublelift4284
Other Games
• imaqtpie1616
• Scarra564
Upcoming Events
OSC
9h 18m
Wardi Open
12h 18m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 18m
OSC
23h 18m
Wardi Open
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.