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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
This could be very bad...
WASHINGTON — Weeks before President Trump’s inauguration, his national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, discussed American sanctions against Russia, as well as areas of possible cooperation, with that country’s ambassador to the United States, according to current and former American officials.
Throughout the discussions, the message Mr. Flynn conveyed to the ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak — that the Obama administration was Moscow’s adversary and that relations with Russia would change under Mr. Trump — was unambiguous and highly inappropriate, the officials said.
The accounts of the conversations raise the prospect that Mr. Flynn violated a law against private citizens’ engaging in diplomacy, and directly contradict statements made by Trump advisers. They have said that Mr. Flynn spoke to Mr. Kislyak a few days after Christmas merely to arrange a phone call between President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and Mr. Trump after the inauguration.
But current and former American officials said that conversation — which took place the day before the Obama administration imposed sanctions on Russia over accusations that it used cyberattacks to help sway the election in Mr. Trump’s favor — ranged far beyond the logistics of a post-inauguration phone call. And they said it was only one in a series of contacts between the two men that began before the election and also included talk of cooperating in the fight against the Islamic State, along with other issues.
The officials said that Mr. Flynn had never made explicit promises of sanctions relief, but that he had appeared to leave the impression it would be possible.
Mr. Flynn could not immediately be reached for comment about the converations, details of which were first reported by The Washington Post. Despite Mr. Flynn’s earlier denials, his spokesman told the Post that “while he had no recollection of discussing sanctions, he couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.”
During the Christmas week conversation, he urged Mr. Kislyak to keep the Russian government from retaliating over the coming sanctions — it was an open secret in Washington that they were in the works — by telling him that whatever the Obama administration did could be undone, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing classified material.
Days before Mr. Trump’s inauguration, Vice President-elect Mike Pence also denied that Mr. Flynn had discussed sanctions with Mr. Kislyak. He said he had personally spoken to Mr. Flynn, who assured him that the conversation was an informal chat that began with Mr. Flynn extending Christmas wishes.
“They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States’ decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia,” Mr. Pence said on the CBS News program “Face the Nation.”
Some officials regarded the conversation as a potential violation of the Logan Act, which prohibits private citizens from negotiating with foreign governments in disputes involving the American government, according to one current and one former American official familiar with the case.
Source
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On February 11 2017 00:25 Trainrunnef wrote:Wow Look at the difference in rank in infant formula: 12 for SNAP homes, 80 for non snap homes. That makes particular sense given that around 45-50% of SNAP recipients are children.
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On February 10 2017 22:31 pmh wrote: The PNAC, project for the new American century seems to have been put on hold for a while,it probably was to much anyway. 1600-1700 was the dutch century, 1700-1900 the English century,1900-2000 the American century, 2000-2100 is going to be the Asian/Chinese century. I'll believe this when the Asian economies aren't held under a Damocles sword of a cheap export economy. Its very clear that in the first 20 or so years of this century that American Influence is unchecked if a bit floundering.
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On February 11 2017 00:19 ticklishmusic wrote:looking at the list, i could say that i eat like people on food stamps (minus soda because i get that for free at work so i refuse to pay for it), or people on food stamps basically eat the same as other americans. 
If I remember correctly when the report that article is based on came out and people analyzed it basically yeah they ate the same as other Americans except they spent a ton more on baby food/formula on average.
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France7890 Posts
On February 11 2017 00:24 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Sources? But it's interesting: conservative oppose abortion on the image of the sexually depraved liberal womqn who irresponsibly has serial abortions because she just doesn't care. When the image you stick is an 18 years old whose boyfriend is not with anymore and has no mean in any way to raise a child, or a mither of 5 on minimal wage whose exusting children are already neglected, your vision starts to change. 6 weeks rotating through a ob/gyn clinic as a student, it was my experience. I did not once see an abortion case out of medical necessity, it was mostly people who didn't know they were pregnant for a while (usually overweight). It's anecdotal, but I know mishaps aren't a minority case, they are the majority. Yes I sympathize with the people on this issue, I'm not black/white here, there should be leniency in early trimester. I never talked about medical necessity. I talk about not having the means and conditions to raise a child. Or is it that that poor black family really should get a 7th child, who will have no one to raise him, will sell a bit of drugs and end up in jail for 35 years. Or that this 18 years old schoolgirl really really should get that child even though her 18 years old boyfriend is gone and she has no maturity, experience, money and means in any way not to fuck up both her life and her child's life beyond any repair? My boss was in that case. She aborted, then had 4 kids later in life.
And women do care, simply because unless you are affected by a higher degree of psychopathy, you get a very strong emotional bond for your child to be from the moment you learn you are pregnant. The woman i know who aborted all said it was the hardest decision of their life by a very long shot.
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I do not see how this:
On February 11 2017 00:24 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Sources? But it's interesting: conservative oppose abortion on the image of the sexually depraved liberal womqn who irresponsibly has serial abortions because she just doesn't care. When the image you stick is an 18 years old whose boyfriend is not with anymore and has no mean in any way to raise a child, or a mither of 5 on minimal wage whose exusting children are already neglected, your vision starts to change. 6 weeks rotating through a ob/gyn clinic as a student, it was my experience. I did not once see an abortion case out of medical necessity, it was mostly people who didn't know they were pregnant for a while (usually overweight). It's anecdotal, but I know mishaps aren't a minority case, they are the majority. Yes I sympathize with the people on this issue, I'm not black/white here, there should be leniency in early trimester.
is evidence for this:
On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases
Unwanted pregnancies being the lead cause of abortion (yeah, duh) is not evidence that the decision to abort is taken lightly (nor that welfare "queens" spend their food stamps on lobster).
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cases with medical necessity are rare, but the consequences are rather easier to weigh compared to a woman who may not have sex ed, accidentally got pregnant, and lacks the means to care for her child.
in an idealized world abortion would not be necessary except for medical necessity (in an ideal world it would probably not be needed at all). however, given that people don't get sex ed let alone the medical training bio has, abortion is an arguably necessary stopgap to prevent a lot more hardship.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On the "welfare queen eating lobster" matter: lobster is very cheap if you know where to get it; this is a non-issue.
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"King Coal" is dead.
Wind power expanded so much in 2016 that it is now the largest source of renewable electricity capacity in the United States, an industry group reported Thursday.
In a study, the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) said wind energy grew at its second-fastest pace ever during the last three months of 2016. Wind passed hydropower dams to become the largest source of renewable electricity capacity in the U.S., and the fourth-largest energy source overall.
“American wind power is now the number one source of renewable capacity, thanks to more than 100,000 wind workers across all 50 states,” AWEA CEO Tom Kiernan said in a statement.
“Growing this made-in-the-USA clean energy resource helps rural communities pay for new roads, bridges, and schools, while bringing back manufacturing jobs to the Rust Belt. Electricity capacity is one of several metrics used in the energy sector, measuring the maximum potential electric output for a generator.
Electricity generation is the amount of electricity a source actually produces. At the end of 2015, according to the federal Energy Information Administration, wind power accounted for 4.7 percent of electricity generation in the United States, behind coal (33 percent), natural gas (33 percent), nuclear (20 percent) and hydropower (6 percent).
AWEA said it expects to generate enough wind power to account for 10 percent of the U.S.'s electricity by 2020.
The report — and AWEA’s goals for the industry — is likely to serve as fodder for congressional debates over the energy mix in the United States, as well as long-term disputes over tax incentives for renewable energy.
A wind production tax credit — a key incentive for the industry — is set to expire in 2019, though Congress has renewed it several times in the past.
Source
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On February 11 2017 00:42 Acrofales wrote:I do not see how this: Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:24 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Sources? But it's interesting: conservative oppose abortion on the image of the sexually depraved liberal womqn who irresponsibly has serial abortions because she just doesn't care. When the image you stick is an 18 years old whose boyfriend is not with anymore and has no mean in any way to raise a child, or a mither of 5 on minimal wage whose exusting children are already neglected, your vision starts to change. 6 weeks rotating through a ob/gyn clinic as a student, it was my experience. I did not once see an abortion case out of medical necessity, it was mostly people who didn't know they were pregnant for a while (usually overweight). It's anecdotal, but I know mishaps aren't a minority case, they are the majority. Yes I sympathize with the people on this issue, I'm not black/white here, there should be leniency in early trimester. is evidence for this: Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Unwanted pregnancies being the lead cause of abortion (yeah, duh) is not evidence that the decision to abort is taken lightly (nor that welfare "queens" spend their food stamps on lobster).
Agreed. I find that many pro-life advocates seem to believe that pregnant women make the decision to have an abortion very easily/ in a flippant way/ with no loss of sleep/ with a huge smile on their face, rather than the frequent reality that the women understand the severity of the situation and get depressed or even feel badly/ guilty doing it but still realize that they should do it/ need to do it for certain reasons. These women aren't cackling wildly as they abort their fetuses, nor do they treat the process with indifference.
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On February 10 2017 16:34 oneofthem wrote: yea no, give me 2 minutes and i can predict what milo says next on a particular topic. it's not rocket science. neither are you
rocket science isn't that hard either comrade. but you must have watched a lot of milo to be able to predict everything he says. that's a lot of fascination for someone so disdainful.
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France7890 Posts
On February 11 2017 00:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:42 Acrofales wrote:I do not see how this: On February 11 2017 00:24 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Sources? But it's interesting: conservative oppose abortion on the image of the sexually depraved liberal womqn who irresponsibly has serial abortions because she just doesn't care. When the image you stick is an 18 years old whose boyfriend is not with anymore and has no mean in any way to raise a child, or a mither of 5 on minimal wage whose exusting children are already neglected, your vision starts to change. 6 weeks rotating through a ob/gyn clinic as a student, it was my experience. I did not once see an abortion case out of medical necessity, it was mostly people who didn't know they were pregnant for a while (usually overweight). It's anecdotal, but I know mishaps aren't a minority case, they are the majority. Yes I sympathize with the people on this issue, I'm not black/white here, there should be leniency in early trimester. is evidence for this: On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases Unwanted pregnancies being the lead cause of abortion (yeah, duh) is not evidence that the decision to abort is taken lightly (nor that welfare "queens" spend their food stamps on lobster). Agreed. I find that many pro-life advocates seem to believe that pregnant women make the decision to have an abortion very easily/ in a flippant way/ with no loss of sleep/ with a huge smile on their face, rather than the frequent reality that the women understand the severity of the situation and get depressed or even feel badly/ guilty doing it but still realize that they should do it/ need to do it for certain reasons. These women aren't cackling wildly as they abort their fetuses, nor do they treat the process with indifference. It's interesting how important those narratives / images are for forming or rather sustaining political opinions. For everyone.
Sorry about your article earlier, didn't get it.
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France7890 Posts
On February 11 2017 00:45 LegalLord wrote: On the "welfare queen eating lobster" matter: lobster is very cheap if you know where to get it; this is a non-issue. I don't think anyone is particularly attached to the lobster. It's just a narrative in which "those people" don't need any help and are living a great lazy life with your tax money.
Reagan got elected on such crap so it's to be taken seriously.
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On February 11 2017 00:54 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 16:34 oneofthem wrote: yea no, give me 2 minutes and i can predict what milo says next on a particular topic. it's not rocket science. neither are you rocket science isn't that hard either comrade. but you must have watched a lot of milo to be able to predict everything he says. that's a lot of fascination for someone so disdainful. rocket science is rocket science for a reason when you're talking about multidimensional trig with changing variables that change their rates. Kerbal space program gave me a lot more respect for rocket science then I had before.
Milo makes his bones on people not ignoring him. Its infuriating to see liberals feeding him so much time after time.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
A wee bit of developing drama in Tesla Land:
I’m proud to be part of a team that is bringing green cars to the masses. As a production worker at Tesla’s plant in Fremont for the past four years, I believe Tesla is one of the most innovative companies in the world. We are working hard to build the world’s #1 car — not just electric, but overall. Unfortunately, however, I often feel like I am working for a company of the future under working conditions of the past.
Most of my 5,000-plus coworkers work well over 40 hours a week, including excessive mandatory overtime. The hard, manual labor we put in to make Tesla successful is done at great risk to our bodies. Preventable injuries happen often. In addition to long working hours, machinery is often not ergonomically compatible with our bodies. There is too much twisting and turning and extra physical movement to do jobs that could be simplified if workers’ input were welcomed. Add a shortage of manpower and a constant push to work faster to meet production goals, and injuries are bound to happen.
A few months ago, six out of eight people in my work team were out on medical leave at the same time due to various work-related injuries. I hear that ergonomics concerns in other departments are even more severe. Worst of all, I hear coworkers quietly say that they are hurting but they are too afraid to report it for fear of being labeled as a complainer or bad worker by management.
It's a story because this post, and Musk's classic "our enemies paid for this viewpoint" denial made the financial news. And UAW confirmed that Tesla workers talked to them, denied that this guy is secretly on their payroll.
So for people that were speculating that the "tech entrepreneur" companies are cheaper because they just work smarter... here's an alternative perspective to consider.
Also a more complete version of the story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/02/09/unionizing-tesla-worker-says-uaw-help-sought-for-factory-pay-and-conditions/
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On February 11 2017 00:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:"King Coal" is dead. Show nested quote +Wind power expanded so much in 2016 that it is now the largest source of renewable electricity capacity in the United States, an industry group reported Thursday.
In a study, the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) said wind energy grew at its second-fastest pace ever during the last three months of 2016. Wind passed hydropower dams to become the largest source of renewable electricity capacity in the U.S., and the fourth-largest energy source overall.
“American wind power is now the number one source of renewable capacity, thanks to more than 100,000 wind workers across all 50 states,” AWEA CEO Tom Kiernan said in a statement.
“Growing this made-in-the-USA clean energy resource helps rural communities pay for new roads, bridges, and schools, while bringing back manufacturing jobs to the Rust Belt. Electricity capacity is one of several metrics used in the energy sector, measuring the maximum potential electric output for a generator.
Electricity generation is the amount of electricity a source actually produces. At the end of 2015, according to the federal Energy Information Administration, wind power accounted for 4.7 percent of electricity generation in the United States, behind coal (33 percent), natural gas (33 percent), nuclear (20 percent) and hydropower (6 percent).
AWEA said it expects to generate enough wind power to account for 10 percent of the U.S.'s electricity by 2020.
The report — and AWEA’s goals for the industry — is likely to serve as fodder for congressional debates over the energy mix in the United States, as well as long-term disputes over tax incentives for renewable energy.
A wind production tax credit — a key incentive for the industry — is set to expire in 2019, though Congress has renewed it several times in the past. Source It became top renewable, its predicted to grow to 10% (and generation is a very skewed-to-low-power metric, occurring in spread times and not by need), and coal sits mighty at 33%. The growth has been fueled also by tax credits. Hilarious.
Nuclear is the clean energy for the future, delivering high power output for consumers, not this trickle that's just a nice secondary bonus.
In some unrelated good news,
House Financial Services Committee Chairman Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas) is preparing a major overhaul to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that would place it squarely under President Trump’s authority, according to a memo obtained by The Hill.
Hensarling is overhauling his broad legislation to rework the Dodd-Frank financial reform law, putting in place changes that would significantly curtail the CFPB’s powers and make it answer directly to the president. [...]
Under the plan, the agency also would no longer be able to regulate entities already regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission or the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. And it could no longer levy fines against institutions, seeing its enforcement powers limited to cease and desist letters and subpoenas. The Hill Maybe we'll get a useful curb to that disastrous agency ahead of constitutional challenges.
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On February 11 2017 00:54 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 16:34 oneofthem wrote: yea no, give me 2 minutes and i can predict what milo says next on a particular topic. it's not rocket science. neither are you rocket science isn't that hard either comrade. but you must have watched a lot of milo to be able to predict everything he says. that's a lot of fascination for someone so disdainful.
the more I think about it, the more this comment appears ridiculous to me. a few pages ago you were talking about how the two sides aren't even using the same language mapping and so can not have a conversation, let alone productive dialogue.
i also wonder what it would mean for you to have no idea what a person (whom you presumably know something about what) would say. someone spouting literally random, unpredictable sentences?
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Canada11350 Posts
On February 11 2017 00:44 ticklishmusic wrote: cases with medical necessity are rare, but the consequences are rather easier to weigh compared to a woman who may not have sex ed, accidentally got pregnant, and lacks the means to care for her child.
in an idealized world abortion would not be necessary except for medical necessity (in an ideal world it would probably not be needed at all). however, given that people don't get sex ed let alone the medical training bio has, abortion is an arguably necessary stopgap to prevent a lot more hardship. So is the argument that being born into poverty is a reason to kill? Better to be dead than poor?
If they figured they could take care of her offspring, bore it, and then realized grinding poverty was too much, could they choose to commit infanticide then?
Also, to the one that asserted that the GOP simply wants helpless women- I can't speak to the GOP, but there are several pro-life groups that when they are outside abortion clinics, have families ready to adopt and lawyers ready to go through the legal paperwork to adopt any baby, if any mother chooses not to abort, but cannot take care for her offspring (usually because the man was a coward and abandoned the woman to support or abort the offspring.) And yes, sex ed will partially help but not wholly as people can have lots of knowledge, and never act on it.
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United States42754 Posts
On February 11 2017 00:12 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 00:09 ticklishmusic wrote: yeah, "whoopsie, i got pregnant better get an abortion" is pretty rare. it's kind of like the welfare queen who spends her government check on lobster. That's exactly what happens in a lot of the cases I'm not sure which myth you're referring to but the welfare queen myth was invented by Reagan on the campaign trail to create outrage and animosity. The real welfare queen he was basing his stories on was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Taylor a white fraudster whose benefits fraud was on a colossally smaller scale than the myth created around her. He took one case of a fraudster who got caught (ie the system working as it should) and used it to portray the population who depend on benefits as a bunch of swindlers.
As for abortions. They're expensive. Less expensive than paying for a child, still too expensive to routinely use as birth control.
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