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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:49 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:46 LegalLord wrote:On January 28 2017 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On January 28 2017 04:28 LegalLord wrote:
Oh well, I guess it's just our lot in life that the people who used to have decent jobs but don't can never get them back and being poor and compensated by the state is all they can strive for.
I'll go inform the electorate. I'm sure their response will be something along the lines of, "well we don't really want to inconvenience you, so it's alright." The invention of cars killed a lot of industries and jobs too. But lets think about how many jobs were created in the long run. This isn't the first and won't be the last time some big industry gets taken a dump on while another industry rises to greatness. It also wouldn't be the first time that as a large segment of the population perceived a substantial decline in their way of living because the benefits of such technology went disproportionately into the hands of the elite, they started to revolt. No, the first time the white middle class perceived a substantial decline, the white man can not tolerate that he has to sit in the back of the bus for the first time. 'The American dream' wasn't even open for large segments of the population until very recently. Imagine if every other marginalized group in the US would have reacted as strongly. You'd live in a state of permanent civil war.
I suppose what you're trying to say is that it's time for whitey to be brought down a notch, yes?
That's exactly the kind of identity politics that makes Hillary Clinton and her ilk so disgusting for most of the rest of us.
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On January 28 2017 04:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:45 Ayaz2810 wrote:On January 28 2017 04:28 LegalLord wrote:
Oh well, I guess it's just our lot in life that the people who used to have decent jobs but don't can never get them back and being poor and compensated by the state is all they can strive for.
I'll go inform the electorate. I'm sure their response will be something along the lines of, "well we don't really want to inconvenience you, so it's alright." Well if we stopped institutionalized racism, put money into real education instead of the shitholes we call schools now, invested more heavily into infrastructure and alternative energy, decriminalized weed and taxed it, did away with our horrendous private for-profit prisons, did away with mandatory sentences (see point 1), and paid a living wage for every full-time job, maybe that would help? Just maybe? Wouldn't have to suck on that government teat if your government and employer aren't actively trying to fuck you with terrible policy designed to make money for someone else. But again, don't wanna inconvenience anyone like you said. Especially those poor overworked rich folks. Maybe it would help. Too bad the candidate who wanted all those things wasn't electable enough and the issues in the world were just too important to risk losing the election to some demagogue from the right.
it is indeed too bad that hillary wasn't able to win and implement such things. oh well.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 03:48 mahrgell wrote:
Will it turn in a decent outcome for the US, when Trump treats all US allies like this? See, these sentiments strike me as being hilariously misplaced. We aren't talking about a third-rate nation like Peru. We are talking about the US -- the most powerful and influential country in the world, and the country from whom everyone else wants something. We're the hot blonde on the world stage. We can afford to be an asshole from time to time with minimal (if any) repercussion.
From time to time, perhaps - but no one will want to deal if it becomes the annoying bitch that no one can stand.
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On January 28 2017 04:19 TheTenthDoc wrote:Quick check on something unrelated: is everyone in agreement now that Trump's claims of "repeal and replace" much less "universal healthcare" were a load of stinking horse crap? Remember, the Trump told us this on January 11th: Show nested quote +We're going to be submitting -- as soon as our secretary's approved, almost simultaneously, shortly thereafter, a plan. It'll be repeal and replace. It will be essentially simultaneously. Probably the same day, could be the same hour.
Don't blame Trump. Blame the GOP cowards in Congress.
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On January 28 2017 04:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:45 Ayaz2810 wrote:On January 28 2017 04:28 LegalLord wrote:
Oh well, I guess it's just our lot in life that the people who used to have decent jobs but don't can never get them back and being poor and compensated by the state is all they can strive for.
I'll go inform the electorate. I'm sure their response will be something along the lines of, "well we don't really want to inconvenience you, so it's alright." Well if we stopped institutionalized racism, put money into real education instead of the shitholes we call schools now, invested more heavily into infrastructure and alternative energy, decriminalized weed and taxed it, did away with our horrendous private for-profit prisons, did away with mandatory sentences (see point 1), and paid a living wage for every full-time job, maybe that would help? Just maybe? Wouldn't have to suck on that government teat if your government and employer aren't actively trying to fuck you with terrible policy designed to make money for someone else. But again, don't wanna inconvenience anyone like you said. Especially those poor overworked rich folks. Maybe it would help. Too bad the candidate who wanted all those things wasn't electable enough and the issues in the world were just too important to risk losing the election to some demagogue from the right.
It's kind of hard to pinpoint where exactly you stand. You seem to agree that the right direction for the US is much more toward democratic socialism than it has been. But then a new president comes in and brings you even more to the right, and you seem much more ready to defend that shift than you should be given your presented positions.
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On January 28 2017 04:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:49 Nyxisto wrote:On January 28 2017 04:46 LegalLord wrote:On January 28 2017 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On January 28 2017 04:28 LegalLord wrote:
Oh well, I guess it's just our lot in life that the people who used to have decent jobs but don't can never get them back and being poor and compensated by the state is all they can strive for.
I'll go inform the electorate. I'm sure their response will be something along the lines of, "well we don't really want to inconvenience you, so it's alright." The invention of cars killed a lot of industries and jobs too. But lets think about how many jobs were created in the long run. This isn't the first and won't be the last time some big industry gets taken a dump on while another industry rises to greatness. It also wouldn't be the first time that as a large segment of the population perceived a substantial decline in their way of living because the benefits of such technology went disproportionately into the hands of the elite, they started to revolt. No, the first time the white middle class perceived a substantial decline, the white man can not tolerate that he has to sit in the back of the bus for the first time. 'The American dream' wasn't even open for large segments of the population until very recently. Imagine if every other marginalized group in the US would have reacted as strongly. You'd live in a state of permanent civil war. I suppose what you're trying to say is that it's time for whitey to be brought down a notch, yes? That's exactly the kind of identity politics that makes Hillary Clinton and her ilk so disgusting for most of the rest of us.
No, I'm saying that fears and problems in one subset of the population don't justify the election of demagogues, a lesson every other group on this planet has already learned. You don't get to trash the whole place just because you're not doing so well, because there are actually other people around whose concerns are as real as everybody else's.
It is absolutely hysterical that a nation that promotes individual responsibility and self-organisation elects such a poor man's version of a saviour as Trump.
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Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:55 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:48 LegalLord wrote:On January 28 2017 04:45 Ayaz2810 wrote:On January 28 2017 04:28 LegalLord wrote:
Oh well, I guess it's just our lot in life that the people who used to have decent jobs but don't can never get them back and being poor and compensated by the state is all they can strive for.
I'll go inform the electorate. I'm sure their response will be something along the lines of, "well we don't really want to inconvenience you, so it's alright." Well if we stopped institutionalized racism, put money into real education instead of the shitholes we call schools now, invested more heavily into infrastructure and alternative energy, decriminalized weed and taxed it, did away with our horrendous private for-profit prisons, did away with mandatory sentences (see point 1), and paid a living wage for every full-time job, maybe that would help? Just maybe? Wouldn't have to suck on that government teat if your government and employer aren't actively trying to fuck you with terrible policy designed to make money for someone else. But again, don't wanna inconvenience anyone like you said. Especially those poor overworked rich folks. Maybe it would help. Too bad the candidate who wanted all those things wasn't electable enough and the issues in the world were just too important to risk losing the election to some demagogue from the right. It's kind of hard to pinpoint where exactly you stand. You seem to agree that the right direction for the US is much more toward democratic socialism than it has been. But then a new president comes in and brings you even more to the right, and you seem much more ready to defend that shift than you should be given your presented positions.
Let's just say I agree with some things Trump wants to do, but not others, and I'm definitely not a leftist. I tend not to criticize the things Trump does stupidly because that only contributes to an echo chamber. Everyone else is plenty willing to criticize Trump's stupid actions so I don't really see much benefit in adding to it.
To put it simply, though: I think Bernie Sanders was the best choice for president, but that doesn't mean I was on board with his leftist vision of the world. I don't think Trump is going to be a competent leader and he will probably leave a mess to clean up - but maybe that is a necessary precursor to meaningful reform.
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On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word.
Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word.
Ideally other countries will have so little national pride that they will be willing to bend over backwards to avoid compromising themselves economically.
Hey, it's not exactly an unwarranted assertion about other countries.
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On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here.
false. you're simply wrong here.
none of has missed the first point that you claim.
instead they disagree about what plan will best achieve american interests.
many of us disagree with the claim that mexico has abused our goodwill.
it is definitely not the case that the abuse is unequivocal, it is rather uncertain.
there are many courses of action a rational actor might take, and they might very well not be what trump is doing, as witnessed by the numerous prior administrations and other countries who did not act that way. because they were accounting for other factors and long-term costs/risks.
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On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here.
You may be deluded that Trump is a rational actor pursuing our best interests, but all I'm hearing is stuff that will probably backfire.
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On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here.
You realize this argument has basically never worked in the history of ever?
The only nations that will agree with yours are the ones that want to do the same and grab some territory and resources for themselves through force (e.g. China and Russia).
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On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here.
Can you expand on the abuses Mexico commited? Providing cheap labor and cheap goods is a crime now?
www.tradingeconomics.com
The November figures show surpluses, in billions of dollars, with Hong Kong ($2.5), South and Central America ($2.4), Singapore ($1.0), Brazil ($0.8), and United Kingdom ($0.1). Deficits were recorded, in billions of dollars, with China ($28.4), European Union ($13.8), Japan ($5.7), Mexico ($5.7), Germany ($5.3), Canada ($3.2), Italy ($2.2), South Korea ($2.2), OPEC ($1.9), India ($1.8), Taiwan ($1.3), France ($1.3), and Saudi Arabia ($0.2).
I can't wait to pay the wall in the Atlantic, I hope the Germans will pay a bigger part of the wall though as they're responsible of a bigger part of the EU deficit.
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Trump claiming yesterday today that sanctuary cities tend to have higher crime rates and that Philadelphia has a rising crime rate - both outright falsehoods. Not even "okay you used some misleading statistics there" - just dumb falsehoods invented in the moment.
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Estonia4504 Posts
I am most worried about the shoot from the hip "take their oil" comments. He specifically stated that he would not want to signal ahead of unilateral action. Statements like these get people killed in unnecessary wars. Civilian resistance will likely be worse than in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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On January 28 2017 05:14 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here. You realize this argument has basically never worked in the history of ever? The only nations that will agree with yours are the ones that want to do the same and grab some territory and resources for themselves through force (e.g. China and Russia).
You have it backwards. My argument is how things have always worked historically. The only arguable exception has been during the post-Cold War unipolar world that the US has dominated. This order is clearly ending.
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On January 28 2017 05:28 mustaju wrote:
I am most worried about the shoot from the hip "take their oil" comments. He specifically stated that he would not want to signal ahead of unilateral action. Statements like these get people killed in unnecessary wars. Civilian resistance will likely be worse than in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Trump is absolutely right that we should have taken their oil if we were going to bother to invade in the first place.
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On January 28 2017 05:19 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2017 05:01 xDaunt wrote:On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word. Here's the point that so many of you miss: every country has the right to pursue its own best interests. America is no different than anyone else in this regard. The US is neither a charity nor a global buffet line. Mexico has unequivocally abused our good will. A debt is owed, and the US has the ability to make them pay for it. Any rational actor pursuing his best interests would do what Trump is doing. Your useless moralizing has no place here. Can you expand on the abuses Mexico commited? Providing cheap labor and cheap goods is a crime now? www.tradingeconomics.comShow nested quote +The November figures show surpluses, in billions of dollars, with Hong Kong ($2.5), South and Central America ($2.4), Singapore ($1.0), Brazil ($0.8), and United Kingdom ($0.1). Deficits were recorded, in billions of dollars, with China ($28.4), European Union ($13.8), Japan ($5.7), Mexico ($5.7), Germany ($5.3), Canada ($3.2), Italy ($2.2), South Korea ($2.2), OPEC ($1.9), India ($1.8), Taiwan ($1.3), France ($1.3), and Saudi Arabia ($0.2). I can't wait to pay the wall in the Atlantic, I hope the Germans will pay a bigger part of the wall though as they're responsible of a bigger part of the EU deficit.
By providing worse conditions to workers, and less regulation than the US, Mexico is able to produce things cheaper than the US. Then a lot of the skilled instrustry leaves for Mexico, and you have less innovation in your country further on.
Short term it benefits the US, long term is a very debatable topic, and hence why protectionism vs free trade arguments are a thing.
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On January 28 2017 04:57 Velr wrote:
Here is a small word for the americans that think abot mexico paying for the wall.
PRIDE, you know it, you love it for your own country. So, who the fuck do you think you are to demabd something like that from another people.
You disgust me in the truest sense of the word.
Mexico has no pride. When we took over their republic, seized their land, marched on their capital and wrote their constitution. America is going to lead by example like we always have and demand others follow as trump laments peace through strength. Trump represents the movement the populist movement that Federal law is needed when out of control democracy attempts to tear down society. Feminism, Liberalism all cancers which drag down the family unit the unit which empowers a strong middle class who can keep a government in check. A strong middle class is the backbone of any great nation and we will not forsake it. The time of swaying opinion is over we won, nationalism won, globalism lost and anyone who stands in our way is an enemy of the human race. We fight for cultures, families, race and the western way of life and for life itself.
The time of Mexico leeching off our society is over. Mexico has needed a revolution for a very long time and their cowardly politicians would rather prop up a broken system then make their own country great. Illegal immigrants drain societies which leads to out of control democracy which leads to feminism which leads to societies downfall. If you are paying attention to american politics and social issues we are resetting the system, de-funding sanctuary cities, deporting criminal illegal aliens and bringing back wealth to our country. Too long have elitists all over the world sabotaged societies for their greed. Too long have identity politics lorded over the logic needed to run a society. Mexico is only the first of many nations who will reform and bend the knee if you will .America is here to support you if you are willing to change if not the hardships are your own.
User was temp banned for this post.
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