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How many times has a democrat or state made public announcements of how they will actively increase union protections? How many times have they shared to the media their intent to specifically elevate unions? How many federal protection laws have been attempted to be pushed to protect union workers? How hard have dems fought to increase funding to OSHA?
I understand that Union Membership is getting worse, because being a union member is getting fairly shitty. A lot of liberal politicians like Bernie and Warren talk a big game about unions, democrats love talking about how they care about unions. But what laws have they stuck their reputation on to specifically improve union rights?
None.
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On December 07 2016 06:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
why would i be excited to see changes which will likely negatively affect me to some degree and probably a lot of people to a large degree? If you're not intellectually curious in all things political, then you wouldn't be.
xdaunt once again is unable to make an argument and resorts to a cute insult.
User was warned for this post
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On December 07 2016 06:20 xDaunt wrote:
I think Trump's aiming for an 80% approval rating before he takes office.
People are going to start wondering what, exactly, Obama has been doing in office the past eight years. Hell, it already seems like Trump is the president.
EDIT: For clarification, Trump met with representatives of the bank that he's tweeting about today.
Why should we believe this is how things actually went down? He lies about everything; twitter is his favorite place to lie in particular. Based on his past record there is a 99% chance there is some caveat which undermines his whole argument but which he selectively doesn't mention.
This illustrates the problem with his constant tweeting. He can just say whatever he wants and all his followers will eat it up as necessarily true. Get used to his little reality contrasting with real life. I wonder how bad it will get if a recession hits? Blaming everybody but himself or actually telling people everything is alright when it obviously isn't?
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On December 07 2016 06:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:How many times has a democrat or state made public announcements of how they will actively increase union protections? How many times have they shared to the media their intent to specifically elevate unions? How many federal protection laws have been attempted to be pushed to protect union workers? How hard have dems fought to increase funding to OSHA? I understand that Union Membership is getting worse, because being a union member is getting fairly shitty. A lot of liberal politicians like Bernie and Warren talk a big game about unions, democrats love talking about how they care about unions. But what laws have they stuck their reputation on to specifically improve union rights? None.
I don't know about announcement frequency; as I don't follow that closely.
I don't know enough specifically to really say in response to your questions, all I have is some questions of my own:
are the current regulatory levels of those things sufficient?
are protections specifically for union workers more needed than they used to be?
Are the problem that exist ones that can be fixed by laws? or is it that good laws are in place already adn the issue is regulations/enforcement? or some unknown factors are involved?
e.g. with women and pay, there's been laws on the books for equal pay for a long time now, yet iirc there's still a discrepancy of a few %.
why would you need to specifically elevate unions? unions aren't an innately good thing, they're an often necessary evil.
does OSHA actually need more funding?
from what I've seen, on the job death and injury rates have been slowly but steadily declining for many decades now; so I don't get the impression that progress isn't being made there.
what specific things have not been delivered that should have been delivered/worked on with respect to unions?
or is it more a general dissatisfaction than specific things that need to be done?
there's also a difference between supporting them somewhat less, and not supporting them at all.
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On December 07 2016 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 05:26 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:05 ticklishmusic wrote:
women are getting IUD's b/c they're worried birth control will be hard to get for the next 4 years. there is news about minority students being harassed by not only other students but also teachers because "its trump's america". i have a gay friend who had to be hospitalized for a little while after the election for reasons i won't go into. shit like this is already happening.
meanwhile, xdaunt's complains about how expensive daycare is. I'd consider your arguments fair if you showed the same amount of empathy (sympathy) to the working class voters who have had their jobs destroyed and infiltrated and replaced with drugs, while not even being a part of political discourse. Mention the violence against trump supporters too, that's where your pseudo morality ends however because politics. Please do explain this statement Oo and for the working class. Yes I do sympathise with their plight but there is no easy answer (see reverting globalization) and the blame lies with their local politicians who fought tooth and nail to keep stuff like the coal industry going for as long as possible instead of looking ahead and shifting the economy into different fields. How many times has the Federal government been stopped from trying to move away from the coal industry only to be shut down by states? Their in a bad spot now because of the choices they made 10 years ago. That's how short term gains at the cost of long term effects works.
I don't have any sort of direct evidence for that statement, but I suspect that there is a strong direct inverse correlation between drug abuse and economic opportunity. The areas that have been devastated by a loss of manufacturing jobs are one example. Drug addiction is literally an erosion of the frontal cortex where your will power and thus the capacity for personal responsibility originate from so it is a bit hard for me to blame them on that front.
This is also exacerbated by another major shitshow in medicine, pain control. Doctors are taught from day 1 to trust the complaints of the patient, and prescribe accordingly. Controlling pain is given more weight than a possible suspected development of addiction. Combine these variables and you get a major opioid epidemic.
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On December 07 2016 06:50 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:13 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 06:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
why would i be excited to see changes which will likely negatively affect me to some degree and probably a lot of people to a large degree? If you're not intellectually curious in all things political, then you wouldn't be. xdaunt once again is unable to make an argument and resorts to a cute insult.
There's no insult here. I'm merely stating the obvious. If you aren't intellectually curious enough in politics to put aside your own political preferences and look at what Trump's doing clinically, then you're not going to be excited by any of this. You can't have it both ways.
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bio -> pain control is complicated. living with pain is very difficult and very hard.
so there was a movement sometime in the 80s/90s iirc to start more aggressively treating pain, to try to alleviate the suffering and to enable people to work and live thier lives (as chronic pain can be very debilitating).
now there's perhaps been a bit of an overshoot in pain treatment, from a prior position that was probably an undershoot.
congress and other government levels have been doing a lot of work on the opioid issue.
that much I do know.
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On December 07 2016 06:37 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 04:32 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:On December 07 2016 03:12 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 02:08 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 01:45 Nebuchad wrote:On December 07 2016 01:41 xDaunt wrote:Trump sure knows how to pick 'em. This is a nice, high profile, yet relatively limited issue that Trump can use to continue to build his legend. And he's probably right that this particular contract is bloated. Would you object if I asked you to write a series of things that Trump could do where you'll disagree with him? Cause I'm getting the distinct sense that you're just agreeing with things as they come because Trump is the one doing them. If you've already done that I apologize, it's possible I missed it. There are a lot of things that he could do that I'd disagree with -- pretty much anything that falls outside of my policy preferences. For example, if Trump stopped being a nationalist and pursuing nationalist objectives, I'd be very unhappy with him. I think that the other thing bears mentioning in response to Nebuchad's post that's not-so-subtly accusing me of being a Trump cheerleader is this: regardless of how agreeable Trump's policies and actions are, what he's doing is undeniably interesting and exciting. For how many years have people wanted some kind of change in Washington? Something to shake up partisan gridlock and status quo? Well, we're getting that change now. We'll see whether any good comes of it, but the quality of the spectacle is undeniable. Sometimes your sitting at home a little bored wanting for something interesting to happen to occupy your mind. Getting attacked by a wild bear would fit that criteria. But its normally not something people wish for. Your attitude is that of the well off white male who has (almost) nothing to fear. You call it a spectacle but when your job, your pension, your health insurance or your gay marriage are affected by it your slightly less happy. Congratulations and enjoy the spectacle in your silver tower. Just don't get mad that other people who's daily lives are effected by the 'spectacle' going on are a little cross. Damn, dude. Where's the optimism? Your narrative above is hyperbole ad absurdum. You even threw gay marriage in there, which is a settled issue now and won't be affected by anything Trump does. ? You don't think that there isn't a good chance that once Trump picks the next 1-2 justices that there won't follow a challenge to get the gay marriage decision overturned? He could care less about the issue himself but his appointees open the door for those who do care to take advantage. I also find it curious that you say that the liberal-democrats are fucking "everything" up considering how much more power the GOP has had the last 6 years, even longer if you look at the state level. For a country "in such a bad place" as the right likes to say, they sure have had their hands all over decision making.
No, I don't think that there's any chance that the Court reverses the gay marriage decision, regardless of whom Trump appoints. Stare decisis is a thing.
And don't worry about my disdain for the GOP. I have plenty for them as well, and I blame them for a whole a bunch of things.
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On December 07 2016 07:04 zlefin wrote:
bio -> pain control is complicated. living with pain is very difficult and very hard.
so there was a movement sometime in the 80s/90s iirc to start more aggressively treating pain, to try to alleviate the suffering and to enable people to work and live thier lives (as chronic pain can be very debilitating).
now there's perhaps been a bit of an overshoot in pain treatment, from a prior position that was probably an undershoot.
congress and other government levels have been doing a lot of work on the opioid issue.
that much I do know.
I don't think the pain control criticism is strictly about chronic pain. There's a lot of stories that go like this:
- Person is in accident and gets hurt
- Person is in pain
- Pain causes doctor to prescribe opioid
- Person who has nothing to do but sit around all day depressed because they're injured and may not be able to do the things they could before has prescription to highly addictive pain killer
- Obvious conclusion
- New Drug addict who may eventually be too poor for pills and will turn to the cheapest opioid available (heroin if they're lucky, fentanyl if they're not).
The addiction has a lot more do with this type of situation I think. Opioid prescriptions outside of chronic pain should be looked at very skeptically. Especially for young people.
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On December 07 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:On December 07 2016 05:26 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:05 ticklishmusic wrote:
women are getting IUD's b/c they're worried birth control will be hard to get for the next 4 years. there is news about minority students being harassed by not only other students but also teachers because "its trump's america". i have a gay friend who had to be hospitalized for a little while after the election for reasons i won't go into. shit like this is already happening.
meanwhile, xdaunt's complains about how expensive daycare is. I'd consider your arguments fair if you showed the same amount of empathy (sympathy) to the working class voters who have had their jobs destroyed and infiltrated and replaced with drugs, while not even being a part of political discourse. Mention the violence against trump supporters too, that's where your pseudo morality ends however because politics. and replaced with drugs Please do explain this statement Oo and for the working class. Yes I do sympathise with their plight but there is no easy answer (see reverting globalization) and the blame lies with their local politicians who fought tooth and nail to keep stuff like the coal industry going for as long as possible instead of looking ahead and shifting the economy into different fields. How many times has the Federal government been stopped from trying to move away from the coal industry only to be shut down by states? Their in a bad spot now because of the choices they made 10 years ago. That's how short term gains at the cost of long term effects works. I don't have any sort of direct evidence for that statement, but I suspect that there is a strong direct inverse correlation between drug abuse and economic opportunity. The areas that have been devastated by a loss of manufacturing jobs are one example. Drug addiction is literally an erosion of the frontal cortex where your will power and thus the capacity for personal responsibility originate from so it is a bit hard for me to blame them on that front. This is also exacerbated by another major shitshow in medicine, pain control. Doctors are taught from day 1 to trust the complaints of the patient, and prescribe accordingly. Controlling pain is given more weight than a possible suspected development of addiction. Combine these variables and you get a major opioid epidemic.
If your doctors are taught to trust the complaints of the patient then its no wonder your healthcare is in the sorry state its in.
The mind can work wonderful tricks to convince the body and the person that there is something wrong with them for completely unrelated reasons. You shouldn't ignore it when a patient comes in with a complaint but you sure shouldn't completely trust them either and just proscribe something for an ailment you can find no evidence of during an examination.
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xDaunt, I have a question about what you said.
My mother was unable to get healthcare until the ACA passed around; she has a lot of health issues, despite how hard she tries to be careful (sleep apnea, metal hip, scoliosis, etc). Health companies refused to service her (even though she could afford to pay a high price, they just said no) until the ACA was passed around; now, she is able to have healthcare (although the cost is extraordinary). Should she, too, consider it a turd and not praise it when it gave her medical coverage?
I just want to hear what you have to say about people like her and how they should feel.
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On December 07 2016 07:04 zlefin wrote:
bio -> pain control is complicated. living with pain is very difficult and very hard.
so there was a movement sometime in the 80s/90s iirc to start more aggressively treating pain, to try to alleviate the suffering and to enable people to work and live thier lives (as chronic pain can be very debilitating).
now there's perhaps been a bit of an overshoot in pain treatment, from a prior position that was probably an undershoot.
congress and other government levels have been doing a lot of work on the opioid issue.
that much I do know.
I agree with the philosophy of aggressively managing pain, we don't have good meds for it given the side effects, and secondly pain is subjective so it is hard to assess and relies on trust. Just not a good situation to be in.
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On December 07 2016 07:08 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
xDaunt, I have a question about what you said.
My mother was unable to get healthcare until the ACA passed around; she has a lot of health issues, despite how hard she tries to be careful (sleep apnea, metal hip, scoliosis, etc). Health companies refused to service her (even though she could afford to pay a high price, they just said no) until the ACA was passed around; now, she is able to have healthcare (although the cost is extraordinary). Should she, too, consider it a turd and not praise it when it gave her medical coverage?
I just want to hear what you have to say about people like her and how they should feel.
She's a winner under the ACA, so I'm sure that she has nice things to say about it. But the cold reality is this: wise public policy is not a function of the needs of the individual.
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On December 07 2016 07:07 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:04 zlefin wrote:
bio -> pain control is complicated. living with pain is very difficult and very hard.
so there was a movement sometime in the 80s/90s iirc to start more aggressively treating pain, to try to alleviate the suffering and to enable people to work and live thier lives (as chronic pain can be very debilitating).
now there's perhaps been a bit of an overshoot in pain treatment, from a prior position that was probably an undershoot.
congress and other government levels have been doing a lot of work on the opioid issue.
that much I do know.
I don't think the pain control criticism is strictly about chronic pain. There's a lot of stories that go like this: - Person is in accident and gets hurt
- Person is in pain
- Pain causes doctor to prescribe opioid
- Person who has nothing to do but sit around all day depressed because they're injured and may not be able to do the things they could before has prescription to highly addictive pain killer
- Obvious conclusion
- New Drug addict who may eventually be too poor for pills and will turn to the cheapest opioid available (heroin if they're lucky, fentanyl if they're not).
The addiction has a lot more do with this type of situation I think. Opioid prescriptions outside of chronic pain should be looked at very skeptically. Especially for young people.
That is a fault of the doctor for proscribing highly addictive powerful painkillers for a prolonger period of time.
A family member of mine got put on less powerful painkillers and told he would have to deal with the discomfort for a while precisely because of this potential addiction issue.
Just another symptom of the bad healthcare system of the US.
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On December 07 2016 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:On December 07 2016 05:26 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:05 ticklishmusic wrote:
women are getting IUD's b/c they're worried birth control will be hard to get for the next 4 years. there is news about minority students being harassed by not only other students but also teachers because "its trump's america". i have a gay friend who had to be hospitalized for a little while after the election for reasons i won't go into. shit like this is already happening.
meanwhile, xdaunt's complains about how expensive daycare is. I'd consider your arguments fair if you showed the same amount of empathy (sympathy) to the working class voters who have had their jobs destroyed and infiltrated and replaced with drugs, while not even being a part of political discourse. Mention the violence against trump supporters too, that's where your pseudo morality ends however because politics. and replaced with drugs Please do explain this statement Oo and for the working class. Yes I do sympathise with their plight but there is no easy answer (see reverting globalization) and the blame lies with their local politicians who fought tooth and nail to keep stuff like the coal industry going for as long as possible instead of looking ahead and shifting the economy into different fields. How many times has the Federal government been stopped from trying to move away from the coal industry only to be shut down by states? Their in a bad spot now because of the choices they made 10 years ago. That's how short term gains at the cost of long term effects works. I don't have any sort of direct evidence for that statement, but I suspect that there is a strong direct inverse correlation between drug abuse and economic opportunity. The areas that have been devastated by a loss of manufacturing jobs are one example. Drug addiction is literally an erosion of the frontal cortex where your will power and thus the capacity for personal responsibility originate from so it is a bit hard for me to blame them on that front. This is also exacerbated by another major shitshow in medicine, pain control. Doctors are taught from day 1 to trust the complaints of the patient, and prescribe accordingly. Controlling pain is given more weight than a possible suspected development of addiction. Combine these variables and you get a major opioid epidemic. If your doctors are taught to trust the complaints of the patient then its no wonder your healthcare is in the sorry state its in. The mind can work wonderful tricks to convince the body and the person that there is something wrong with them for completely unrelated reasons. You shouldn't ignore it when a patient comes in with a complaint but you sure shouldn't completely trust them either and just proscribe something for an ailment you can find no evidence of during an examination.
The thing is pain is an unverifiable complaint if there's legitimate circumstances around it and it causes issues.
Like when is it ok to prescribe strong painkiller for someone who was just in a bad car accident and has broken bones and other injuries? Obviously the person is going to be in some pain, but when does that pain outweigh the risk of addiction? It's not an easy line to draw given that people experience pain much differently (say like Redheads experience more pain than non-redheads).
It doesn't need to be a long term prescription. Certain types of rehab can take months, and even if it doesn't the pain killers can be highly addictive in very short amount of time especially if the person exceeded the dosage or does other shady things with them.
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On December 07 2016 07:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:50 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 07 2016 06:13 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 06:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
why would i be excited to see changes which will likely negatively affect me to some degree and probably a lot of people to a large degree? If you're not intellectually curious in all things political, then you wouldn't be. xdaunt once again is unable to make an argument and resorts to a cute insult. There's no insult here. I'm merely stating the obvious. If you aren't intellectually curious enough in politics to put aside your own political preferences and look at what Trump's doing clinically, then you're not going to be excited by any of this. You can't have it both ways.
excited generally indicates some sort of enthusiasm or has otherwise positive connotations - one would not be excited about what the joker would do next, though they might be curious or dreading it. rather poor choice of words on your part, wouldn't you say?
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On December 07 2016 07:09 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:04 zlefin wrote:
bio -> pain control is complicated. living with pain is very difficult and very hard.
so there was a movement sometime in the 80s/90s iirc to start more aggressively treating pain, to try to alleviate the suffering and to enable people to work and live thier lives (as chronic pain can be very debilitating).
now there's perhaps been a bit of an overshoot in pain treatment, from a prior position that was probably an undershoot.
congress and other government levels have been doing a lot of work on the opioid issue.
that much I do know.
I agree with the philosophy of aggressively managing pain, we don't have good meds for it given the side effects, and secondly pain is subjective so it is hard to assess and relies on trust. Just not a good situation to be in.
It's just a tough issue with few good answers; the current crisis is a result of aggressive pain management;
it is quite hard to assess pain, and it is indeed very subjective; there are a number of mechanisms in place to deal with addiction resulting from it.
but it is being worked on. quite possibly being worked on more than when it was just poor black neighborhoods having problems with drugs, but I'm not sure at all about that.
agree it's certainly a bad situation to be in.
logo -> aye, that's a good part of it; a result of the approach of more aggressive pain management.
as with many things in medicine, there's lots of risks and side-effects, and it's tough to decide what's best for each person.
having people just accept more pain for major but temporary things may well be the best plan.
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On December 07 2016 07:13 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 06:50 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 07 2016 06:13 xDaunt wrote:On December 07 2016 06:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
why would i be excited to see changes which will likely negatively affect me to some degree and probably a lot of people to a large degree? If you're not intellectually curious in all things political, then you wouldn't be. xdaunt once again is unable to make an argument and resorts to a cute insult. There's no insult here. I'm merely stating the obvious. If you aren't intellectually curious enough in politics to put aside your own political preferences and look at what Trump's doing clinically, then you're not going to be excited by any of this. You can't have it both ways. excited generally indicates some sort of enthusiasm or has otherwise positive connotations - one would not be excited about what the joker would do next, though they might be curious or dreading it. rather poor choice of words on your part, wouldn't you say?
No, excited is the right term.
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For what it's worth
+ Show Spoiler +
is a pretty legit documentary that follows a few people struggling with heroin and you get a look at the prescription pain killers -> heroin path a lot of them took.
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On December 07 2016 07:12 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:08 Gorsameth wrote:On December 07 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:49 Gorsameth wrote:On December 07 2016 05:26 biology]major wrote:On December 07 2016 05:05 ticklishmusic wrote:
women are getting IUD's b/c they're worried birth control will be hard to get for the next 4 years. there is news about minority students being harassed by not only other students but also teachers because "its trump's america". i have a gay friend who had to be hospitalized for a little while after the election for reasons i won't go into. shit like this is already happening.
meanwhile, xdaunt's complains about how expensive daycare is. I'd consider your arguments fair if you showed the same amount of empathy (sympathy) to the working class voters who have had their jobs destroyed and infiltrated and replaced with drugs, while not even being a part of political discourse. Mention the violence against trump supporters too, that's where your pseudo morality ends however because politics. and replaced with drugs Please do explain this statement Oo and for the working class. Yes I do sympathise with their plight but there is no easy answer (see reverting globalization) and the blame lies with their local politicians who fought tooth and nail to keep stuff like the coal industry going for as long as possible instead of looking ahead and shifting the economy into different fields. How many times has the Federal government been stopped from trying to move away from the coal industry only to be shut down by states? Their in a bad spot now because of the choices they made 10 years ago. That's how short term gains at the cost of long term effects works. I don't have any sort of direct evidence for that statement, but I suspect that there is a strong direct inverse correlation between drug abuse and economic opportunity. The areas that have been devastated by a loss of manufacturing jobs are one example. Drug addiction is literally an erosion of the frontal cortex where your will power and thus the capacity for personal responsibility originate from so it is a bit hard for me to blame them on that front. This is also exacerbated by another major shitshow in medicine, pain control. Doctors are taught from day 1 to trust the complaints of the patient, and prescribe accordingly. Controlling pain is given more weight than a possible suspected development of addiction. Combine these variables and you get a major opioid epidemic. If your doctors are taught to trust the complaints of the patient then its no wonder your healthcare is in the sorry state its in. The mind can work wonderful tricks to convince the body and the person that there is something wrong with them for completely unrelated reasons. You shouldn't ignore it when a patient comes in with a complaint but you sure shouldn't completely trust them either and just proscribe something for an ailment you can find no evidence of during an examination. The thing is pain is an unverifiable complaint if there's legitimate circumstances around it and it causes issues. Like when is it ok to prescribe strong painkiller for someone who was just in a bad car accident and has broken bones and other injuries? Obviously the person is going to be in some pain, but when does that pain outweigh the risk of addiction? It's not an easy line to draw given that people experience pain much differently (say like Redheads experience more pain than non-redheads). It doesn't need to be a long term prescription. Certain types of rehab can take months, and even if it doesn't the pain killers can be highly addictive in very short amount of time especially if the person exceeded the dosage or does other shady things with them.
It is of course a difficult subject and I can certainly see that at times there is little other option but to give someone enough to get addicted. But if handled carefully I highly doubt this would lead to enough cases to cause an epidemic. You get that from negligent proscription.
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EPT
