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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5791

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 27 2016 23:38 GMT
#115801
Liberals are all about personal responsibility when it is applicable. It amusing that people claim otherwise.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-27 23:39:28
October 27 2016 23:39 GMT
#115802
If you believe that the government has an essential role to play in providing access to education, you aren't a conservative in US terms.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44372 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-27 23:40:32
October 27 2016 23:40 GMT
#115803
On October 28 2016 08:38 IgnE wrote:
The Twisted Business of Donating Plasma

Show nested quote +
Since 2008, plasma pharmaceuticals have leapt from $4 billion to a more than $11 billion annual market. Donors desperate for the cash incentive from high-frequency "plassing" may be putting their health, and the public's, at risk.


It does seem a bit cruel to suggest to a minimum wage worker that donating plasma twice a week is the road to financial security when that worker has to replace the plasma being siphoned off on his or her ramen diet and lack of sleep.

A bit like Vampire: The Masquerade. No?

Yeah, I've not only read that article, I've actually been to that specific plasma location. It's sanctimonious bullshit that converts people trying to improve their lives into a faceless exploited mass who must be protected from their own ignorant choices. Hell, there's a fair chance I've met some of the people he spoke to about that article. Fuck that guy. Seriously.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44372 Posts
October 27 2016 23:41 GMT
#115804
On October 28 2016 08:39 farvacola wrote:
If you believe that the government has an essential role to play in providing access to education, you aren't a conservative in US terms.

And I'll keep voting Democrat (well, when I can vote in the election after this one) until they work out where they're losing me and decide they want my vote.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
October 27 2016 23:42 GMT
#115805
On October 28 2016 08:40 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2016 08:38 IgnE wrote:
The Twisted Business of Donating Plasma

Since 2008, plasma pharmaceuticals have leapt from $4 billion to a more than $11 billion annual market. Donors desperate for the cash incentive from high-frequency "plassing" may be putting their health, and the public's, at risk.


It does seem a bit cruel to suggest to a minimum wage worker that donating plasma twice a week is the road to financial security when that worker has to replace the plasma being siphoned off on his or her ramen diet and lack of sleep.

A bit like Vampire: The Masquerade. No?

Yeah, I've not only read that article, I've actually been to that specific plasma location. It's sanctimonious bullshit that converts people trying to improve their lives into a faceless exploited mass who must be protected from their own ignorant choices. Hell, there's a fair chance I've met some of the people he spoke to about that article. Fuck that guy. Seriously.


So would you say the same thing if people were donating their kidneys . . . or do you just think donating blood plasma twice a week for 45 years is totally harmless?
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44372 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-27 23:46:19
October 27 2016 23:45 GMT
#115806
On October 28 2016 08:42 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2016 08:40 KwarK wrote:
On October 28 2016 08:38 IgnE wrote:
The Twisted Business of Donating Plasma

Since 2008, plasma pharmaceuticals have leapt from $4 billion to a more than $11 billion annual market. Donors desperate for the cash incentive from high-frequency "plassing" may be putting their health, and the public's, at risk.


It does seem a bit cruel to suggest to a minimum wage worker that donating plasma twice a week is the road to financial security when that worker has to replace the plasma being siphoned off on his or her ramen diet and lack of sleep.

A bit like Vampire: The Masquerade. No?

Yeah, I've not only read that article, I've actually been to that specific plasma location. It's sanctimonious bullshit that converts people trying to improve their lives into a faceless exploited mass who must be protected from their own ignorant choices. Hell, there's a fair chance I've met some of the people he spoke to about that article. Fuck that guy. Seriously.


So would you say the same thing if people were donating their kidneys . . . or do you just think donating blood plasma twice a week for 45 years is totally harmless?

I'd donate a kidney for a price. Hell, if you put someone who needed one and was compatible in front of me I'd probably give them one for free. Humans do just fine with one. But there again I'm into donating bits of myself, I've previously cured cancer for example.

I'd draw the line at things people only have one of though, assuming they need them.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-27 23:49:27
October 27 2016 23:48 GMT
#115807
I wasn't asking whether you would donate a kidney for some undisclosed price. I was asking whether you think requiring a donation at market-price is an acceptable solution to poverty.

*edited for clarity
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 27 2016 23:49 GMT
#115808
Kidneys don't grow back. I replace any plasma, blood or marrow lose.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
October 27 2016 23:52 GMT
#115809
Unless you are giving it twice a week, maybe, in order to make the "payments" on your bare bones retirement plan like Kwark suggests.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 28 2016 00:00 GMT
#115810
I'd rather fill out online surveys for money than "donate" bodily fluids to pay for a retirement account that I wouldn't live to ever use if I did that. At least that wouldn't be a health hazard.

Both strike me as the kind of thing that younguns with more health and time than common sense would do. Reminds me of the people I know who considered themselves really clever for saving $5 by changing their own oil, but then wouldn't stop getting pulled over by the police for driving stupidly (costing a good $300 a pop).
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44372 Posts
October 28 2016 00:00 GMT
#115811
On October 28 2016 08:48 IgnE wrote:
I wasn't asking whether you would donate a kidney for some undisclosed price. I was asking whether you think requiring a donation at market-price is an acceptable solution to poverty.

*edited for clarity

I think organs represent a moral hazard but I don't know that I'd rule kidneys out. A lot of people die waiting for them and a lot of people in great health have spares. It's a tricky one. Both parties benefit greatly from the transaction.

Oddly enough kidney donors have better long term health outcomes than the general population (selection bias). I looked into it quite a lot a while back, I was considering non directed kidney donation (you donate it to whoever needs it without knowing who). With appropriate safeguards I may lean kidney sale legalization. But we're a long way from plasma at this point.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2016 00:39 GMT
#115812


Apparently terrorism is cool if your white. I can't even right now.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 28 2016 00:42 GMT
#115813
On October 28 2016 09:39 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/791790348007792642

Apparently terrorism is cool if your white. I can't even right now.

The death count was atrocious.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
October 28 2016 00:42 GMT
#115814
On October 28 2016 06:21 KwarK wrote:
Bullshit. I refuse to believe that I'm as exceptionally gifted as you guys are insisting that I am.


Wait, what is it you're studying to handle? Golf balls? Endangered frogs? Fireworks?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24385 Posts
October 28 2016 00:42 GMT
#115815
On October 28 2016 09:39 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/791790348007792642

Apparently terrorism is cool if your white. I can't even right now.


Aww come on, it was just some good ol' boys enjoying a month+ long armed occupation of a government building. What's criminal about that?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2016 00:43 GMT
#115816
On October 28 2016 09:42 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2016 09:39 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/791790348007792642

Apparently terrorism is cool if your white. I can't even right now.

The death count was atrocious.

Its not my fault they are shitty terrorist.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 28 2016 00:45 GMT
#115817
On October 28 2016 09:42 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2016 09:39 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/791790348007792642

Apparently terrorism is cool if your white. I can't even right now.


Aww come on, it was just some good ol' boys enjoying a month+ long armed occupation of a government building. What's criminal about that?

Nothing is wrong, they are white. They would never be violent towards police or the government. Its just protesting with the threat of gun violence if you try to stop them. But we got some unarmed brown people protesting a pipeline, so we better send dogs after them and arrest reporters that cover the story.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 28 2016 00:47 GMT
#115818
On October 28 2016 04:08 LegalLord wrote:
Obamacare is strictly worse than single payer socialized healthcare as far as I'm concerned, but it's a large step in the right direction and it's the only healthcare overhaul that had a chance of passing.

Hey, at least you're honest! If bad overhauls pass muster because of ideological attachment to the weather vane, we can remember this is a fight to the end.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-28 00:52:08
October 28 2016 00:48 GMT
#115819
On October 28 2016 09:00 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2016 08:48 IgnE wrote:
I wasn't asking whether you would donate a kidney for some undisclosed price. I was asking whether you think requiring a donation at market-price is an acceptable solution to poverty.

*edited for clarity

I think organs represent a moral hazard but I don't know that I'd rule kidneys out. A lot of people die waiting for them and a lot of people in great health have spares. It's a tricky one. Both parties benefit greatly from the transaction.

Oddly enough kidney donors have better long term health outcomes than the general population (selection bias). I looked into it quite a lot a while back, I was considering non directed kidney donation (you donate it to whoever needs it without knowing who). With appropriate safeguards I may lean kidney sale legalization. But we're a long way from plasma at this point.


but then the problem is that in the kidney free market its probably poor people who give up a kidney for 20-30k (making this up). and then the poor people have one kidney, and poor people have worse health so their one kidney goes kaput.

iirc iran has a program kidney purchase program that works. its like 5k or something.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 28 2016 00:49 GMT
#115820
Voters care more about Congress and the next president controlling the price of prescription drugs than they do about changes to President Barack Obama's health care law, shows a poll released Thursday by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

But that doesn't mean voters aren't interested in the future of the health care law as well: The poll found 60 percent of Republicans and 40 percent of Independents believe Obamacare should be repealed, and 17 percent of Democrats said the same.

About an equal share of people – one third – want to see the next president and Congress repeal the entire law as want to see them expand what the law does.

The poll comes less than two weeks before Election Day and finds that health care isn't a top issue for voters – it falls behind other issues like the economy, foreign policy and even the candidates themselves.

Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump has vowed to repeal Obamacare if elected and has presented various conservative measures to reform health care, while his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, has put forward proposals to strengthen the Affordable Care Act. More voters reported that they feel they have a good understanding of Clinton's proposal than they do of Trump's, but they also feel the candidates' positions are "very different."

Clinton's plan includes a public option, a proposal Obama also says would improve the law. Overall, about two-thirds of voters say they favor a public health insurance option to compete with private health insurance plans in the Obamacare exchanges, but how the proposal is described – whether as a "public health insurance option" or a "government-administered public health insurance option" – affects people's level of support.

The views of those surveyed also shift when they hear arguments against the public option, including that doctors or hospitals would be paid less under a public option or when they hear that the government would have an unfair advantage over private insurers.

The candidates have similar positions on how to rein in the cost of prescription drugs. Both have proposed allowing Medicare to set drug prices. On average, 74 percent of surveyed voters said drugs should be made affordable to people with chronic conditions who need them.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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