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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18864 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 14:03:25
October 10 2016 14:03 GMT
#109581
On October 10 2016 23:00 Broetchenholer wrote:
I don't believe there is any merit for discussion the candidates at this point. Who hasn't changed his mind after all that ime will not change now. Who still sticks with Trump cannot be changed even if he killed someone on tape. Clinton might lose voters to not voting, but only if she actually shot someone on tape. Both won't happen, so just chill until the elction.

Everything is about turnout now.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 14:18:50
October 10 2016 14:10 GMT
#109582
On October 10 2016 21:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2016 21:06 NukeD wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:52 zeo wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:35 zf wrote:
On October 10 2016 19:57 TheDwf wrote:
Also, how do you guys...
So this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are. That’s why — to go back to your question — I want to send a message — we all should — to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.

... can bear such moral platitudes? When reading those things, it always seems like the candidates are talking to 8 years old children. It's almost insulting.

Two-thirds of Americans voters do not hold a bachelor's degree, and many voters cast their ballots based on likability. The bolded sentence also isn't as bad as it might seem.

Edit: I didn't know that there were 112 Trump supporters on Team Liquid.

There aren't, some Clinton troll is botting the polls to 'prove a point'. Sad really, should have stopped after the last fiasco.

What point is he trying to prove? I didn't realise this was done by a Clinton fan.

And this is how really dumb right wing conspiracy theories start. You guys are pure gold.

I tought it was explained at the last few pages about who it was etc. I didnt look trough the last few pages so thats why i asked.

EDIT: It was also reasonable to assume that it was found out somewhere along the thread that some Clinton guy did, from how zeo worded his post.
sorry for dem one liners
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44124 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 14:50:44
October 10 2016 14:39 GMT
#109583
Florida is currently polling at 70/30 in favour of Clinton. Nevada is the same. North Carolina is at 65/35, Trump having only a 30 point deficit. Early voting in Florida starts in two weeks.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44124 Posts
October 10 2016 14:41 GMT
#109584
On October 10 2016 23:10 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2016 21:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 10 2016 21:06 NukeD wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:52 zeo wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:35 zf wrote:
On October 10 2016 19:57 TheDwf wrote:
Also, how do you guys...
So this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are. That’s why — to go back to your question — I want to send a message — we all should — to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.

... can bear such moral platitudes? When reading those things, it always seems like the candidates are talking to 8 years old children. It's almost insulting.

Two-thirds of Americans voters do not hold a bachelor's degree, and many voters cast their ballots based on likability. The bolded sentence also isn't as bad as it might seem.

Edit: I didn't know that there were 112 Trump supporters on Team Liquid.

There aren't, some Clinton troll is botting the polls to 'prove a point'. Sad really, should have stopped after the last fiasco.

What point is he trying to prove? I didn't realise this was done by a Clinton fan.

And this is how really dumb right wing conspiracy theories start. You guys are pure gold.

I tought it was explained at the last few pages about who it was etc. I didnt look trough the last few pages so thats why i asked.

EDIT: It was also reasonable to assume that it was found out somewhere along the thread that some Clinton guy did, from how zeo worded his post.

Zeo decided that because it was so obviously dumb that someone would try and bot a tl poll in favour of Trump the only possible explanation was that it was a Clinton supporter. He's been repeating this over and over. There is no evidence to support it which is probably why it fits in so neatly with the rest of his world view which is built on a lack of evidence.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 14:42:29
October 10 2016 14:42 GMT
#109585
Kwark, I think that reads a little confusingly. (the polling part)
Moderator
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8112 Posts
October 10 2016 14:56 GMT
#109586
On October 10 2016 23:10 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2016 21:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On October 10 2016 21:06 NukeD wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:52 zeo wrote:
On October 10 2016 20:35 zf wrote:
On October 10 2016 19:57 TheDwf wrote:
Also, how do you guys...
So this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we are. That’s why — to go back to your question — I want to send a message — we all should — to every boy and girl and, indeed, to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another, and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.

... can bear such moral platitudes? When reading those things, it always seems like the candidates are talking to 8 years old children. It's almost insulting.

Two-thirds of Americans voters do not hold a bachelor's degree, and many voters cast their ballots based on likability. The bolded sentence also isn't as bad as it might seem.

Edit: I didn't know that there were 112 Trump supporters on Team Liquid.

There aren't, some Clinton troll is botting the polls to 'prove a point'. Sad really, should have stopped after the last fiasco.

What point is he trying to prove? I didn't realise this was done by a Clinton fan.

And this is how really dumb right wing conspiracy theories start. You guys are pure gold.

I tought it was explained at the last few pages about who it was etc. I didnt look trough the last few pages so thats why i asked.

EDIT: It was also reasonable to assume that it was found out somewhere along the thread that some Clinton guy did, from how zeo worded his post.

Yes and somewhat everybody read that, immediately thought "whaaaaaaaaat?" except for you who took him seriously and started a discussion.

Again, that's how conspiracy theories start; because when it suits your pov, you guys just switch off any critical awarness and stop wondering if that miiight be bullshit.

Accidentally that's also the history if this campaign and this thread.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9217 Posts
October 10 2016 15:40 GMT
#109587
In the nearly half century history of Foreign Policy, the editors of this publication have never endorsed a candidate for political office. We cherish and fiercely protect this publication’s independence and its reputation for objectivity, and we deeply value our relationship with all of our readers, regardless of political orientation.

It is for all these reasons that FP’s editors are now breaking with tradition to endorse Hillary Clinton for the next president of the United States.

Our readers depend on FP for insight and analysis into issues of national security and foreign policy. We feel that our obligation to our readers thus extends now to making clear the great magnitude of the threat that a Donald Trump presidency would pose to the United States. The dangers Trump presents as president stretch beyond the United States to the international economy, to global security, to America’s allies, as well as to countless innocents everywhere who would be the victims of his inexperience, his perverse policy views, and the profound unsuitability of his temperament for the office he seeks.

The litany of reasons Trump poses such a threat is so long that it is, in fact, shocking that he is a major party’s candidate for the presidency. The recent furor over his vile behavior with women illustrates the extraordinary nature of his unsuitability, as does his repudiation by so many members of his own party — who have so many reasons to reflexively support their nominee.

Beyond this, however, in the areas in which we at FP specialize, he has repeatedly demonstrated his ignorance of the most basic facts of international affairs, let alone the nuances so crucial to the responsibilities of diplomacy inherent in the U.S. president’s daily responsibilities. Trump has not only promoted the leadership of a tyrant and menace like Vladimir Putin, but he has welcomed Russian meddling in the current U.S. election. He has alternatively forgiven then defended Russia’s invasion of Crimea and employed advisors with close ties to the Russian president and his cronies. Trump has spoken so cavalierly about the use of nuclear weapons, including a repeated willingness to use them against terrorists, that it has become clear he understands little if anything about America's nuclear policies — not to mention the moral, legal, and human consequences of such actions. He has embraced the use of torture and the violation of international law against it. He has suggested he would ignore America’s treaty obligations and would only conditionally support allies in need. He has repeatedly insulted Mexico and proposed policies that would inflame and damage one of America’s most vital trading relationships with that country.

Trump has played into the hands of terrorists with his fearmongering, with his sweeping and unwarranted vilification of Muslims, and by sensationalizing the threat they pose. He has promised to take punitive actions against America’s Pacific trading partners that would be devastating to the world economy and in violation of our legal obligations. He has dismissed the science of climate change and denied its looming and dangerous reality. He has promoted a delusional and narcissistic view of the world, one in which he seems to feel that the power of his personality in negotiations could redirect the course of other nations, remake or supplant treaties, and contain those tyrants he does not actually embrace.

[...]

[...] she would enter office having already put down one great threat to the United States of America — the grotesque and deeply disturbing prospect of a Donald Trump presidency.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09/foreign-policy-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states/
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 15:45 GMT
#109588
Of all the people whose FP you could go out and endorse, Hillary Clinton is one of the worst.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 10 2016 15:47 GMT
#109589
Yes, but they are staring down the double barrel of a mad man and the world is a scary place. So by that metric, she is not the worst.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 10 2016 15:51 GMT
#109590
mad man or a corrupt liar that is being controlled by the establishment?

At least a mad person can sometimes do some good unlike a rotten one.
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9217 Posts
October 10 2016 15:52 GMT
#109591
She's competing with a guy that demonstrated countless times that he knows absolutely nothing about international affairs, and worst of all he's done it in a 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge' kind of way.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18864 Posts
October 10 2016 15:53 GMT
#109592
On October 11 2016 00:51 parkufarku wrote:
mad man or a corrupt liar that is being controlled by the establishment?

At least a mad person can sometimes do some good unlike a rotten one.

You mean like appoint justices who will roll back decisions like Roe v. Wade?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 15:54 GMT
#109593
John Rambo McCain is far worse than Trump on FP, if we're looking for a madman that we can say will make the world a dangerous place. Not that I'm a fan of Trump's on the FP front (he has some obvious blundering failures) but to say he is historically bad is to buy into a very idiotic and inaccurate narrative about relative FP prowess.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 15:54:36
October 10 2016 15:54 GMT
#109594
On October 11 2016 00:51 parkufarku wrote:
mad man or a corrupt liar that is being controlled by the establishment?

At least a mad person can sometimes do some good unlike a rotten one.

I think it's amazing that Trump supporters have reached the point to where they say his unstable nature is a good thing. Oh well.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 15:56:16
October 10 2016 15:55 GMT
#109595
On October 11 2016 00:51 parkufarku wrote:
mad man or a corrupt liar that is being controlled by the establishment?

At least a mad person can sometimes do some good unlike a rotten one.


Why did you give me the choice between picking Trump or Trump here? Unless you're saying Trump is not a corrupt liar controlled by the establishment, which is a pretty laughable thing to say in my mind.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 10 2016 15:59 GMT
#109596
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 10 2016 15:59 GMT
#109597
On October 11 2016 00:54 LegalLord wrote:
John Rambo McCain is far worse than Trump on FP, if we're looking for a madman that we can say will make the world a dangerous place. Not that I'm a fan of Trump's on the FP front (he has some obvious blundering failures) but to say he is historically bad is to buy into a very idiotic and inaccurate narrative about relative FP prowess.

I disagree. I find trump's foreign policy blunders to be on a fundamentally worse level; and I find it to be quite accurate.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 16:03:22
October 10 2016 16:01 GMT
#109598
On October 11 2016 00:54 LegalLord wrote:
John Rambo McCain is far worse than Trump on FP, if we're looking for a madman that we can say will make the world a dangerous place. Not that I'm a fan of Trump's on the FP front (he has some obvious blundering failures) but to say he is historically bad is to buy into a very idiotic and inaccurate narrative about relative FP prowess.


Another ridiculous false equivalency.

Clinton has made several foreign policy errors, but the idea that she is somehow the worst ever or is in any way comparable to Trump is utterly ridiculous.

Trump constantly demonstrates that he knows nothing about FP and repeatedly makes incredibly dangerous and unhinged claims that would be a direct threat to our standing in the international community. You absolutely cannot compare someone who has made many FP mistakes (Clinton) and someone who has zero knowledge of the subject and yet still insists on making incredibly horrific proposals (Trump).

The same applies to McCain. McCain may be your textbook warmongering old-school Republican, but in what world does that mean he's worse than Trump? How can you possibly defend Trump's incredibly fragile ego, volatile behavior, and complete and utter ignorance of any foreign policy-related issue as "better than McCain or Clinton"?

We get it, you don't like Clinton, but you make yourself look less credible when you say, "Yea, Trump is bad so I'm probably not going to vote for him, but Clinton is so incredibly terrible..." all the time.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 16:03:37
October 10 2016 16:02 GMT
#109599
Trump tried to claim that destroying military ship from another nation, without provocation, would not be considered an act of war. The man knows nothing and has a gross misunderstanding of how international relationships work on a level I have never seen in modern politics.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 16:03:43
October 10 2016 16:03 GMT
#109600
On October 11 2016 01:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:
We get it, you don't like Clinton, but you make yourself look less credible when you say, "Yea, Trump is bad so I'm probably not going to vote for him, but Clinton is so incredibly terrible..." all the time.

As opposed to "I don't like Clinton but I'm going to repeat her talking points because Trump is so bad that anything is justified" which is perfectly valid?

Get your head out of your ass. It's perfectly possible to criticize two candidates at once, and badness is not only relative.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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