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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5361

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 07 2016 01:26 GMT
#107201
The federal government is investigating prisons throughout Alabama in an inquiry that is “possibly unprecedented”. The investigation comes after a series of strikes and riots that have revealed the state’s prisons are in turmoil.

“It’s a giant investigation. This is rare,” said Lisa Graybill, a staff attorney for the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is conducting an investigation of its own. Previously Graybill worked for the federal unit that will investigate Alabama, and said the closest comparison in memory was an examination of Puerto Rico’s juvenile jails. “Taking on a whole state is unusual and possibly unprecedented,” she said.

According to the Department of Justice (DoJ) the investigation will focus on whether prisoners are protected from physical and sexual abuse by other prisoners and guards, and whether living conditions are sanitary and safe in general at men’s prisons.

Alabama’s prisons – particularly the notorious Holman prison – were at the forefront of a nationwide call for prisoners to strike from work, last month. On 9 September prisoners across the US began a strike that lasted several days, in some places. And at Holman, guards joined striking prisoners by staying home from work.

Those strikes also came on the heels of two riots at Holman. During the riot inmates had stabbed warden Carter Davenport and another guard. They set fire to the dorm and carried prison-made swords. The warden and guard survived the attack, and special security squads swept in to quash the riot. But a few days later another riot started after one inmate stabbed another. Davenport, who declined to speak with the Guardian about the unrest, recently resigned his position.

“Our obligation is to protect the civil rights of all citizens, including those who are incarcerated,” US attorney Joyce White Vance, of northern Alabama, wrote in a press briefing on Thursday.

Her counterpart in southern Alabama, US attorney Kenyen R Brown, said prisoners “should expect sanitary conditions of habitation that are free of physical harm and sexual abuse”.

Graybill said the uproar has pulled back a veil that previously obscured Alabama’s prison conditions. Litigation in California and Arizona have recently brought reform but Alabama’s prisons are the most overcrowded, operating at about 183% capacity. “There is a national recognition that Alabama is in crisis,” Graybill said.

The federal government is stepping in because although prisons are run by states, they are beholden to the US constitution.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 07 2016 04:08 GMT
#107202
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 07:47 Saryph wrote:
Please tell me he got hacked or something:



This is pretty stupid

This shit happens every year in Florida it's hurricane season.

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

ThinkProgress ran a piece I linked to earlier. Weather vs Climate & the line between predicting more frequent hurricanes in future (the 'extreme weather events' crowd) and diagnosing current phenomenon as warming-caused.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
October 07 2016 04:09 GMT
#107203
Donald the first nominee in history to not receive a major newspaper endorsement.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 04:19:08
October 07 2016 04:16 GMT
#107204
On October 07 2016 13:08 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:47 Saryph wrote:
Please tell me he got hacked or something:

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/784121449606852608


This is pretty stupid

This shit happens every year in Florida it's hurricane season.

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

ThinkProgress ran a piece I linked to earlier. Weather vs Climate & the line between predicting more frequent hurricanes in future (the 'extreme weather events' crowd) and diagnosing current phenomenon as warming-caused.


Well climate change increases the chance for more extreme weather events to occur including this one. Whether some single event "is caused by climate change" isn't really a question that makes sense. The probability and frequency simply goes up. Human influence on climate is real and climate is responsible for weather events. There's not two categories "caused by man/not caused by man"
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 07 2016 04:44 GMT
#107205
On October 07 2016 13:16 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 13:08 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:47 Saryph wrote:
Please tell me he got hacked or something:

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/784121449606852608


This is pretty stupid

This shit happens every year in Florida it's hurricane season.

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

ThinkProgress ran a piece I linked to earlier. Weather vs Climate & the line between predicting more frequent hurricanes in future (the 'extreme weather events' crowd) and diagnosing current phenomenon as warming-caused.


Well climate change increases the chance for more extreme weather events to occur including this one. Whether some single event "is caused by climate change" isn't really a question that makes sense. The probability and frequency simply goes up. Human influence on climate is real and climate is responsible for weather events. There's not two categories "caused by man/not caused by man"

I responded in context of the thinkprogress piece, which I linked in a twitter link/response earlier. So does it go to far in blaming GW for this specific weather event? And if it doesn't go to far, why get mad when skeptics bring up cold years as evidence against AGW?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42978 Posts
October 07 2016 04:58 GMT
#107206
On October 07 2016 13:44 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 13:16 Nyxisto wrote:
On October 07 2016 13:08 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:47 Saryph wrote:
Please tell me he got hacked or something:

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/784121449606852608


This is pretty stupid

This shit happens every year in Florida it's hurricane season.

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

ThinkProgress ran a piece I linked to earlier. Weather vs Climate & the line between predicting more frequent hurricanes in future (the 'extreme weather events' crowd) and diagnosing current phenomenon as warming-caused.


Well climate change increases the chance for more extreme weather events to occur including this one. Whether some single event "is caused by climate change" isn't really a question that makes sense. The probability and frequency simply goes up. Human influence on climate is real and climate is responsible for weather events. There's not two categories "caused by man/not caused by man"

I responded in context of the thinkprogress piece, which I linked in a twitter link/response earlier. So does it go to far in blaming GW for this specific weather event? And if it doesn't go to far, why get mad when skeptics bring up cold years as evidence against AGW?

Often the cold years they're bringing up aren't actually historically cold years, they're just colder than it's been in the last few years due to a few years of exceptionally warm weather. Sometimes the cold years they're bringing up are actually cold seasons and the cold season in question is called winter and it's meant to be there.

But you're right, sometimes people try and have it both ways. Sometimes irregular weather does happen which is why you cannot conclude much from a single data point. What global warming people are aiming for is "wow, another storm of the century, that's the fourth one this year, if each one has a 1% chance of taking place in any given year of the century then the odds of four in the same year are exceptionally low, unless there is some other factor like climate change". Now it's perfectly possible that three of the four storms are climate change and the fourth would have happened anyway which is why it's dumb to point at any specific one and say "that's global warming". But it's not dumb to look at improbable groupings.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 05:10:48
October 07 2016 05:09 GMT
#107207
On October 07 2016 13:44 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 13:16 Nyxisto wrote:
On October 07 2016 13:08 Danglars wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On October 07 2016 07:47 Saryph wrote:
Please tell me he got hacked or something:

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/784121449606852608


This is pretty stupid

This shit happens every year in Florida it's hurricane season.

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

ThinkProgress ran a piece I linked to earlier. Weather vs Climate & the line between predicting more frequent hurricanes in future (the 'extreme weather events' crowd) and diagnosing current phenomenon as warming-caused.


Well climate change increases the chance for more extreme weather events to occur including this one. Whether some single event "is caused by climate change" isn't really a question that makes sense. The probability and frequency simply goes up. Human influence on climate is real and climate is responsible for weather events. There's not two categories "caused by man/not caused by man"

I responded in context of the thinkprogress piece, which I linked in a twitter link/response earlier. So does it go to far in blaming GW for this specific weather event? And if it doesn't go to far, why get mad when skeptics bring up cold years as evidence against AGW?


I didn't see that link earlier and couldn't find it right now so I can't comment on that specific content, but you can blame GW for this specific weather event in the same way you can/can't blame Fukushima for a Fukushima cancer victim. Is it possible that the cancer was caused due to the man made plant radiation or due to the natural background radiation? Nobody knows, but increasing radiation increases your risk to get cancer. Same in this case, blame assignment isn't necessary, but it'd be foolish to assert that radiation damage isn't real or that humans don't contribute to it.
Shingi11
Profile Joined May 2016
290 Posts
October 07 2016 06:20 GMT
#107208
http://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2016/10/scott-wont-extend-voter-registration-deadline-as-hurricane-matthew-approaches-106172

I can already smell the lawsuit. Hillery looks like she is going to crush trump but in that realty where we have the vote being close and hilary needs flordia we could have another bush vs gore. I give it too Republicans that if there is way to disfranchise people from voting they will find it.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
October 07 2016 06:32 GMT
#107209
Are there people here who don't think climate change is a thing and that we contribute to it with our emissions? Most reasonable people I've seen don't even argue those points, they just argue what, if any, policy decisions should be made. Denying these things at this point is just ignoring what the consensus of experts in the field has been for years.


In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 90 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years.

They said the rate of increase in global warming due to these gases is very likely to be unprecedented within the past 10,000 years or more. The panel's full Summary for Policymakers report is online at http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf.

Source
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18054 Posts
October 07 2016 06:38 GMT
#107210
On October 07 2016 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 05:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:23 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
and for some reason 2 of them cant get no funding


I'm presuming what I provided was satisfactory?

Is anyone else thinking Mook is delusional thinking turnout will be higher than 08/12? I don't understand why they would even be saying that?


you posted the two first links from googling 'clinton foundation haiti', and it seems you didn't even read the wapo factcheck one in full, which gives the original claim 4 pinnochios.

but anyway, you can continue to believe that your brief googling to find some anecdotal evidence on some less-than-successful efforts somehow trumps the publicly available audits and the reports by charity watchdog organizations. im really not interested in engaging with you further on the subject.


Clearly you didn't notice that I wasn't referencing the hospital at all. I see why you wouldn't want to engage.


let me try and explain this is a simple way for you: as demonstrated by the wapo, allegations of impropriety regarding the clinton foundation are pretty much bullshit.

and you went on to do some extreme connect-the-dots with helping haitian >>> florida and the 2000 presidential election. bless your heart.


Except that's not what was said, and like Trumps taking advantage of poorly written tax law, we're talking about doing bad things that are within the law (or at least appear so).

I didn't draw the connection to 2000 either, that was a quote from Acro's article. If you're going to act holier than thou at least try to keep up.

EDIT: for Rebs cosigning Ticklish's point which was about something I never even said. Holy crap people. Please reread the whole thing. I'm not going to keep correcting what was even said.

No? The article I posted didn't draw any connection with the 2000 election. It mentioned it as an example of how hotly contested a swing state Florida is, and thus emphasize the importance of all voting groups there, including the 150,000 Haitians, who normally vote Democrat, but might not like Clinton.

Note that the NYT article doesn't take a stance on whether actual wrongdoing occurred, but described how the Clintons are perceived by Haitians.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23298 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 06:50:16
October 07 2016 06:47 GMT
#107211
On October 07 2016 15:38 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:23 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 07 2016 05:08 ticklishmusic wrote:
and for some reason 2 of them cant get no funding


I'm presuming what I provided was satisfactory?

Is anyone else thinking Mook is delusional thinking turnout will be higher than 08/12? I don't understand why they would even be saying that?


you posted the two first links from googling 'clinton foundation haiti', and it seems you didn't even read the wapo factcheck one in full, which gives the original claim 4 pinnochios.

but anyway, you can continue to believe that your brief googling to find some anecdotal evidence on some less-than-successful efforts somehow trumps the publicly available audits and the reports by charity watchdog organizations. im really not interested in engaging with you further on the subject.


Clearly you didn't notice that I wasn't referencing the hospital at all. I see why you wouldn't want to engage.


let me try and explain this is a simple way for you: as demonstrated by the wapo, allegations of impropriety regarding the clinton foundation are pretty much bullshit.

and you went on to do some extreme connect-the-dots with helping haitian >>> florida and the 2000 presidential election. bless your heart.


Except that's not what was said, and like Trumps taking advantage of poorly written tax law, we're talking about doing bad things that are within the law (or at least appear so).

I didn't draw the connection to 2000 either, that was a quote from Acro's article. If you're going to act holier than thou at least try to keep up.

EDIT: for Rebs cosigning Ticklish's point which was about something I never even said. Holy crap people. Please reread the whole thing. I'm not going to keep correcting what was even said.

No? The article I posted didn't draw any connection with the 2000 election. It mentioned it as an example of how hotly contested a swing state Florida is, and thus emphasize the importance of all voting groups there, including the 150,000 Haitians, who normally vote Democrat, but might not like Clinton.

Note that the NYT article doesn't take a stance on whether actual wrongdoing occurred, but described how the Clintons are perceived by Haitians.


No, it drew the link between perception and potential political impact in Florida. My original point, which seems to have been completely lost by everyone who engaged with their version of it, was that she might not want to bring up disaster relief considering the Haiti baggage.

Though I am curious if anyone came across a comparable charity which derives so much of it's funds from government grants or if that's unique to the Clinton Foundation?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 06:58:19
October 07 2016 06:58 GMT
#107212
On October 07 2016 15:47 GreenHorizons wrote:... My original point, which seems to have been completely lost by everyone who engaged with their version of it, was that she might not want to bring up disaster relief considering the Haiti baggage.
...

That point presupposes that there is Haiti baggage with some validity in the first place, does it not?
Shingi11
Profile Joined May 2016
290 Posts
October 07 2016 07:47 GMT
#107213
On October 07 2016 15:32 Kickstart wrote:
Are there people here who don't think climate change is a thing and that we contribute to it with our emissions? Most reasonable people I've seen don't even argue those points, they just argue what, if any, policy decisions should be made. Denying these things at this point is just ignoring what the consensus of experts in the field has been for years.

Show nested quote +

In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 90 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years.

They said the rate of increase in global warming due to these gases is very likely to be unprecedented within the past 10,000 years or more. The panel's full Summary for Policymakers report is online at http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf.

Source


I think most people know climate change is real. I think the real split comes in actually paying to fix climate change. I remember reading a servery a while back where they asked people if they believed in climate and wanted to fix it and an overwhelming majority said yes. After that the next question was if it cost you 50$ more a check to start fix it and that is where people where like f*** no that is someone else problem, i dont want to pay for it.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23298 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 08:07:46
October 07 2016 08:07 GMT
#107214
On October 07 2016 15:58 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 15:47 GreenHorizons wrote:... My original point, which seems to have been completely lost by everyone who engaged with their version of it, was that she might not want to bring up disaster relief considering the Haiti baggage.
...

That point presupposes that there is Haiti baggage with some validity in the first place, does it not?


Valid enough to negatively impact her in a key demo in a swing state. I mean it's not that what happened is really in dispute (regarding the examples I gave) it's just a matter of interpretation, similar to Trump's tax thing (in that my accusation isn't that she broke the law, merely looks bad enough to hurt).

I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Organizers for Hillary in Florida are talking about it.

The Clinton campaign is growing increasingly nervous that a lack of enthusiasm among Florida’s black community could cost them the state. Against this backdrop, skepticism toward the Democratic presidential nominee within Florida’s Haitian-American community threatens to exacerbate that problem.

Among Haitians, Clinton has at least two obstacles to overcome: there is deep skepticism about the work the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation has done on the island after a devastating earthquake there in 2010, according to interviews with community leaders. Compounding the problem for Clinton, the Obama administration last month suddenly lifted a six-year pause on deportations to Haiti it had implemented in the wake of the 2010 earthquake.

“We’re smack dab 30 days from the election and you’re saying deportations can begin?” said Francesca Menes, an organizer with the Florida Immigrant Coalition, who is rallying for Clinton but finding it hard to persuade people to vote.

The bigger fear is that people will instead stay home, activists and leaders of the Haitian-American community say. While vocal, the population of Haitians in Florida isn’t overwhelming. The Census bureau puts the number at slightly under half a million, and only about half of those have the citizenship required to vote. More than half of those who are citizens are under 18, meaning that Trump and Clinton are fighting over a voting pool that could be as low as 100,000 people. Haitian attitudes, though, can influence perceptions among other Caribbean-Americans. There are around 1.5 million non-Cuban Caribbean-Americans in Florida. (Cuban-Americans are far more likely to vote Republican than other Caribbean-Americans.)


Source

But if that's not enough, there's always Bill destroying their rice production as part of a trade deal to make a few extra bucks for farmers in Arkansas. He apologized, but apologies don't fill bellies.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4338 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 08:33:09
October 07 2016 08:31 GMT
#107215
On October 07 2016 07:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:

I haven't heard anyone claim 'man-made' climate change is causing more and bigger hurricanes

I have but not for a few years.

On October 07 2016 10:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Christians praying for the oil and gas industry is so out there that satirists would be accused of being lazy if they'd make it up. What is happening to evangelical America

Todd Hoffman and family pray for god to bring them gold on the "Gold Rush" TV show.
Pretty bizarre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
October 07 2016 10:36 GMT
#107216
On October 07 2016 10:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Christians praying for the oil and gas industry is so out there that satirists would be accused of being lazy if they'd make it up. What is happening to evangelical America


Uh, basically, in the media and political sphere we've redefined the term "evangelical" to mean crazy white uneducated people, so yeah.

There are, of course, lots of sane evangelicals, lots of black evangelicals, lots of educated evangelicals, etc. But the term has been so muddied that its political use and its use in the religious field (where it come from) are by now, if not divorced, certainly separated on bad terms with a lot of facebook sniping.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 10:48:32
October 07 2016 10:48 GMT
#107217
On October 07 2016 19:36 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2016 10:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Christians praying for the oil and gas industry is so out there that satirists would be accused of being lazy if they'd make it up. What is happening to evangelical America


Uh, basically, in the media and political sphere we've redefined the term "evangelical" to mean crazy white uneducated people, so yeah.

There are, of course, lots of sane evangelicals, lots of black evangelicals, lots of educated evangelicals, etc. But the term has been so muddied that its political use and its use in the religious field (where it come from) are by now, if not divorced, certainly separated on bad terms with a lot of facebook sniping.

Evangelicals in either sense annoy everyone who isn't themselves evangelical (or who don't share the same beliefs!). But yes, when anyone refers to the evangelical right, they are talking about the nutters on the far right. Though, I've noticed something of a trend of people I consider evangelical posing as libertarians, except they aren't 'liberal' on any social issues. Or maybe its just the area I'm in~
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 12:18:37
October 07 2016 12:17 GMT
#107218
Libertarians aren't really "liberal" relative to social issues in the first place; though "hands off" government lines up with some socially liberal policies, namely drug policy and church/state separation, it definitely doesn't line up with others, such as abortion access, welfare programs, and housing regulation/oversight.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 07 2016 12:25 GMT
#107219


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-07 12:29:48
October 07 2016 12:28 GMT
#107220
Indeed, I think the people I know are probably just unique cases! Voted Rand Paul and profess to be libertarian (before they considered themselves just republicans) but in reality they are and were part of the evangelical right. I dunno, was just making some casual observation that being viewed as part of that demographic seems to be more unfavorable these days.
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