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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:02 Gorsameth wrote: was (very briefly) discussed earlier. He has to have been bribed/pressured into it with something big. If I had to guess, governor of texas or AG in a trump administration (considering no way in heck christie gets it with bridgegate) | ||
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Introvert
United States4748 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:07 ticklishmusic wrote: If I had to guess, governor of texas or AG in a trump administration (considering no way in heck christie gets it with bridgegate) It's about 2020 and beyond, not some state office. He was already SG for Texas. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
70% of arrested rioters have out of state IDs. Can we just agree this is just an excuse to loot and riot? | ||
KwarK
United States42653 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:07 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Privilege is anything that moves away from meritocracy. Affirmative action and african americans entering college over Asian americans that scored hundreds higher in SATs are both examples of privilege. Do you think the SAT scores are perfect representations of a meritocracy? Because for affirmative action to be moving away from a meritocracy, rather than a correction for an issue with the meritocracy, we would need the default to be a meritocracy. If the number 0 was the expected outcome from a meritocracy but there was an external factor that modified the score of one group to -5 what you are doing is claiming that the -5 is actually the meritocratic outcome and that a +4 modifier for that group (bringing them back to -1) is undermining the meritocracy. Hopefully that explanation made sense. | ||
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KwarK
United States42653 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: So the cop who shot the black teen in Charlotte was black. Hi, this is your daily reminder that black people don't have a superpower that prevents them from learning any racism while growing up and living in a society with entrenched racism. It'd actually be really weird if they could do that. But, despite claims to the contrary by GG and xDaunt, black people are actually human. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:07 ticklishmusic wrote: If I had to guess, governor of texas or AG in a trump administration (considering no way in heck christie gets it with bridgegate) Could also be the RNC's threats to make it hard for anyone who broke their pledge to run again. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: So the cop who shot the black teen in Charlotte was black. 70% of arrested rioters have out of state IDs. Can we just agree this is just an excuse to loot and riot? I rather suspect that Soros is buying them plane tickets to wreak havoc; meanwhile, using this convenient distraction, he keeps pushing forward his globalist agenda in the shadows. Investigation is ongoing. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://lavieagricole.ca/media/image_article/sherlock.jpg) | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21667 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: So the cop who shot the black teen in Charlotte was black. 70% of arrested rioters have out of state IDs. Can we just agree this is just an excuse to loot and riot? There is no systematic problem with US police forced. /s | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 24 2016 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote: See, you're taking each post without keeping the context of the conversation. You refusing to admit you're influenced by a society that teaches white supremacy (even if to a much lesser degree today) doesn't immunize you to that influence. What I find amusing about this, is that I have had an easier time coming to grips with the reality that I sometimes act out of an internalized belief in white supremacy than you are. No, I'm staying very strictly within the context of the conversation in my attempt to give you a roadmap to argue how I am a racist. So let's take your latest post and focus on the bolded part above. First, I'll note that this is something new that you're adding to the conversation. Now, let's let's presume that it is true that both 1) we're in a society that teaches white supremacy, and 2) people, including me, act upon that white supremacy regardless of whether we're intending to overtly act upon a belief of white supremacism or not. This means that the subjective component of your previous definition of racism is effectively eliminated. So yes, under this far more expansive definition of racism, one could argue that I am a racist. The problem with this, however, is that we're right back to my original admonition of "if everyone is a racist, than no one is." Once you start imputing beliefs to people based upon your understanding of how society "teaches" people, you're going to run into problems with your definitions and objective criteria for what is racist. The definition becomes patently over-expansive. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13925 Posts
Racism inherently effects your objectiveity so telling people that you're going to have trouble with it with racism involved isn't saying anything at all. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23221 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:32 xDaunt wrote: No, I'm staying very strictly within the context of the conversation in my attempt to give you a roadmap to argue how I am a racist. So let's take your latest post and focus on the bolded part above. First, I'll note that this is something new that you're adding to the conversation. Now, let's let's presume that it is true that both 1) we're in a society that teaches white supremacy, and 2) people, including me, act upon that white supremacy regardless of whether we're intending to overtly act upon a belief of white supremacism or not. This means that the subjective component of your previous definition of racism is effectively eliminated. So yes, under this far more expansive definition of racism, one could argue that I am a racist. The problem with this, however, is that we're right back to my original admonition of "if everyone is a racist, than no one is." Once you start imputing beliefs to people based upon your understanding of how society "teaches" people, you're going to run into problems with your definitions and objective criteria for what is racist. The definition becomes patently over-expansive. No, it really doesn't though. Also everyone being racist doesn't make no one racist. That's just silly. If everyone was a member of the KKK it wouldn't make the KKK not racist, it just means everyone is racist. | ||
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oBlade
United States5583 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: So the cop who shot the black teen in Charlotte was black. 70% of arrested rioters have out of state IDs. Can we just agree this is just an excuse to loot and riot? The police shoot many people of many races, it's something that police do, and it can't all be because of the officer's personal racist character flaws or we're not going to understand what's going on. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: So the cop who shot the black teen in Charlotte was black. 70% of arrested rioters have out of state IDs. Can we just agree this is just an excuse to loot and riot? I can't agree that it's entirely that; I can agree that a lot of the looters and rioters are people who just came looking for trouble and to take advantage of the situation, as is common in such circumstances; and that that is a substantial part of the immediate problem. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:25 Gorsameth wrote: There is no systematic problem with US police forced. /s Theyve got a tough job.Doesn't take away from the fact the black community needs to take realise many of it's problems come from within.Last month was Chicagos most violent in twenty years.And it wasn't the cops bringing the pain.78 homicides.More murders in Chicago than NYC and LA combined.Again it ain't the cops pushing those numbers so high... | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Theyve got a tough job.Doesn't take away from the fact the black community needs to take realise many of it's problems come from within.Last month was Chicagos most violent in twenty years.And it wasn't the cops bringing the pain.78 homicides.More murders in Chicago than NYC and LA combined.Again it ain't the cops pushing those numbers so high... I'm pretty sure they ARE aware of it; and they are working on that too. Problems get worked on simultaneously. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:18 KwarK wrote: Do you think the SAT scores are perfect representations of a meritocracy? Because for affirmative action to be moving away from a meritocracy, rather than a correction for an issue with the meritocracy, we would need the default to be a meritocracy. If the number 0 was the expected outcome from a meritocracy but there was an external factor that modified the score of one group to -5 what you are doing is claiming that the -5 is actually the meritocratic outcome and that a +4 modifier for that group (bringing them back to -1) is undermining the meritocracy. Hopefully that explanation made sense. Yes, a university entrance exam is the perfect example of meritocracy.People who have scored hundreds higher in SATs will be better engineers, scientists, doctors than the mediocre scorers.I don't see whats so controversial.External factors are irrelevant, race gender and sexual identity is irrelevant name is irrelevant all that should matter is score/result. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:43 Sermokala wrote: How is that an argument that helps you though? Its like saying the term culture is over-expansive of the collective social accomplishments of one group. Ofc it is beacuse it is beacuse its hard to explain basic things without expanding terms to mean many different things. Society is vastly over-expansive term used to describe the shared enviorment that humans congregate togeather in. Racism inherently effects your objectiveity so telling people that you're going to have trouble with it with racism involved isn't saying anything at all. Because if we accept the premise that society teaches people to be white supremacists (or anti-black or whatever), then everyone in that society will have been taught to be a white supremacist (or anti-black or whatever) and hold those beliefs, consciously or not (and I add the consciously or not because that's what's being argued about me). So all that's left to differentiate the racists from the non-racists under this expansive definition of racism is mere virtue signalling. The people who recognize that society has taught them racist things and acknowledge that they sometimes act on what society has taught them are not racists, whereas the denier (ie yours truly) are still racists. Like I said earlier, this is an absurd dichotomy that further illustrates the absurdity of the over-expansive definition of racism. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On September 24 2016 09:00 zlefin wrote: I'm pretty sure they ARE aware of it; and they are working on that too. Problems get worked on simultaneously. How are they working on it and what has been achieved? Last time i checked black poverty rates had risen under Obama.I can't see how globalization and mass immigration helps the black communities already doing it tough? Fill me in. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 24 2016 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote: No, it really doesn't though. Also everyone being racist doesn't make no one racist. That's just silly. If everyone was a member of the KKK it wouldn't make the KKK not racist, it just means everyone is racist. No, I would still argue that if everyone in a given society was a member of the KKK then everyone in that society would be racist. Why? Because I'm in favor of using a more reasonable definition of racism. You're the one arguing that racists beliefs should be imputed to people through "societal teaching." Not me. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4764 Posts
On September 24 2016 09:05 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 24 2016 08:18 KwarK wrote: Do you think the SAT scores are perfect representations of a meritocracy? Because for affirmative action to be moving away from a meritocracy, rather than a correction for an issue with the meritocracy, we would need the default to be a meritocracy. If the number 0 was the expected outcome from a meritocracy but there was an external factor that modified the score of one group to -5 what you are doing is claiming that the -5 is actually the meritocratic outcome and that a +4 modifier for that group (bringing them back to -1) is undermining the meritocracy. Hopefully that explanation made sense. Yes, a university entrance exam is the perfect example of meritocracy.People who have scored hundreds higher in SATs will be better engineers, scientists, doctors than the mediocre scorers.I don't see whats so controversial.External factors are irrelevant, race gender and sexual identity is irrelevant name is irrelevant all that should matter is score/result. I don't agree. Pushing for a prestation oriented only community will backfire hugely. Who's to say the guy with the middle of the pack SATs will invent some kind of new technology that will let humans prosper for another 200000 years? Most people with good SAT scores are run of the mill parrots that just know how to remember shit. They have no outside of the box thinking capabilities. Most don't even learn that in higher education. | ||
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