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On July 28 2016 06:20 xDaunt wrote:The Freddie Gray prosecutions are officially over. All of the charges against the remaining officers have been dropped. I found this quote from the Baltimore Sun to be amusing: Show nested quote +In clearing Nero, Goodson and Rice, [Judge] Williams had repeatedly said that prosecutors presented little or no evidence to support their broader theory in the case — that the officers acted unreasonably, and willfully disregarded their training and general orders, when they decided not to secure Gray in a seat belt in the back of a police transport van, and that the decision directly led to his death. Someone fucked up badly -- either by horrifically screwing up the prosecution or by bringing charges that never should have been brought in the first place.
I think it is telling that every officer requested a bench trial(no jury) after the first mistrial due to the hung jury. That judge did not seem included to convict any of them on any of the charges. He also issued a gag order once the trials started, which was odd. I would need to look at the cases a lot deeper, she said the police department was not cooperative in providing evidence. Which we were not aware of due to the gag order.
I'm not willing to write this one off as inept prosecution alone.
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On July 28 2016 05:43 Leporello wrote:
Hearing about Trump's plea to have a crypto-fascist state commit espionage against our government, I'm reminded of that letter the GOP wrote to Iran in the midst of an important multinational negotiation.
It seems treason is just a word, nowadays.
No no no you're just falling prey to media propaganda, silly liberal. Trump is not asking them to commit espionage, he's only asking them to publicly release their previously-committed espionage. The distinction is very significant and completely absolves Trump of any fault.
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United States44440 Posts
On July 28 2016 06:20 xDaunt wrote:The Freddie Gray prosecutions are officially over. All of the charges against the remaining officers have been dropped. I found this quote from the Baltimore Sun to be amusing: Show nested quote +In clearing Nero, Goodson and Rice, [Judge] Williams had repeatedly said that prosecutors presented little or no evidence to support their broader theory in the case — that the officers acted unreasonably, and willfully disregarded their training and general orders, when they decided not to secure Gray in a seat belt in the back of a police transport van, and that the decision directly led to his death. Someone fucked up badly -- either by horrifically screwing up the prosecution or by bringing charges that never should have been brought in the first place.
Freddie Gray was handcuffed and unable to secure himself safely in the van because they restrained him from being able to, right? I'm no lawyer but surely this is as simple asking the police department if their policy is to put a seatbelt on prisoners for the prisoner when the prisoner is unable to do so due to the restraints the police put on him. If yes, the cops failed to follow procedure and in doing so caused his death. If no, the department's procedures were woefully inadequate (because if you take away someone's ability to save themselves from a danger you then create then you are responsible for saving them) and caused his death.
Like this is a simple enough case. The police definitely killed him. The question is whether these officers did it or whether it was shitty policy that did it. Or am I missing something here?
Additionally I would not start a vehicle with someone in it not wearing a seatbelt. It's just not safe and as a responsible driver I wouldn't do it, even if I was on the clock and my department hadn't specified that I always had to make sure seatbelts were used. It's not about the department procedures, it's about basic morality and responsibility. I find it very hard to believe that the officers in question did not deliberately fail to secure him in order to knock him around a bit with some plausible deniability. Seatbelts aren't some new thing, people know what happens when you don't wear them. I doubt they meant to kill him but I find it extremely hard to believe that they thought what they were doing was fine because people, even idiots, just aren't that stupid. Surely they had to have meant to hurt him. Difficult to prove because you can't prove what's in a man's heart but this isn't one of those things that just happens.
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On July 28 2016 06:29 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 06:20 xDaunt wrote:The Freddie Gray prosecutions are officially over. All of the charges against the remaining officers have been dropped. I found this quote from the Baltimore Sun to be amusing: In clearing Nero, Goodson and Rice, [Judge] Williams had repeatedly said that prosecutors presented little or no evidence to support their broader theory in the case — that the officers acted unreasonably, and willfully disregarded their training and general orders, when they decided not to secure Gray in a seat belt in the back of a police transport van, and that the decision directly led to his death. Someone fucked up badly -- either by horrifically screwing up the prosecution or by bringing charges that never should have been brought in the first place. Freddie Gray was handcuffed and unable to secure himself safely in the van because they restrained him from being able to, right? I'm no lawyer but surely this is as simple asking the police department if their policy is to put a seatbelt on prisoners for the prisoner when the prisoner is unable to do so due to the restraints the police put on him. If yes, the cops failed to follow procedure and in doing so caused his death. If no, the department's procedures were woefully inadequate (because if you take away someone's ability to save themselves from a danger you then create then you are responsible for saving them) and caused his death. Like this is a simple enough case. The police definitely killed him. The question is whether these officers did it or whether it was shitty policy that did it. Or am I missing something here?
The problem is that failure to train, which is definitely the most operational theory of culpability given the facts available, is a component of a 1983 action, not a criminal prosecution. It'll be interesting to see what shams out from the civil suits.
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If I'm reading this right; it was the same judge in all the cases? If so, does anyone know about that judge's reputation?
re: farv -> I think the city already settled, didn't they?
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Hmm, I hadn't seen that, would make sense though.
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Oh, they've finally put up American flags on the main stage.
The first speaker fear-mongering a Trump presidency, De Blasio just slandering and regurgitating old Trump talking points.
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On July 28 2016 06:31 zlefin wrote:
If I'm reading this right; it was the same judge in all the cases? If so, does anyone know about that judge's reputation?
re: farv -> I think the city already settled, didn't they?
I hate CNN, but here is a story by them about him.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/us/judge-barry-williams-baltimore-trials/
No red flags. But the fact that he denied the requires to compel other officers to testify in each others cases seems odd and that ruling was over turned. But nothing crazy. If find it difficult to agree with this rulings, but maybe the evidence was terrible.
But if all those officers keep their jobs after costing the city 6.4 million and letting a prisoner die on due to their failure, it will be....exactly like the rest of America.
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This is a really interesting article
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but absolutely nobody beats Trump supporters when it comes to the topic of being offended by someone else being offended :o
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United States44440 Posts
It's great until Trump gets triggered by red Starbucks cups.
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People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd.
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On July 28 2016 06:41 xDaunt wrote:People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd.
so are you an anarchist or do you actually believe that trump's presidency will be good for the U.S. during trump's presidency?
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United States44440 Posts
On July 28 2016 06:41 xDaunt wrote:People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd.
Oh please. One "Happy Holidays!" and Trump breaks down in tears. "Press 1 for English" and he demands to know where he is because he thought this was America. Sure there are tumblrinas on the left but they're not on the Hillary left, they're on the "HOW COULD BERNIE DO THIS TO ME? I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING SPECIAL!" left. Of the two candidates Trump is the one who gets apoplectic with rage whenever someone says something he doesn't like. You don't see Hillary suing journalists or trying to start one man boycotts for companies who show insufficient loyalty to her brand of America worship.
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Even if Trump loses I take solace in the fact that both for Democrats and Republicans, the younger groups polled increasingly identify with more free speech and less PC than the older groups
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On July 28 2016 06:43 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 06:41 xDaunt wrote:People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd. so are you an anarchist or do you actually believe that trump's presidency will be good for the U.S. during trump's presidency?
He is a Republican who has accepted that Trump will be shit but letting the Democrats win is not an option.
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On July 28 2016 06:44 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 06:43 travis wrote:On July 28 2016 06:41 xDaunt wrote:People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd. so are you an anarchist or do you actually believe that trump's presidency will be good for the U.S. during trump's presidency? He is a Republican who has accepted that Trump will be shit but letting the Democrats win is not an option.
The old: well the people that he is going to harm won’t be me and I really hate the other side, so this is fine.
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On July 28 2016 06:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Even if Trump loses I take solace in the fact that both for Democrats and Republicans, the younger groups polled increasingly identify with more free speech and less PC than the older groups
That has nothing to do with free speech. Respecting other people isn’t an infraction of your right to expression. What people complaint about is wanting to say whatever they want and for there not to be consequences, which is just another form of "being offended". Or as Louis C.K. put it “If you tell an offensive joke and no one laughs, you are just offensive.”
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On July 28 2016 06:43 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 06:41 xDaunt wrote:People shouldn't underestimate the role that these sentiments play in Trump's level of support. One of the sweetest parts of a Trump victory will be licking the tears off of the faces of the snooty PC crowd. so are you an anarchist or do you actually believe that trump's presidency will be good for the U.S. during trump's presidency?
I have selected the giant douche over the turd sandwich. God knows that Trump isn't my ideal candidate, but there are enough silver linings to his election such that I greatly prefer him to Hillary.
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EPT
