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On July 08 2016 20:34 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:08 m4ini wrote:On July 08 2016 19:59 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The guy clearly knows what he's doing under fire but it doesn't take special forces training to know how to do what he did in that video.
When I say advanced tactics I mean the cadence of their firing, where they were firing from, how they coordinated their fire. All the stuff they did in their initial attack is stuff militaries around the world train their soldiers to do when they're on the attacking end of an ambush. It's standard I guess you could say but it's also advanced. From reports the start of the attack was very precise. I can only go off the video zeo linked, and i personally don't see military tactics. And i don't think i've ever seen an american soldier fight like this either, and i've seen american soldiers in actual fire fights. There's a big difference between videogame tactics, and reality. What he did looks more like counterstrike or "the Division" than anything else. He was applying a lot of pressure. Basically everyone on English and Serbian language sites with military training is saying this guy knew what he was doing. You don't have to do something textbook, its just one of the safest ways to take corners and he knew where the cop was.
Again. You know there's someone behind a pillar. You want to kill him, while being alive yourself. What are you going to do? I don't know how UK soldiers or Serbian soldiers get trained, but i've seen, again, american soldiers fight in real firefights. This does not look like US military training. This looks more like the stuff gun nuts upload on youtube. edit: and again, most important part: what you describe as "slicing the pie" is simply incorrect. And every "military expert" who says that was totally "slicing the pie", has never actually learned how to CQC. I didn't say the shooter was ex-military, I'd say he received enough training to know how to fight against armed opposition. It might be some kind of paramilitary camp training, but police officers everywhere severely lack training against these kinds of attacks. Because I guess nobody expects coordinated attacks with semi-automatic weapons against cops for the sole purpose of killing them. - Suppressive fire to keep the cop back - Aggressive cut in with proper footwork and stance and grip - Slicing the pie the whole time keeping the proper distance using the cops position as a pivot point (not moving in) This is just not something regular police are trained to deal with and its no wonder he got outmaneuvered
Should be interesting to see if this leads to police wanting to restrict firearm access, particularly since the one weapon id'd so far is some sort of ar-15 variant.
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On July 08 2016 20:27 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:08 m4ini wrote:I can only go off the video zeo linked, and i personally don't see military tactics. And i don't think i've ever seen an american soldier fight like this either, and i've seen american soldiers in actual fire fights. There's a big difference between videogame tactics, and reality. What he did looks more like counterstrike or "the Division" than anything else.
I'm talking about before that video. People who were there said they started the attack by firing some shots and then waited for a moment for everyone to start running around (which would distract the police) before firing again, and a veteran who was there said it sounded to him like they were coordinating their shots and that the cadence of their fire was "strategic." They only hit 1 person who wasn't a cop and they didn't expend hundreds of bullets to hit their targets. The Dallas police chief said that 2 of them were firing from above from not long range but not short range either. They were good shots. I don't think CS or Rainbow Six Vegas or whatever could have taught them how to do everything they did. Even if that one guy at close range did act in the moment more with his balls than with the formal training of soldiers you've seen. What he did worked anyway. It's not that easy to pull an ambush like this off by teaching yourself how to do it no matter what information you find on the internet or wherever or it would happen more often. Not just in America but many, many places.
I only know how stuff started by reading up on it. The videos i saw (the black guy behind a tree filming a couple of police cars, zeos video) don't show "strategic cadence". They show pretty normal AR rate of fire. Now i didn't scavenge for all the videos possible, maybe there's more to see in others: but "strategic cadence" in fact is slow firing.
And obviously they coordinated the attack. They positioned themselves along the rally in elevated positions (meaning i'd argue this was planned before the two dead black people yesterday). But if you think that they somehow "herded" the police into positions, i'd argue that you're wrong. The first thing you mentioned, the "shooting, then briefly stopping to let panic take over" can have many reasons. Maybe they wanted the crowd to disperse, rather than confuse the cops. Seems more likely to me, considering these are most likely retaliations for black people shot by cops. Although that's obviously just guesswork from my side.
The "not expending 100s of bullets".. Don't know what to make of that, they're using semi-automatics on medium range. They know they won't hit stuff by spraying bullets everywhere, and they most likely would hit bystanders too. Something they, if these are retaliations, want to prevent at any cost.
So.. all in all? I said multiple times, yes. They do seem to have a basic grasp of at least paramilitary concepts. The problem is, that in america, that means jack shit. Every gun nut has a grasp of those. Every "militia" does.
Oh.. And lets be honest. An ambush like this is not hard to pull off if you know what your goal is. There's no advanced tactics to this. The only thing that's needed is the will to kill. Ask yourself. You got a rifle, and three friends, all of you guys are mentally retarded and decide to kill cops and make a statement. How you gonna do it?
- Slicing the pie the whole time keeping the proper distance using the cops position as a pivot point (not moving in)
This is just not something regular police are trained to deal with and its no wonder he got outmaneuvered
In the video you linked, there's no "slicing the pie". There's a person running around a pillar, not pivoting, shooting a cop in the back.
You're right with one thing though: the officer did a costly mistake there. I'm not criticising that, or saying i would've done it differently (coming to think of it, even with CQC training, i would've most likely done the same) - but rewatching this without the pressure of having a gun pointed at me, armchairing it: he was completely overwhelmed, possibly shocked. I don't think any cop would've expected that something like this could and/or would happen. Not in this scale.
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when people romanticize guns and competent use of guns so much, are we really surprised that some of those competent users of guns do stupid shit with their competent self-training?
after all, gotta be good enough at bearing arms to take down a tyrannical state...
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On July 08 2016 20:45 kapibara-san wrote:
when people romanticize guns and competence use of guns so much, are we really surprised that some of those competent users of guns do stupid shit with their competent self-training?
As someone said earlier. That belief some people have, that guns are there to protect them from a tyrannic government?
This is what that looks like.
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On July 08 2016 20:41 m4ini wrote:
You're right with one thing though: the officer did a costly mistake there. I'm not criticising that, or saying i would've done it differently - but rewatching this without the pressure of having a gun pointed at me, armchairing it: he was completely overwhelmed, possibly shocked. I don't think any cop would've expected that something like this could and/or would happen. Not in this scale.
Mate, look at the arc he takes after going around the piller and the distance he keeps from the cop. People without any training under fire from multiple positions do not engage armed opposition that quickly in that manner, I don't care how brave you are.
In any case we will find out during the next few hours exactly who these guys were and what background they have.
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On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 08 2016 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 08 2016 10:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, and the thing that pisses me off even more than the bullshit "correction" of "All" Lives Matter instead of Black Lives Matter is when they say "Blue Lives Matter" as a response to these needless executions of blacks by cops. Are you fucking kidding me -.-' I don't get why you can't sympathize with the message from both. Good cops die in the line of duty serving their country when they shouldn't. I agree, but it's never claimed as both... it always ends up being a response to Black Lives Matter, especially since the people who say All/ Blue Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter completely miss the point of Black Lives Matter... that no one is saying that other lives *don't* matter. By saying Black, they're not saying Not Blue/ Not Other. It's just that the Blue/ Other lives aren't being persecuted against in the same way. I like this analogy: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8ORn34M.jpg) I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception. Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America.
ok, I asked this to get your perspective because while I think there are race problems in the U.S., I feel like a huge problem of it is fear based on a narrative
my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant.
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On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 08 2016 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I don't get why you can't sympathize with the message from both. Good cops die in the line of duty serving their country when they shouldn't. I agree, but it's never claimed as both... it always ends up being a response to Black Lives Matter, especially since the people who say All/ Blue Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter completely miss the point of Black Lives Matter... that no one is saying that other lives *don't* matter. By saying Black, they're not saying Not Blue/ Not Other. It's just that the Blue/ Other lives aren't being persecuted against in the same way. I like this analogy: I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception. Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant.
you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location?
people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is
ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area
doesnt mean its not a problem
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On July 08 2016 20:51 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:41 m4ini wrote:
You're right with one thing though: the officer did a costly mistake there. I'm not criticising that, or saying i would've done it differently - but rewatching this without the pressure of having a gun pointed at me, armchairing it: he was completely overwhelmed, possibly shocked. I don't think any cop would've expected that something like this could and/or would happen. Not in this scale. Mate, look at the arc he takes after going around the piller and the distance he keeps from the cop. People without any training under fire from multiple positions do not engage armed opposition that quickly in that manner, I don't care how brave you are. In any case we will find out during the next few hours exactly who these guys were and what background they have.
After rewatching it multiple times, i might actually be wrong. I'm not convinced, but i start to wonder if he mistepped on purpose. Which btw, again, wouldn't be military training, but would mean he knew exactly what he was doing there.
Where i do disagree: he neither "took an arc", nor did he pivot. What you describe as "arc" is simply necessity because he's using a long barreled weapon. Sidenote: i never said i'm brave. "Brave" people are the first ones to die in actual combat. That's also something you'd learn in military.
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On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 08 2016 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:[quote] I agree, but it's never claimed as both... it always ends up being a response to Black Lives Matter, especially since the people who say All/ Blue Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter completely miss the point of Black Lives Matter... that no one is saying that other lives *don't* matter. By saying Black, they're not saying Not Blue/ Not Other. It's just that the Blue/ Other lives aren't being persecuted against in the same way. I like this analogy: I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception. Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem
The majority of her time is not with me. And, I didn't say it isn't a problem. And, we have lived in and around baltimore the entire time.
Anyways I didn't say there isn't a problem. I said that there is a fear based narrative that is being told, that divides people by race even further (creates an us vs them mentality on all sides).
There is definitely race based issues that should be talked about and fixed. But some of these problems are posed as race problems when the bigger picture is about something else (police power and punishment). Everyone knows about the 2 videos of black guys being shot, but what about the white guy who was shot while laying down. No one knows about that. Now why is that.
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The Dallas reports I'm finding say that 11 cops were shot, 5 of which died. Is there any report as to whether or not there were any non-cop casualties?
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On July 08 2016 20:58 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception.
Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem Anyways I didn't say there isn't a problem. I said that there is a fear based narrative that is being told, that divides people by race even further (creates an us vs them mentality on all sides).
yea, pretty basic observation... telling anecdotes really isn't a constructive way to help with that problem... considering people already have defense mechanisms for anecdotes...
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i've been thinking... the more dangerous it sounds to be a cop, the more reasonable people will avoid that job and the more that job's gonna be filled with passionate retards with power fantasies
o well
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On July 08 2016 21:00 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:58 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks.
10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem Anyways I didn't say there isn't a problem. I said that there is a fear based narrative that is being told, that divides people by race even further (creates an us vs them mentality on all sides). yea, pretty basic observation... telling anecdotes really isn't a constructive way to help with that problem... considering people already have defense mechanisms for anecdotes...
You might say it's a basic observation but if you read social media the vast majority of people don't see it. So I think there is something to be said for pointing it out.
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On July 08 2016 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The Dallas reports I'm finding say that 11 cops were shot, 5 of which died. Is there any report as to whether or not there were any non-cop casualties?
no civilian casualties confirmed, witnesses saw plain clothed victims but unclear whether they were police or not. Two civilians have been reported to have been shot 1 confirmed hit in the leg shielding children, though likely a ricochet imo.
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On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 08 2016 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:[quote] I agree, but it's never claimed as both... it always ends up being a response to Black Lives Matter, especially since the people who say All/ Blue Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter completely miss the point of Black Lives Matter... that no one is saying that other lives *don't* matter. By saying Black, they're not saying Not Blue/ Not Other. It's just that the Blue/ Other lives aren't being persecuted against in the same way. I like this analogy: I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception. Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem
I assume your "hometown" is San Fran or some suburbs of it? LOL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Oscar_Grant
Ignorant people.
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On July 08 2016 21:01 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 21:00 kapibara-san wrote:On July 08 2016 20:58 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
10,000 times this^
It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem Anyways I didn't say there isn't a problem. I said that there is a fear based narrative that is being told, that divides people by race even further (creates an us vs them mentality on all sides). yea, pretty basic observation... telling anecdotes really isn't a constructive way to help with that problem... considering people already have defense mechanisms for anecdotes... You might say it's a basic observation but if you read social media the vast majority of people don't see it. So I think there is something to be said for pointing it out.
this is one of those instances of fallacious thinking where people think people simply being aware of a problem and shouting that awareness into the void does anything
find someone with that misconception and personally change them... i really doubt you're changing anyone's minds here
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On July 08 2016 21:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The Dallas reports I'm finding say that 11 cops were shot, 5 of which died. Is there any report as to whether or not there were any non-cop casualties? no civilian casualties confirmed, witnesses saw plain clothed victims but unclear whether they were police or not. Two civilians have been reported to have been shot 1 confirmed hit in the leg shielding children, though likely a ricochet imo.
Okay, thank you 
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On July 08 2016 19:00 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 18:37 GreenHorizons wrote:I think the police may be intentionally trying to manipulate the narrative at this point. We'll see if it fits the narrative they know everyone is going with at the moment or if the truth ends up running counter to that. On July 08 2016 18:33 Godwrath wrote:On July 08 2016 16:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 16:35 CorsairHero wrote:camo guys give an interview + Show Spoiler + Still up on the PD's twitter (and elsewhere) as a suspect. Like wtf? Wasn't he carrying an ar-15 to a manifestation ? The reason they are not dropping it could be one you just aren't thinking about, but could perfectly be. I'm not sure what your saying but it's his right to carry the gun there and the NRA says that's how he's supposed to protect himself in situations like that. There's video of him giving his gun over post haste on his brothers advice to avoid getting murdered by the police, he was on the street helping people when the shots started. The police have released him and said tough cookies and good luck with the death threats. They can't pretend like they don't understand why people were protesting in the first place. What ? On a manifestation ? Are you all that messed up on USA ? For all i know the police could think that he intended to be on the shooting but backtracked last minute. But yeah i will stop posting because i certainly don't understand the US culture enough, its alien to me that you want to carry a gun to a demonstration which could end up on violence.
Maybe he brought a gun because it could end up in violence.
To protect himself when things get crazy.
I don't understand anything about it either.
The fact that you can walk around the streets with something that is almost like an ak47,its beyond me.
Get rid of the guns,it would de-escalate everything.
But even Obama cant do it in his last year of presidency, and I think Clinton will not touch the subject at all.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 08 2016 21:01 kapibara-san wrote:
i've been thinking... the more dangerous it sounds to be a cop, the more reasonable people will avoid that job and the more that job's gonna be filled with passionate retards with power fantasies
o well
Some PDs already reject applicants for being overqualified or scoring too highly on their exams.
Flight risk is the reason given (moving on to other jobs), but personally I don't think it applies given it's a relatively dangerous job so applicants are generally quite serious about it as a career or a career-building step.
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On July 08 2016 21:03 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 20:56 kapibara-san wrote:On July 08 2016 20:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:51 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:40 travis wrote:On July 08 2016 12:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 08 2016 12:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 08 2016 12:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I think part of the problem has to do with the very phrase 'Black Lives Matter' being a pretty shitty slogan to rally behind. From the get-go before you even know what the message is, it's already charged with racial tension of 'us vs them'. That and the fact that it's so disorganized and tends to do really shitty things that hinder the good intentions behind it's conception.
Something needs to be done but the way BLM often goes about it is self-detrimental to it's own ends. I think that the racial tension and the "us vs. them" mentality existed long before the recent movement was coined as Black Lives Matter. Based on the history of violence and oppression aimed towards blacks in this country, it's pretty much *always* been "us vs. them", and it's been 100% caused by the oppressors and privileged people, not the blacks. 10,000 times this^ It's always been us vs them police have never not been like this. This is actually the best they've ever behaved, even though people act like this started when the videos started showing up. do you think it's way worse for black males than females? Than *white* females? I think there's plenty of prejudice and oppression to go around unfortunately, and I know that women are constantly afraid of being alone in certain areas/ getting raped/ kidnapped, which I'd imagine is a comparable fear to black men constantly being afraid of cops/ assumed by others to be dangerous or unfriendly. Certainly one difference, however, is that women might feel safer around cops, while black men might feel less worried about being messed with? All I can say is that I'm happy that I'm a white male. no im talking about discrimination black males face in comparison to discrimination black females face liek for example, i get the suspicion it's much much more dangerous in regards to police to be a black male than a black female GH is black right? that's why i asked him Women are less likely to be killed but are often rape victims. Take the tendency to not believe rape victims, the tendency to believe cops, and the low value of black women in society, and you have a perfect victim. Black women have it hard, it doesn't really matter which is worse to me, so I would just default to it being them since they are so constantly treated like trash, scratch that, trash has well regulated and protected space in America. my wife is black and while she does have race related fear of certain things (like cops), I can say that there has been 0 actual race related problems since I have been with her. Which is odd for a problem that is supposed to be so *incredibly* rampant. you don't think being with a white guy all the time naturally reduces problems for her? also geographical location? people who generalize their personal experience to the entire U.S. always seem to fail to realize how wide and diverse the country really is ofc the shit that happened in minnesota and louisiana today wouldn't ever happen in my hometown in the south bay, bay area doesnt mean its not a problem I assume your "hometown" is San Fran or some suburbs of it? LOL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Oscar_GrantIgnorant people.
you're the one flaunting your ignorance for not even bothering to look up the geography of the bay area and assuming the east bay and the south bay are equatable
that's like looking at a shooting in compton and assuming beverly hills is full of gun violence
"LOL. Ignorant people."
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EPT
