EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4132
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10135 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On June 27 2016 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote: Just wow... When people find you less honest and trustworthy than Donald Trump, you need to reevaluate your decisions. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gImiq6r.jpg) Source Unfortunately the email decision can't be reevaluated. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On June 26 2016 12:24 Danglars wrote: George Will has always had a screw loose. He rationalizes compromises to big government and has weird views on Stand your ground in florida (Zimmerman news cycle). But he really has only made overtures to conservatism, in many ways he hasn't changed from the past. He attacked Reagan and tried to rid the party of his supporters in '76 and '80. A Rockefeller Republican who's usually lost and clueless describes him to a tee. In this post you said you disagree with various things Will has said. Doesn't really establish that he has a screw loose. Unless "rationalizing" compromise requires a loose screw lol. | ||
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silynxer
Germany439 Posts
On June 27 2016 02:01 IgnE wrote: You know it's possible to just view some of the tape-recorded reactions as simple ignorance, but it's also possible to view them as the victory of the hegemonic narrative over ideological resistance. Some person gets swamped with media people pummeling him/her with "facts" and resistance wavers and breaks. And this isn't necessarily directed at you, but let's be real about this Build the Wall promise, and others like it. While you may think such promises are ridiculous or stupid, they are not impossible. It is not impossible to build a wall. It only seems impossible to those so thoroughly enmeshed/committed in/to the "facticity" of such things as "political facts." Facts about "support for the wall," and the "impossibility of getting things through Congress." Those aren't facts except within an ideological framework that has captured those who propagate such facts. What does it even mean to talk about a "political fact"? It resembles something more of an always-changing description about a psychosocial process within the electorate. And if we have learned anything this election cycle it is that the "experts" have lost control of the "facticity" of their own facts: Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders were never supposed to have this much support. Brexit was never supposed to happen. Those things were impossible. It is not impossible to build a wall along the Mexican border, it is impossible to build a wall that will combat illegal immigration effectively (because if I remember correctly, the vast amount of illegal immigrants does not cross the border illegally). Now, the symbol might be as important (or more) as the the effectivity but to say people who support the wall know that it cannot be effective doesn't sound true. Similarily, I think a big part of the pro leave voters really did believe that there were no considerable downsides. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15727 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22048 Posts
On June 27 2016 05:41 Mohdoo wrote: So...When can we expect a general election debate? I am curious as fuck how those are going to look. not for a while longer, conventions need to happen first July 18-21 for Republicans July 25–28 for Democrats. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14075 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 27 2016 02:01 IgnE wrote: And if we have learned anything this election cycle it is that the "experts" have lost control of the "facticity" of their own facts: Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders were never supposed to have this much support. Brexit was never supposed to happen. Those things were impossible. Because we're still in the phase where the populists can make outrageous claims and haven't yet actually faced responsibility for the fallout of their decisions. It was just talk until now. We'll see how the glorious Brexit goes and how well the champions of the people do and then we'll see how strong the support is going to be. The populist factions are in a good position right now because they haven't governed yet. If they had to they'd need to stop being populists. It's the same thing every time. | ||
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22048 Posts
On June 27 2016 06:01 Nyxisto wrote: Because we're still in the phase where the populists can make outrageous claims and haven't yet actually faced responsibility for the fallout of their decisions. It was just talk until now. We'll see how the glorious Brexit goes and how well the champions of the people do and then we'll see how strong the support is going to be. The populist factions are in a good position right now because they haven't governed yet. If they had to they'd need to stop being populists. It's the same thing every time. Pretty much yeah. Trump and Bernie being big, the Brexit happening. It is not because 'experts' have lost control. Its because there are a whole lot of dumb people who will believe everything they are told and don't bother to consider the feasibility of what is being proposed. We have had enough of experts -Brexit campaign Well this is what you get as a result. Good luck with it but don't complain when it turns out experts happened to be right and your now fucked. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 27 2016 06:17 Gorsameth wrote: Pretty much yeah. Trump and Bernie being big, the Brexit happening. It is not because 'experts' have lost control. Its because there are a whole lot of dumb people who will believe everything they are told and don't bother to consider the feasibility of what is being proposed. Well this is what you get as a result. Good luck with it but don't complain when it turns out experts happened to be right and your now fucked. Its still an indictment of the way the country is run though, Dumb people have always existed and always will. The only way populist rhetoric gains traction is when the country is run poorly enough for them to feel disavowed and disenfranchised. So it is a wakeup call either way. | ||
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
While there may be a trend of anti-elitism rooted in a rejection of the facticity of facts as though they were the weapons of superiors and nothing more, as has already been brought up here, I think its a mistake to overlook access as the predominant factor. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15727 Posts
In other good news for Clinton, Sanders voters are already coming around to supporting her. For weeks, Clinton supporters have groused about the disloyalty of Bernie Sanders’ supporters. And it is true that, in the last Post-ABC poll, Clinton only won 71 percent of Sanders voters. But despite the acrimony of the Democratic primary, 81 percent of Sanders backers now support Clinton against Trump. Only 8 percent of Sanders voters now support Trump, compared with 10 percent of all Republicans who support Clinton. (Clinton die-hards should think twice before complaining about Sanders backers’ supposed foot-dragging. At this point in 2008, 22 percent of Clinton primary supporters said they would vote for John McCain in the fall, and 16 percent did so.) Source | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
It's why I am so critical of YouTube videos from unknown sources or internet celeberities. These populist movements and conspericy gain traction because people have to spend so much time discrediting them. | ||
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pmh
1399 Posts
One of the bigger offenders is google,filtering results when you search for Hilary Clinton for example. As showed a bit earlier in this thread by another poster. A conspiracy that actually turned out to be true. No wonder people are looking for alternative sources. And now there is a source for everyone! The democrats when they want to know about Clinton they can use google! Makes sure you wont see the bad things. And the anti Clinton people when they want to know about Clinton they can go to trumps twitter! Makes sure you wont find anything good. Isnt it just wonderfull,everyone can live in his or her own reality. Most of the people here do already anyway. | ||
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farvacola
United States18845 Posts
In any case, education reform works far better than censorship imo  | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On June 27 2016 07:55 TheTenthDoc wrote: Independent of any artificial censorship, Google is actually a perfect example of a system that is designed to lead to information feedback loops and independent reality bubbles. Their whole business model is feeding you what they think you want to click on as efficiently as possible. That's why everyone gets different Google results (unless you do some footwork to anonymize yourself completely). Which is still ultimately driven by what individuals actually click/search for. You don't get some Google/Facebook/Twitter shaped reality bubble until you've spent a long enough time avoiding anything that discredits your personal biases. | ||
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