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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 01:46:01
May 28 2016 01:45 GMT
#77901
aye, he is factually correct. It doesn't look like a terribly sound attack ad; but then again most attack ads are stupid.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 01:46:37
May 28 2016 01:46 GMT
#77902
On May 28 2016 10:43 SK.Testie wrote:
I'm not against paternity leave, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that it's not an inconvenience to pay someone for not working. He's factually correct.


Only if you have a very short term view of how employees and in general your community is invested in.

SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
May 28 2016 01:51 GMT
#77903
To the community and country it's great, which is why it should be part of any company that can afford it. But to the business itself, it's definitely a direct inconvenience in the short term.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6319 Posts
May 28 2016 01:54 GMT
#77904
The only interesting thing about that tweet was the phrase "workplace pregnancy" which I would expect to only apply to a few industries.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 28 2016 02:03 GMT
#77905
In what world is that wrong? Is anyone trying to argue pregnancies improve productivity?
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 02:09:50
May 28 2016 02:08 GMT
#77906
On May 28 2016 10:51 SK.Testie wrote:
To the community and country it's great, which is why it should be part of any company that can afford it. But to the business itself, it's definitely a direct inconvenience in the short term.


There are lots of things that are inconveniences to businesses in the short term. Its called the cost of doing business. Making a big deal out of this one is pretty narrowminded.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
May 28 2016 02:19 GMT
#77907
On May 28 2016 11:08 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 10:51 SK.Testie wrote:
To the community and country it's great, which is why it should be part of any company that can afford it. But to the business itself, it's definitely a direct inconvenience in the short term.


There are lots of things that are inconveniences to businesses in the short term. Its called the cost of doing business. Making a big deal out of this one is pretty narrowminded.

who made a big deal out of it? all I saw was a short clip saying it was an inconvenience, and a few posts in an onlin forum; I haven't seen any big deals made.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24142 Posts
May 28 2016 02:26 GMT
#77908
On May 28 2016 11:19 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 11:08 Rebs wrote:
On May 28 2016 10:51 SK.Testie wrote:
To the community and country it's great, which is why it should be part of any company that can afford it. But to the business itself, it's definitely a direct inconvenience in the short term.


There are lots of things that are inconveniences to businesses in the short term. Its called the cost of doing business. Making a big deal out of this one is pretty narrowminded.

who made a big deal out of it? all I saw was a short clip saying it was an inconvenience, and a few posts in an onlin forum; I haven't seen any big deals made.


Well I would say spending money to put it together and tweeting it from the candidates account is trying to make it a big deal, but seems like just a tone-deaf ad to me.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
May 28 2016 02:59 GMT
#77909
On May 28 2016 05:30 Naracs_Duc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 04:13 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
On May 28 2016 04:04 SolaR- wrote:
On May 28 2016 04:01 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
On May 28 2016 03:48 SolaR- wrote:
On May 28 2016 03:44 Plansix wrote:
On May 28 2016 03:42 SolaR- wrote:
On May 28 2016 03:26 Plansix wrote:
By that argument, all politicians are corrupt and so are business people. And Judges. And anyone in any position of power for a period of time.


Most likely, yes. Power is a breeding ground for corruption.

Then, by that argument, we can't hold it against anyone who participates in the system. Or all of our discussions are about relative corruption.


To some degree true. Relative corruption is important here.

Some people on here have flat out said that hillary is not corrupt and laugh at even the hint of possibility.

I am merely demonstrating that is absurd, and some people need to be a little bit more honest about Hillary instead of just jumping to her defense.


I will say it. She is not corrupt at all*. When she got paid for Wall Street speeches and Corporate board speeches, it was because she wanted money and doesn't hate the people she was speaking to. If you look at her actual policy history, there is nothing to suggest she is some Occupy Wall Street burn it all down politician. Center-left politicians don't want to destroy the financial system. The Clinton2 administration, much like the Obama and Clinton1 administration, will not destroy Wall Street. She was never corrupted by Wall Street and turned away from wanting to burn it all down because she never wanted to burn it all down! She is perfectly happy to continue the Democratic party tradition of keeping the financial system working, but regulated**.

*If you disagree, then you need to show where Money was provided to Clinton, and then in return she changed her position based on that money and against her previously held beliefs.

** Contrast the Wall Street boom days where investment bankers had models and bottles on Saturdays during the Bush2 administration to the relative poverty during the Obama era. Dodd-Frank did real damage.


I wish i had that faith in humanity but i don't.


I blame Bernie. He is running on an Occupy Wall Street platform of waging war on the 1% so Hillary had to pretend she wasn't a center-left liberal. HRC has always been okay with financiers and the continuing existence of Wall Street. So is Obama. So was Clinton1. But because Bernie is in the race she has to dance around acting like she is going to stick it to Wall Street when we all know she is just going to keep up the current Obama regulations.


Fuck Obama's regulations with its job growth, high approval rating, health care reforms, finance reforms, reduced war involvement, tax reduction, market growth, and increased social reforms. Only Bernie, Trump, and the GOP are against that.


I remain firmly convinced that, just as Bush Jr. saw a massive unilateral over-commitment of our military and resources abroad in response to 9/11 (quite a shame: his administration, raised the amount of international development aid [esp. in regards to HIV/AIDS] the US gave during his term, the Obama administration has since seen several [unnecessary] cuts), Obama has similarly overcompensated in the other direction, in terms of being overly, hrmmm, passive? withdrawn? Difficult for me to put it in good terms right now. I understand why he did and his own mentality regarding the role of the US in the modern world (and in putting much more stock in the use of drones to fight terrorism), I simply don't agree with it and believe in a much more activist role in the US, especially over the next one/two decades where it's critical for setting the tone of the next century.

We likely needed to leave some US forces based in Iraq to forestall the development of ISIS, and we're facing issues in Afghanistan because of the commitment to a firm deadline for withdrawal, and my opinion on Syria (and Libya) is quite clear. This doesn't diminish the positive accomplishments he's achieved re. US-Cuban relations, the Iran deal (in all likelihood), the recent agreements with Vietnam, and overall repairing US image and brand abroad after a fairly disastrous second Bush term (let's be honest though, it was mostly Iraq). However, with really the exception of the Iran deal, the rapproachement between the US and Cuba/Vietnam were bound to have occurred recently, due to shifting geopolitics and attitudes since the Cold War, and Vietnam is extremely anxious about recent Chinese moves/buildup in the South China Seas (did you know Vietnam is the 5th largest arms purchaser in the world? I didn't, but I probably should've guessed).
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 03:24:44
May 28 2016 03:21 GMT
#77910
On May 28 2016 11:19 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 11:08 Rebs wrote:
On May 28 2016 10:51 SK.Testie wrote:
To the community and country it's great, which is why it should be part of any company that can afford it. But to the business itself, it's definitely a direct inconvenience in the short term.


There are lots of things that are inconveniences to businesses in the short term. Its called the cost of doing business. Making a big deal out of this one is pretty narrowminded.

who made a big deal out of it? all I saw was a short clip saying it was an inconvenience, and a few posts in an onlin forum; I haven't seen any big deals made.


UHhhh the fact that its the focus of speech rhetoric and campaign ads ?

But let me excuse myself for using the wrong wording since it rubbed you hard... "making any kind of deal out of it is pretty narrowminded"... happy ?
OkMong
Profile Joined June 2013
76 Posts
May 28 2016 03:44 GMT
#77911
Trump winning the general elections would be a Biblical-level event
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 04:35:41
May 28 2016 04:34 GMT
#77912
as in, possibly on the same scale as meteors comming down to kill people who behaved badly?
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not really religious. Was that the story behind sodom and gomorrah?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
May 28 2016 06:46 GMT
#77913
On May 28 2016 13:34 Toadesstern wrote:
as in, possibly on the same scale as meteors comming down to kill people who behaved badly?
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not really religious. Was that the story behind sodom and gomorrah?

Nope.
sorry for dem one liners
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
May 28 2016 06:52 GMT
#77914
On May 18 2016 17:44 Adreme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 15:39 NukeD wrote:
What are the chances of Hillary going to jail? And how deserving of jail is she in your eyes?

As an outsider, from the stuff I read imo she should be locked for high treason, so I was wondering what the average US citizens view on this is. I also don't think she will infact end up in jail because of her political ties, however.


Uhhh I am actually curious what you read if you get high treason out of even the worst interpretation of whatever she did. I assume this is about the email thing which what she did was not even against the rules let alone the intentionally leaking of classified documents that you are basically implying happened which would be needed for treason.

Its not political connections its just that no crime was committed except for maybe a crime of poor judgement (though considering her email server seems to have held up better then the government one I would even cast doubt on that) and even then I just think it seems like a very overblown story. Basically you got baited by people who want to cast an image on someone (like how they admitted they set up a Benghazi commission to tank her numbers) and are letting the people with an agenda be the people who inform you.

I mostly came to my conclusion from Trey Gowdy videos interogating her about the email situation, where she quitte obviously lied about lots of stuff. Thers other vids that show her as person of very low moral and political integrity.




sorry for dem one liners
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
May 28 2016 06:53 GMT
#77915
On May 28 2016 12:44 OkMong wrote:
Trump winning the general elections would be a Biblical-level event

Yes, like son of god coming to earth :D
sorry for dem one liners
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
May 28 2016 06:57 GMT
#77916
On May 28 2016 15:52 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 17:44 Adreme wrote:
On May 18 2016 15:39 NukeD wrote:
What are the chances of Hillary going to jail? And how deserving of jail is she in your eyes?

As an outsider, from the stuff I read imo she should be locked for high treason, so I was wondering what the average US citizens view on this is. I also don't think she will infact end up in jail because of her political ties, however.


Uhhh I am actually curious what you read if you get high treason out of even the worst interpretation of whatever she did. I assume this is about the email thing which what she did was not even against the rules let alone the intentionally leaking of classified documents that you are basically implying happened which would be needed for treason.

Its not political connections its just that no crime was committed except for maybe a crime of poor judgement (though considering her email server seems to have held up better then the government one I would even cast doubt on that) and even then I just think it seems like a very overblown story. Basically you got baited by people who want to cast an image on someone (like how they admitted they set up a Benghazi commission to tank her numbers) and are letting the people with an agenda be the people who inform you.

I mostly came to my conclusion from Trey Gowdy videos interogating her about the email situation, where she quitte obviously lied about lots of stuff. Thers other vids that show her as person of very low moral and political integrity.

https://youtu.be/_gAUhgBgnb8

https://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI

Fact checking of Hillary lying for 13 minutes straight
© Current year.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24142 Posts
May 28 2016 07:15 GMT
#77917
On May 28 2016 15:57 CorsairHero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 15:52 NukeD wrote:
On May 18 2016 17:44 Adreme wrote:
On May 18 2016 15:39 NukeD wrote:
What are the chances of Hillary going to jail? And how deserving of jail is she in your eyes?

As an outsider, from the stuff I read imo she should be locked for high treason, so I was wondering what the average US citizens view on this is. I also don't think she will infact end up in jail because of her political ties, however.


Uhhh I am actually curious what you read if you get high treason out of even the worst interpretation of whatever she did. I assume this is about the email thing which what she did was not even against the rules let alone the intentionally leaking of classified documents that you are basically implying happened which would be needed for treason.

Its not political connections its just that no crime was committed except for maybe a crime of poor judgement (though considering her email server seems to have held up better then the government one I would even cast doubt on that) and even then I just think it seems like a very overblown story. Basically you got baited by people who want to cast an image on someone (like how they admitted they set up a Benghazi commission to tank her numbers) and are letting the people with an agenda be the people who inform you.

I mostly came to my conclusion from Trey Gowdy videos interogating her about the email situation, where she quitte obviously lied about lots of stuff. Thers other vids that show her as person of very low moral and political integrity.

https://youtu.be/_gAUhgBgnb8

https://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI

Fact checking of Hillary lying for 13 minutes straight


Yeah, it's not a very good video for Hillary. That's not even the bad one, there's a much worse one out there that's more Trump's style.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
May 28 2016 09:48 GMT
#77918
On May 28 2016 16:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2016 15:57 CorsairHero wrote:
On May 28 2016 15:52 NukeD wrote:
On May 18 2016 17:44 Adreme wrote:
On May 18 2016 15:39 NukeD wrote:
What are the chances of Hillary going to jail? And how deserving of jail is she in your eyes?

As an outsider, from the stuff I read imo she should be locked for high treason, so I was wondering what the average US citizens view on this is. I also don't think she will infact end up in jail because of her political ties, however.


Uhhh I am actually curious what you read if you get high treason out of even the worst interpretation of whatever she did. I assume this is about the email thing which what she did was not even against the rules let alone the intentionally leaking of classified documents that you are basically implying happened which would be needed for treason.

Its not political connections its just that no crime was committed except for maybe a crime of poor judgement (though considering her email server seems to have held up better then the government one I would even cast doubt on that) and even then I just think it seems like a very overblown story. Basically you got baited by people who want to cast an image on someone (like how they admitted they set up a Benghazi commission to tank her numbers) and are letting the people with an agenda be the people who inform you.

I mostly came to my conclusion from Trey Gowdy videos interogating her about the email situation, where she quitte obviously lied about lots of stuff. Thers other vids that show her as person of very low moral and political integrity.

https://youtu.be/_gAUhgBgnb8

https://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI

Fact checking of Hillary lying for 13 minutes straight


Yeah, it's not a very good video for Hillary. That's not even the bad one, there's a much worse one out there that's more Trump's style.

Ye i knew I shouldn't have posted that one. Takes away from the more relevant one which is the Trey Gowdy video.
sorry for dem one liners
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 10:38:31
May 28 2016 10:36 GMT
#77919
I really don't see what the big deal is - everyone at this point knows that in public she will say what the polls say/what strategy she's picking with her advisors, and that will naturally change over time - she's a career politician and that doesn't mean at all she'll be a bad president. On the contrary in my opinion, she will be way more likely to be able to influence policy and play the game than Trump will.

And unlike her counterpart in the GOP, Cruz, she doesn't seem to be evil, her agenda is more or less about the status-quo while keeping power and making her stakeholders (establishment leaders, large donors) satisfied and that's by no means that bad for US or the world, especially if she at least a little bit acts on the ideas she's acquired from Bernie to take over some of his demographics.
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46223 Posts
May 28 2016 10:36 GMT
#77920
On May 28 2016 10:37 SK.Testie wrote:
Hillary's new attack line seems a little more upbeat, entertaining and fun. Doesn't hurt that she's using someone with actual charisma.



He's right though. Paying someone for not working is an inconvenience to business.


Yeah this one-liner comment from Trump even seems like a quote mine too, and isn't nearly as staggering as some of the other things he's said. One could easily say something like "Paid family leave is bad for business... but I hope that businesses care enough about their employees to allow for a respectable amount of time off during pregnancy/ birth/ raising babies, etc." Quote mine: "Paid family leave is bad for business." Meh.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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