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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
May 12 2016 15:28 GMT
#75961
On May 12 2016 23:24 Mohdoo wrote:
Everyone who supported Zimmerman sinking in their chairs right now lol


Can't really blame him for acting like this. I'm sure he's received countless death threats, and if he was at all innocent then that would piss most people off enough to act as obnoxious as he is now.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 12 2016 15:44 GMT
#75962
On May 13 2016 00:28 killa_robot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2016 23:24 Mohdoo wrote:
Everyone who supported Zimmerman sinking in their chairs right now lol


Can't really blame him for acting like this. I'm sure he's received countless death threats, and if he was at all innocent then that would piss most people off enough to act as obnoxious as he is now.

Yes. Even if he was not convicted of a crime, his actions and reckless behavior played a part in someone’s death. The exactly amount of responsibly is open for debate, but the entire conflict could have been avoided. His attempt to profit from selling the gun is repulsive and no amount of death threats changes that. There are plenty of people who receive death threats in this county who are to avoid being a repulsive human.

Finally, I respect that the man has legal fees, but there is a legal process to discharge unsecured debt if he is unable to pay it. Plenty of people go through the process all the time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 12 2016 15:53 GMT
#75963
Looks like Paul Ryan got the memo.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
May 12 2016 16:08 GMT
#75964
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-economic-adviser-tax-plan-sam-clovis-223086

trump trying to outdo bernie
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
May 12 2016 16:22 GMT
#75965
Trump trying to come up with less viable economic plan than Sanders. The new race to the bottom.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 12 2016 16:30 GMT
#75966
My favorite part about the Trump plan is that all criticism is meet with “well we can change that if it’s a problem.”
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-12 16:32:40
May 12 2016 16:32 GMT
#75967
I'm more impressed that Trump dispatched the entire draft class of supposed Republican dream candidates without a coherent economic plan
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-12 16:37:52
May 12 2016 16:36 GMT
#75968
Trump should just run on a Bread and Circuses platform. Hedge fund managers take home $4 million a day in income and the rest of us are fed, entertained, and allowed to remain nominally rights-holding citizens.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
May 12 2016 17:11 GMT
#75969
On May 13 2016 01:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm more impressed that Trump dispatched the entire draft class of supposed Republican dream candidates without a coherent economic plan

Ehhh he ran against a heavily flawed field. Cruz was almost as anti distasteful for the establishment gop as Trump (if he was the one with a massive lead I bet the gop would have backed Trump), Rubio and Kasich were far too milquetoast, Jeb has the wrong last name and seemed to be going through the motions instead of actually wanting to win, Carson was too crazy, Fiorina was actually a pretty terrible ceo and not a very good candidate, Christie went a bridge too far in his handling of dissent in New Jersey. This year was a best case scenario for Trump.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24264 Posts
May 12 2016 17:33 GMT
#75970
On May 13 2016 02:11 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 01:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm more impressed that Trump dispatched the entire draft class of supposed Republican dream candidates without a coherent economic plan

Ehhh he ran against a heavily flawed field. Cruz was almost as anti distasteful for the establishment gop as Trump (if he was the one with a massive lead I bet the gop would have backed Trump), Rubio and Kasich were far too milquetoast, Jeb has the wrong last name and seemed to be going through the motions instead of actually wanting to win, Carson was too crazy, Fiorina was actually a pretty terrible ceo and not a very good candidate, Christie went a bridge too far in his handling of dissent in New Jersey. This year was a best case scenario for Trump.


Funny, before Trump jumped in pretty sure most of the conservatives here were arguing it was the strongest field of candidates in a long time.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
May 12 2016 17:36 GMT
#75971
The GOP has said that all 3 post bush primaries. You have to say that you have great candidates, even if you don't believe it, to get yourself and your base fired up, and the base buys it at least at first. And I hope you weren't calling me one of those conservatives. Assuming that Hillary wins and has 8 years as president with out at least one very strong candidate, the democrats will say the same thing.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
May 12 2016 17:37 GMT
#75972
On May 13 2016 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 02:11 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On May 13 2016 01:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm more impressed that Trump dispatched the entire draft class of supposed Republican dream candidates without a coherent economic plan

Ehhh he ran against a heavily flawed field. Cruz was almost as anti distasteful for the establishment gop as Trump (if he was the one with a massive lead I bet the gop would have backed Trump), Rubio and Kasich were far too milquetoast, Jeb has the wrong last name and seemed to be going through the motions instead of actually wanting to win, Carson was too crazy, Fiorina was actually a pretty terrible ceo and not a very good candidate, Christie went a bridge too far in his handling of dissent in New Jersey. This year was a best case scenario for Trump.


Funny, before Trump jumped in pretty sure most of the conservatives here were arguing it was the strongest field of candidates in a long time.


Off the top of my head the only person I heard people in this thread speak well about before this cycle was Walker, and he bowed out real quick (probably too quick, he would have done better than Kasich probably).
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
May 12 2016 17:41 GMT
#75973
On May 12 2016 18:07 Keniji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2016 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:04 xDaunt wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
It is sort of laughable that someone here thinks that if there weren't an alternative to Hillary, that everyone would just vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were a highly favorable choice for millennials, then they wouldn't even look for an alternative to her. Without her rather numerous shortcomings, Sanders would be a non-issue.


Shortcomings?

At the start of the primaries they tried talking about issues, that lead to 3million more votes and an overwhelming delegate lead. If it wasn't for low voter turn out states and vitriolic attacks Sanders would have no chance at all.

The Democrat voter turnout has not been good at all during this primary. It's down like 20% from 2008. And do you expect the new voters in the primary process to be more likely to be Sanders voters or Hillary voters?


With the big states going to Hilary and the small states going to Bernie it tells me that they are going to Hilary.


Hasn't Sanders won almost all states that had a higher turn-out than 2008? To suggest that a low turnout is good for Sanders is an odd statement.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
May 12 2016 17:53 GMT
#75974
Not sure how he can claim that when hes still down several million in the popular vote
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24264 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-12 18:02:17
May 12 2016 18:00 GMT
#75975
On May 13 2016 02:41 Naracs_Duc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2016 18:07 Keniji wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:04 xDaunt wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
It is sort of laughable that someone here thinks that if there weren't an alternative to Hillary, that everyone would just vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were a highly favorable choice for millennials, then they wouldn't even look for an alternative to her. Without her rather numerous shortcomings, Sanders would be a non-issue.


Shortcomings?

At the start of the primaries they tried talking about issues, that lead to 3million more votes and an overwhelming delegate lead. If it wasn't for low voter turn out states and vitriolic attacks Sanders would have no chance at all.

The Democrat voter turnout has not been good at all during this primary. It's down like 20% from 2008. And do you expect the new voters in the primary process to be more likely to be Sanders voters or Hillary voters?


With the big states going to Hilary and the small states going to Bernie it tells me that they are going to Hilary.


Hasn't Sanders won almost all states that had a higher turn-out than 2008? To suggest that a low turnout is good for Sanders is an odd statement.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/


Lol I love that they show that Hillary hasn't won ANY contests with increases in turnout over 08. What they are saying is "mostly false" is the "lose when turnout is low" part, not the "win when turnout is high" part. Not your fault though, they wrote it to give off the impression you got, even if it's the wrong one.
On May 13 2016 02:53 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Not sure how he can claim that when hes still down several million in the popular vote


Because he's won every state that had more voters vote than in 08
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-12 18:02:59
May 12 2016 18:02 GMT
#75976
On May 13 2016 02:36 Jaaaaasper wrote:
The GOP has said that all 3 post bush primaries. You have to say that you have great candidates, even if you don't believe it, to get yourself and your base fired up, and the base buys it at least at first. And I hope you weren't calling me one of those conservatives. Assuming that Hillary wins and has 8 years as president with out at least one very strong candidate, the democrats will say the same thing.

Beyond the usual puffery of saying that they had a good slate of candidates, I don't recall the GOP really going out on a limb and trumpeting the strength of fields in 2008 and 2012. I felt that 2008 was a very bad year, and I specifically recall referring to the 2012 field as John McCain's sloppy seconds. This particular year was very strong. The reason why it appears weak is because Trump is a generational political talent.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 12 2016 18:03 GMT
#75977
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
May 12 2016 18:07 GMT
#75978
On May 13 2016 03:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 02:41 Naracs_Duc wrote:
On May 12 2016 18:07 Keniji wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:04 xDaunt wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
It is sort of laughable that someone here thinks that if there weren't an alternative to Hillary, that everyone would just vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were a highly favorable choice for millennials, then they wouldn't even look for an alternative to her. Without her rather numerous shortcomings, Sanders would be a non-issue.


Shortcomings?

At the start of the primaries they tried talking about issues, that lead to 3million more votes and an overwhelming delegate lead. If it wasn't for low voter turn out states and vitriolic attacks Sanders would have no chance at all.

The Democrat voter turnout has not been good at all during this primary. It's down like 20% from 2008. And do you expect the new voters in the primary process to be more likely to be Sanders voters or Hillary voters?


With the big states going to Hilary and the small states going to Bernie it tells me that they are going to Hilary.


Hasn't Sanders won almost all states that had a higher turn-out than 2008? To suggest that a low turnout is good for Sanders is an odd statement.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/


Lol I love that they show that Hillary hasn't won ANY contests with increases in turnout over 08. What they are saying is "mostly false" is the "lose when turnout is low" part, not the "win when turnout is high" part. Not your fault though, they wrote it to give off the impression you got, even if it's the wrong one.
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 02:53 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Not sure how he can claim that when hes still down several million in the popular vote


Because he's won every state that had more voters vote than in 08


Bernie won only 5 states with a voter turn out higher than 34%, Hilary won 16.

But if you want to be more selective, Hilary won 6 states that had turnout higher than 50%, while Bernie only won 4.

Hilary wins more when the turn out is high, Bernie wins more when the turnout is low. Bernie won elevent states with less than 34% voter attendance, Hilary won only two.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24264 Posts
May 12 2016 18:22 GMT
#75979
On May 13 2016 03:07 Naracs_Duc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 03:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 13 2016 02:41 Naracs_Duc wrote:
On May 12 2016 18:07 Keniji wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:04 xDaunt wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
It is sort of laughable that someone here thinks that if there weren't an alternative to Hillary, that everyone would just vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were a highly favorable choice for millennials, then they wouldn't even look for an alternative to her. Without her rather numerous shortcomings, Sanders would be a non-issue.


Shortcomings?

At the start of the primaries they tried talking about issues, that lead to 3million more votes and an overwhelming delegate lead. If it wasn't for low voter turn out states and vitriolic attacks Sanders would have no chance at all.

The Democrat voter turnout has not been good at all during this primary. It's down like 20% from 2008. And do you expect the new voters in the primary process to be more likely to be Sanders voters or Hillary voters?


With the big states going to Hilary and the small states going to Bernie it tells me that they are going to Hilary.


Hasn't Sanders won almost all states that had a higher turn-out than 2008? To suggest that a low turnout is good for Sanders is an odd statement.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/


Lol I love that they show that Hillary hasn't won ANY contests with increases in turnout over 08. What they are saying is "mostly false" is the "lose when turnout is low" part, not the "win when turnout is high" part. Not your fault though, they wrote it to give off the impression you got, even if it's the wrong one.
On May 13 2016 02:53 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Not sure how he can claim that when hes still down several million in the popular vote


Because he's won every state that had more voters vote than in 08


Bernie won only 5 states with a voter turn out higher than 34%, Hilary won 16.

But if you want to be more selective, Hilary won 6 states that had turnout higher than 50%, while Bernie only won 4.

Hilary wins more when the turn out is high, Bernie wins more when the turnout is low. Bernie won elevent states with less than 34% voter attendance, Hilary won only two.


Except she lost every race where turnout was up. It's clearly an oversimplification, but it's indisputable that where turnout increased, Bernie won.

The data your using is silly because it's comparing caucus turnout to GE turnout, so it's not reflective of whether that's a high turnout or low turnout for it's particular process.

Hillary won 13 out of 15 of the states with the biggest drop in participation over 08. Bernie won every state with an increase in turnout over 08. Taking that information and saying "we win when turnout is high, we lose when it is low" is a fair statement (albeit an oversimplification).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
May 12 2016 18:27 GMT
#75980
On May 13 2016 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2016 03:07 Naracs_Duc wrote:
On May 13 2016 03:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 13 2016 02:41 Naracs_Duc wrote:
On May 12 2016 18:07 Keniji wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 15:04 xDaunt wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 12 2016 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
It is sort of laughable that someone here thinks that if there weren't an alternative to Hillary, that everyone would just vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were a highly favorable choice for millennials, then they wouldn't even look for an alternative to her. Without her rather numerous shortcomings, Sanders would be a non-issue.


Shortcomings?

At the start of the primaries they tried talking about issues, that lead to 3million more votes and an overwhelming delegate lead. If it wasn't for low voter turn out states and vitriolic attacks Sanders would have no chance at all.

The Democrat voter turnout has not been good at all during this primary. It's down like 20% from 2008. And do you expect the new voters in the primary process to be more likely to be Sanders voters or Hillary voters?


With the big states going to Hilary and the small states going to Bernie it tells me that they are going to Hilary.


Hasn't Sanders won almost all states that had a higher turn-out than 2008? To suggest that a low turnout is good for Sanders is an odd statement.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/


Lol I love that they show that Hillary hasn't won ANY contests with increases in turnout over 08. What they are saying is "mostly false" is the "lose when turnout is low" part, not the "win when turnout is high" part. Not your fault though, they wrote it to give off the impression you got, even if it's the wrong one.
On May 13 2016 02:53 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Not sure how he can claim that when hes still down several million in the popular vote


Because he's won every state that had more voters vote than in 08


Bernie won only 5 states with a voter turn out higher than 34%, Hilary won 16.

But if you want to be more selective, Hilary won 6 states that had turnout higher than 50%, while Bernie only won 4.

Hilary wins more when the turn out is high, Bernie wins more when the turnout is low. Bernie won elevent states with less than 34% voter attendance, Hilary won only two.


Except she lost every race where turnout was up. It's clearly an oversimplification, but it's indisputable that where turnout increased, Bernie won.

The data your using is silly because it's comparing caucus turnout to GE turnout, so it's not reflective of whether that's a high turnout or low turnout for it's particular process.

Hillary won 13 out of 15 of the states with the biggest drop in participation over 08. Bernie won every state with an increase in turnout over 08. Taking that information and saying "we win when turnout is high, we lose when it is low" is a fair statement (albeit an oversimplification).


In the states with slightly better low-voter turn out than 08, Bernie did well
In the states with slightly worse high-voter turn out than 08, Hilary won

What's there to be confused about?
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