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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
But there are definitely wrong ways to go about it and those can be a personal choice but I don't want to be forced to support weird shit or research into it. One thing that makes me really sad though is how Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:09 ticklishmusic wrote: One thing that makes me really sad though is Jehovah's Witnesses yea i agree anyway as i edited into my last post i didnt even read that full article i didnt realize bernie was pouring gubmint money into it i concede everything im just bein dumb | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Lurgee
Australia252 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:11 Lurgee wrote: Why are Bernie's views on natural medicine from 25+ years ago interesting or relevant? I have no idea. People have taken the mental leap that because he thinks they are fine and mental health is a huge part of treatment, that he will be funding “Crystal harmonics therapy” through the ACA. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45387 Posts
On April 13 2016 23:53 ticklishmusic wrote: Lol the moment Kasich gets any real traction with his "I did Ohio real good" schtick someone will just point out he was a MD at Lehman Brothers for 8 years up till it collapsed. Yeah you didn't screw up Ohio but you kind of did help blow up the entire economy. I don't dislike the man in particular, but that's a heck of an albatross around his neck. As much as I prefer Kasich to Cruz and Trump + Show Spoiler + much like how I'd technically prefer getting kicked in the balls to being shot or hit by a train | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45387 Posts
On April 14 2016 00:18 oneofthem wrote: http://time.com/4249034/bernie-sanders-alternative-medicine-cancer/ what a surprise It's a surprise to me! Why hasn't Hillary been hammering these (admittedly older/ outdated) views that Bernie has (had?) on odd medical/ sexual causalities? A link between sex and cancer? Natural medicines? Alternative medicine isn't medicine  On April 14 2016 00:41 oneofthem wrote: bernie's history with these ideas isn't from those stories. it's rather from the psychological branch of the frankfurt school style theory. This point of clarity is useful to me; thank you  On April 14 2016 01:09 ticklishmusic wrote: It's a right to pick what treatment, if any, you want especially for terminal illnesses and there's a fascinating discussion around how much care is too much. But there are definitely wrong ways to go about it and those can be a personal choice but I don't want to be forced to support weird shit or research into it. One thing that makes me really sad though is how Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions. To clarify, you mean your right to pick a treatment *for your own disease*, right? Because if *I* want to pick a silly method to treat *your* disease (whether I'm your relative or your friend or your governor or your senator or your president or a complete stranger), then that might be a problem. | ||
KwarK
United States43758 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45387 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:16 Plansix wrote: I have no idea. People have taken the mental leap that because he thinks they are fine and mental health is a huge part of treatment, that he will be funding “Crystal harmonics therapy” through the ACA. Honestly, that's pretty much the parallel to what religious conservative politicians try to implement... they forget that the United States isn't a theocracy (or they just don't care), and try to force everyone into having their worldview/ abiding by their cultural rules, regardless of what the Constitution says. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45387 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:24 KwarK wrote: Regarding the pseudo-medical industry, the supplements industry really does show how toothless the FDA and other regulating agencies really are. There is little to no limit on what you can claim your product does and the industry buys politicians to keep it that way. If people want them, and they clearly do, then at the very least they should be forced to only make correct claims. The same way that I think mediums should be required to state before they start "this is for entertainment purposes only, I can't actually speak to the dead, I can only pretend to for money". If people still want mediums then they can go right on ahead. Definitely agree. This is one of the articles I show my statistics students when we talk about placebo effect: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/03/gnc-target-wal-mart-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/ It goes into decent depth about how it's all a big scam, how "active ingredients" don't even exist (let alone in any significant quantity) in many supplements, and the fact that these marketed curealls don't even need FDA approval. It's tragic, really. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Honestly, that's pretty much the parallel to what religious conservative politicians try to implement... they forget that the United States isn't a theocracy (or they just don't care), and try to force everyone into having their worldview/ abiding by their cultural rules, regardless of what the Constitution says. Considering the history of medicine as a “hard science” that it ignored the mental state and well being of the patient for most of it, this conflict is nothing new. Of course there are totally fake treatments out there, but sometimes trip to a nice smelling steam bath is as effective as pain relievers. And if they call that aroma steam therapy, who cares since we heat and relaxation does good things to muscles? But of course, these should be accredited, like Kwark says. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
as for relevance, bernie has some offtrack ideas that he pursues with no regard for rigor. | ||
Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: It's a surprise to me! Why hasn't Hillary been hammering these (admittedly older/ outdated) views that Bernie has (had?) on odd medical/ sexual causalities? A link between sex and cancer? Natural medicines? Alternative medicine isn't medicine This point of clarity is useful to me; thank you To clarify, you mean your right to pick a treatment *for your own disease*, right? Because if *I* want to pick a silly method to treat *your* disease (whether I'm your relative or your friend or your governor or your senator or your president or a complete stranger), then that might be a problem. ... Well, to be fair, back when Sanders was studying the whole 'no sex = cancer' thing, Hillary was a republican. And just like Hillary and her past, Sanders has went back and corrected some of his views, so it'd be pointless to point out. I do think alternative medicine has its place - although some stuff takes it way too far - and 'yoga + taking care of yourself + meditation is a good thing' is hardly the view that's gonna destroy Sanders' reputation  | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:24 KwarK wrote: Regarding the pseudo-medical industry, the supplements industry really does show how toothless the FDA and other regulating agencies really are. There is little to no limit on what you can claim your product does and the industry buys politicians to keep it that way. If people want them, and they clearly do, then at the very least they should be forced to only make correct claims. The same way that I think mediums should be required to state before they start "this is for entertainment purposes only, I can't actually speak to the dead, I can only pretend to for money". If people still want mediums then they can go right on ahead. I wonder of those people would still buy their oils and extracts if the claims had to be realistic and say: "does fuck all" "does nothing" "makes your pee a different color" "makes your wallet lighter" | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
This also always has secondary effects, people are treating their kids with the stuff and withhold treatment from them fairly regularly. A few weeks ago some kid in Canada died because his parents thought that they could treat the kid's meningitis with maple syrup. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:51 Nyxisto wrote: Also Chiropractics was mentioned above, that doesn't do anything either and in the worst case has been linked to increased stroke risk. They need to simply ban all the stuff, what's with this nonsensical hippie attitude? Protecting idiotic people from killing themselves is the nanny state? You can't even smoke pot but treating your cancer with chakra therapy is okay? This also always has secondary effects, people are treating their kids with the stuff and withhold treatment from them fairly regularly. A few weeks ago some kid in Canada died because his parents thought that they could treat the kid's meningitis with maple syrup. rofl do you think my position supports the continued criminalization of substances? | ||
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KwarK
United States43758 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:51 Nyxisto wrote: Also Chiropractics was mentioned above, that doesn't do anything either and in the worst case has been linked to increased stroke risk. They need to simply ban all the stuff, what's with this nonsensical hippie attitude? Protecting idiotic people from killing themselves is the nanny state? You can't even smoke pot but treating your cancer with chakra therapy is okay? This also always has secondary effects, people are treating their kids with the stuff and withhold treatment from them fairly regularly. A few weeks ago some kid in Canada died because his parents thought that they could treat the kid's meningitis with maple syrup. Yes but pot has been medically proved to help which means it's actual medicine and is therefore within the regulatory scope. You can only make crazy medical claims about your miracle cure if everyone knows it's a scam except the idiot consumer. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Furthermore, what science says doesn't really mean jack shit in the face of results. My sister is a naturopathic doctor and the results she gets from many of her treatments (particularly acupuncture) really make what science says irrelevant, because results are results. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:58 travis wrote: Good, I am glad he supports alternative medicine. Fuck people who think they know everything, and science doesn't even shut down a lot of what alternative medicine has to offer at the moment. But this is an argument that has been had on this website a thousand times and every time it involves a bunch of people throwing up strawmen and ripping them apart. Furthermore, what science says doesn't really mean jack shit in the face of results. My sister is a naturopathic doctor and the results she gets from many of her treatments (particularly acupuncture) really make what science says irrelevant, because results are results. have you ever heard of the concept of a "control"? | ||
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