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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 12 2016 16:43 ElMeanYo wrote: Did you read? The original poster WAS A MINORITY. It wasn't about your post (idc about some reddit stuff which anyone can make up btw, especially when that post tries to appeal to emotions to persuade the reader), more about the Black people standing on an American flag earlier and the fact that they disrupted his speech | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 12 2016 14:41 LegalLord wrote: I'd take these Hitler/Nazi accusations more seriously if it weren't the oldest stupid smear in the book. It's easier to find an important public figure that has NOT been likened to Hitler for some action or other. did you just come out of a literal cave. look at trump rhetoric support and strategy. thread has gone full retard | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On March 12 2016 16:41 OtherWorld wrote: So what? People are surprised that minorities aren't going to accept Trump's hate speech without violence? If the prevailing stereotype is that Group X is predisposed to violence and then a member of Group X acts violently, that kind of confirms people's stereotypes. Fair? Possibly, not necessarily, and not as a general rule. But that's how it works and why the events as described are going to make Trump more popular. On March 12 2016 16:47 oneofthem wrote: did you just come out of a literal cave. look at trump rhetoric support and strategy. thread has gone full retard Oh please. I've seen this line of reasoning applied dozens of times to dozens of people in many different contexts. To cite Godwin's law would be stating the obvious. Trump is Trump. Stop supporting misguided Hitler analogies - it just makes you look petty and stupid, the same as anyone else who uses the argument when they don't know what the hell they're talking about. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23489 Posts
On March 12 2016 16:43 ElMeanYo wrote: Did you read? The original poster WAS A MINORITY. Oh well if a minority said it... | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
 However, that doesn't mean that his kind of rhetoric isn't drawing in people who are racist. That doesn't mean every single person who supports Trump are racists, and I think a lot of his supporters really just care about trying to improve their own situations and any race relations stuff is something they don't care or think about. A lot of his stuff is very nationalistic and that speaks to people who feel they haven't had a fair shot and they find outlets in the form of immigrants, other countries stealing our jobs and killing us in trade, and those "moochers" who burden the system. Frankly I don't think the majority of his supporters are consciously thinking about race but a fair bit of what he says can incite the unconscious racism that exists in all of us. I also don't buy that he is attracting lots of minority voters, He may win the majority of them in the primaries...but those are those who already are republican and frankly they are a minority within a minority. If you can show me he is converting large numbers of minorities who were democrats then we can be impressed by his diverse voter base. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 12 2016 16:43 ElMeanYo wrote: Did you read? The original poster WAS A MINORITY. The original poster was a reddit poster with a throwaway account who's subscribed to Trump's subreddit. It seems like people are being purposefully dense. No, you shouldn't threaten to attack or attack Trump supporters. Yes, that old lady is doing a Nazi salute. No, we don't know the context or whether it was staged, but the act is quite clear. No, no one's first amendment rights were trampled upon. It's the same poor argument people make on TL when they get warned or banned - the first amendment is irrelevant in this situation. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:11 Slaughter wrote: I don't think Trump is really racist against US minorities, I think he simply couldn't give a shit about them or the nature of society. He just thinks more jobs and fixing the economy = its all good for everyone. He is more anti non US citizens if anything else. US vs the world....except they are all tremendous people that he loves However, that doesn't mean that his kind of rhetoric isn't drawing in people who are racist. That doesn't mean every single person who supports Trump are racists frankly I think a lot of his supporters really just care about trying to improve their own situations and any race relations stuff is something they don't care or think about. A lot of his stuff is very nationalistic and that speaks to people who feel they haven't had a fair shot and they find outlets in the form of immigrants, other countries stealing our jobs and killing us in trade, and those "moochers" who burden the system. Frankly I don't think the majority of his supporters are consciously thinking about race but a fair bit of what he says can incite the unconscious racism that exists in all of us. I also don't buy that he is attracting lots of minority voters, He may win the majority of them in the primaries...but those are those who already are republican and frankly they are a minority within a minority. If you can show me he is converting large numbers of minorities who were democrats then we can be impressed by his diverse voter base. This is well put. Also, what on earth was Hillary thinking with that comment at Nancy Reagan's funeral? The Reagan's were quite awful when AIDS became a national headline. I wonder if any of the GOP candidates are going to double down on the war on drugs, and piss off their libertarian supporters. | ||
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oBlade
United States5771 Posts
On March 12 2016 16:41 OtherWorld wrote: So what? People are surprised that minorities aren't going to accept Trump's hate speech without violence? It's really important for the political system of a free society that candidates at all levels can hold rallies and events without having them disrupted to the point of shut down. There was a great official response to this event (I don't want to say it was an overreaction because part of the reason it turned out so good - no shootings/stabbings right - could be because of that response). Beyond that, speech doesn't excuse violence, especially not violence against third parties. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6319 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:16 oBlade wrote: It's really important for the political system of a free society that candidates at all levels can hold rallies and events without having them disrupted to the point of shut down. There was a great official response to this event (I don't want to say it was an overreaction because part of the reason it turned out so good - no shootings/stabbings right - could be because of that response). Beyond that, speech doesn't excuse violence, especially not violence against third parties. There are groups of people in America that think violence, rioting and looting is the solution to all problems. I don't think Trump should have cancelled his rally, you shouldn't back down to these bullies. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:16 oBlade wrote: It's really important for the political system of a free society that candidates at all levels can hold rallies and events without having them disrupted to the point of shut down. There was a great official response to this event (I don't want to say it was an overreaction because part of the reason it turned out so good - no shootings/stabbings right - could be because of that response). Beyond that, speech doesn't excuse violence, especially not violence against third parties. If you sow hate, it's only natural that you reap hate. Violence through words is not very different from violence through weapons/body, although the 1st amendment apparently considers that words cannot be violent. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6319 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:38 OtherWorld wrote: If you sow hate, it's only natural that you reap hate. Violence through words is not very different from violence through weapons/body, although the 1st amendment apparently considers that words cannot be violent. The only people sowing hate are the media. Of course people whose only source of information are buzzfeed articles and facebook posts can get stuped into believing stupid things about political candidates. edit: And in turn stupid people do stupid things, like rioting and violence. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:41 zeo wrote: The only people sowing hate are the media. Of course people whose only source of information are buzzfeed articles and facebook posts can get stuped into believing stupid things about political candidates. I don't think the mean medias invented things like the Mexico-US wall paid by Mexico, or the "prevent all Muslims from entering the US territory" thing, etc? Politicians sow hate everyday (even Sanders or Clinton), and their supporters sow even more (and much much more in Trump's case). It's the easy solution to accuse the Great Media Evil and be persuaded that your favorite politician is all peace & love. | ||
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Verniy
Canada3360 Posts
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oBlade
United States5771 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:38 OtherWorld wrote: Violence through words is not very different from violence through weapons/body Would you mind elucidating some of the differences you think there are between violence through words and physical violence? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:59 oBlade wrote: Would you mind elucidating some of the differences you think there are between violence through words and physical violence? Well, quite obviously, physical violence physically harms the victim while violence through words will often be psychological or social violence, thus psychologically or socially harming the victim (I'm voluntarily leaving the case of explicitly appealing to physical violence with words here, because it's a specific case). Additionally, in most parts of our Western societies, physical violence is seen as primary and unworthy of a civilized human being, while violence through words is considered as quite bad, but not quite as bad. Apart from that? Both are made with the same intent, which is either to hurt someone (either purely because of personal feelings or because you have an interest in doing it, like scapegoating someone to get people to rally behind you) or to respond to someone exerting violence on you. Both can be equally dangerous/hurtful to the victim, from a meaningless injury to death, with physical violence being more direct and visible while psychological/social violence is more vicious and prone to being denied by other individuals (of course, you can't deny that someone is bleeding heavily and tell him to "man up", while you can deny that someone is being psychologically harassed and tell him to "man up"). Precisely because of that, it is much easier to scapegoat someone with psychological violence rather than with physical violence : every human being can't help but feel bad for someone who's full of hematomas and scars. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6319 Posts
On March 12 2016 17:49 OtherWorld wrote: I don't think the mean medias invented things like the Mexico-US wall paid by Mexico, or the "prevent all Muslims from entering the US territory" thing, etc? Politicians sow hate everyday (even Sanders or Clinton), and their supporters sow even more (and much much more in Trump's case). It's the easy solution to accuse the Great Media Evil and be persuaded that your favorite politician is all peace & love. Why hasn't Bernie Sanders disavowed these violent protesters? How can he preach bringing the country together when his supporters threaten violence against anyone that they don't like? Who's the bigot? Trump got something last night that no amount of money can buy: Powerful imagery. Animals jumping on cars, animals blocking ambulances from treating people, animals disrupting peaceful gatherings. Maybe these things are praised in our TL hugbox but outside people are sick and tired of the culture of hate and intolerance that has plaged the Obama presidency. The cycle of culture and counter culture will continue to go on, students that are now enrolling into collage see stupid shit like masters degrees having their name changed because they are associated with slavery and they fight back. The PC police have become become the power. They are the ones going around telling people how to think and what to feel, while punishing those that don't fall into line. When collage kids start throwing blackface parties it won't be because they are racists, it will be because they want to stick it to the man because it will infuriate him. Same thing with women being disgusted with feminism today. It's in human nature to fight against people telling you what to do and what to think. Trump will get a massive boost in polls after this because the people are fed up. They don't want to become the Soviet Union 2.0. And when Trump win the election in November you (not you personally) can scratch your head all you want but your time has past, as Obama always says 'you will be on the wrong side of history'. The side of violence, suppression and hate. edit: The deterioration of society and the amount of division caused in the last 8 years has been staggering. edit2: Just look at Ted's facebook page https://www.facebook.com/tedcruzpage/ User was warned for this post | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 12 2016 18:32 zeo wrote: Why hasn't Bernie Sanders disavowed these violent protesters? How can he preach bringing the country together when his supporters threaten violence against anyone that they don't like? Who's the bigot? Trump got something last night that no amount of money can buy: Powerful imagery. Animals jumping on cars, animals blocking ambulances from treating people, animals disrupting peaceful gatherings. Maybe these things are praised in our TL hugbox but outside people are sick and tired of the culture of hate and intolerance that has plaged the Obama presidency. The cycle of culture and counter culture will continue to go on, students that are now enrolling into collage see stupid shit like masters degrees having their name changed because they are associated with slavery and they fight back. The PC police have become become the power. They are the ones going around telling people how to think and what to feel, while punishing those that don't fall into line. When collage kids start throwing blackface parties it won't be because they are racists, it will be because they want to stick it to the man because it will infuriate him. Same thing with women being disgusting with feminism today. It's in human nature to fight against people telling you what to do and what to think. Trump will get a massive boost in polls after this because the people are fed up. They don't want to become the Soviet Union 2.0. And when Trump win the election in November you can scratch your head all you want but your time has past, as Obama always says 'you will be on the wrong side of history'. The side of violence, suppression and hate. edit: The deterioration of society and the amount of division caused in the last 8 years has been staggering. I don't get your post at all. I literally acknowledged the fact that every politician and their supporters sow hate too? And I agree that Trump got a great media boost with this, especially from right/far-right medias who are surely very thankful to Trump for giving them great "black people so uncivilized, they only know violence" headlines. I guess that's a first step in the Republican establishment accepting Trump as their candidate. I won't even adress the "PC culture boohoohoo" stuff because I wish people would realize "PC" has always been a thing, just a thing that changed over time. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
Also you talk about this stuff like you are above it all yet you are calling the other side animals? Yea respect goes both ways pal and its that kind of talk that starts this kind of stuff. The whole "PC" movement thing is just about respect. In the past people had less respect and threw around a lot of language that was bad and thoughtless so now people are more aware of it and trying to be better. Same thing with feminism. Do people who ascribe to those things go to far sometimes? Yes and its bad but its the same for any group as they all have their more radical and asshole elements. Every "bad" PC/SJW/Feminist you point out you can show and equal number of people who are polar opposites of those 3 who go too far on the opposite side. Stop playing the victim card...you sound like that peasant from monte python HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6319 Posts
On March 12 2016 18:44 Slaughter wrote: Also you talk about this stuff like you are above it all yet you are calling the other side animals? Yea respect goes both ways pal and its that kind of talk that starts this kind of stuff. I'm calling people that block ambulances from going to help injured people animals. Sue me. At least I will condone the actions of someone flipping your car over because they don't agree with you. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
As a libertarian I feel like I'm in some twisted episode of the Twilight Zone. | ||
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