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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 08 2016 07:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Urban farming not as profitable as rural farming shocker. How is that noteworthy news?
im surprised 370 is a sample and not the whole population
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The White House slammed the rhetoric from Republican presidential candidates on the trail, warning them to be wary that the world is watching this election.
“We’ve on a number of occasions had an opportunity to express our significant concerns with some of the divisive rhetoric that has been uttered on the campaign trail — not just by Mr. Trump but by a variety of Republican candidates for president,” White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters Monday. “Many of those declarative statements are in direct conflict with basic American values, the kinds of values that were critical to the founding of this nation and values that have long been cherished by generations of America.”
Earnest gave no specific examples, but GOP front-runner Donald Trump has called for a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and proposed a temporary ban on all Muslims. Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto earlier Monday suggested Trump’s rhetoric has damaged the relationship between the two nations.
“The leaders of other countries are watching. The populations of other countries are watching,” Earnest said. “And part of a presidential campaign is to demonstrate to the American people, who ultimately will be doing the choosing here, that you have the aptitude to lead the country, and that means being a faithful messenger when it comes to articulating the values of the country.”
Source
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On March 08 2016 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
I guess the question starts with "do you think $ has undue influence in politics" if your answer is "yes" Bernie is the only person to vote for, if your answer is "yes, but..." or "no" then other choices make sense.
My point is that "yes, but..." is what got politics where it is now and we can expect what's happening in the R party to happen to D's very soon.
Could nip it in the bud by just accepting Hillary is a corrupting influence within the Democratic party (removing Obama's restrictions on lobbyists and PAC's donating to the DNC for example) or can play blind like the R's did right up until it bit them in the face.
As for Bernie vs Trump Bernie lives what he says, Trump is, has, and will always be about self-aggrandizement.
I think the real question is
Would you rather we have a public way of showing how money influences politics or do we force lobbyists to do it secretly with the populace under the false impression that money can be stopped in any way shape or form from influencing politics.
If you believe that making pointless changes that doesn't directly address issues and simply forces corrupt people into doing things more secretively is the answer to america's problem, then vote for bernie. If you think that Obama has had a good run and its better to take the wins we have and carry them into longterm changes for the future, then you vote hilary.
If you honestly believe that $ has undue influence on politics and that is your primary reason to vote for someone, then your only candidate is trump who is the only citizen paying his own way into the white house.
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On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot.
Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right?
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On March 08 2016 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
I guess the question starts with "do you think $ has undue influence in politics" if your answer is "yes" Bernie is the only person to vote for
No, Bernie's the person to vote for if you want someone who'll complain a lot about it and then achieve nothing because he won't even get elected, and because he has no serious plan to change anything even if he did get elected. Hillary's the candidate for people who want results, not simply rhetoric.
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On March 08 2016 07:50 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot. Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right?
Well regulated lobbying is part of the political process. We lack "well regulated' part and could do more. But lobbying it something all groups do.
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On March 08 2016 07:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Urban farming not as profitable as rural farming shocker. How is that noteworthy news? American habits are changing moving from supermarkets to local farmers markets and local owned farms urban or not. Yet those that grow can't even afford to do that full time. Then there are taxes and local governments doing the bidding of higher ups to shut down even destroy said projects and operations.
Your entire post was the article quoted. Your tinhat conspiracy theory have no relation to the article posted whatsoever.
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On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt.
I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice?
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On March 08 2016 07:50 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot. Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right?
It is the right of every citizen to be able to talk to and ask help from their congressmen and senators. That some citizens are more listened to than others is irrelevant of that.
The real issue is not lobbyist, its lack of voter participation.
What does lobbying help with? It helps with advertising and GOTV campaigns. If citizens actually voted and actively read up on politics--lobbyists would have ZERO power. Its not maliciousness to pay for TV ads.
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On March 08 2016 07:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt. I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice?
It's possible "worst Christians" is less "worse at living up to their tenets" and instead "most annoying/overbearing." At least that way the sentence makes more sense to me.
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Just read Bloomberg's editorial. Really know nothing about the guy, but I enjoyed the read. Seems down to earth.
I'm glad he's not running though. Third party tickets are synonymous with spoilers unfortunately, and he would just serve to push the Repubs into office. I am really tired of the partisan politics though, definitely agree with him on that.
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On March 08 2016 07:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +The White House slammed the rhetoric from Republican presidential candidates on the trail, warning them to be wary that the world is watching this election.
“We’ve on a number of occasions had an opportunity to express our significant concerns with some of the divisive rhetoric that has been uttered on the campaign trail — not just by Mr. Trump but by a variety of Republican candidates for president,” White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters Monday. “Many of those declarative statements are in direct conflict with basic American values, the kinds of values that were critical to the founding of this nation and values that have long been cherished by generations of America.”
Earnest gave no specific examples, but GOP front-runner Donald Trump has called for a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and proposed a temporary ban on all Muslims. Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto earlier Monday suggested Trump’s rhetoric has damaged the relationship between the two nations.
“The leaders of other countries are watching. The populations of other countries are watching,” Earnest said. “And part of a presidential campaign is to demonstrate to the American people, who ultimately will be doing the choosing here, that you have the aptitude to lead the country, and that means being a faithful messenger when it comes to articulating the values of the country.” Source
it's becoming increasingly clear that josh earnest is basically obama's anger translator. he says things obama wants to say but can't directly say as president. maybe i'm just late to the party.
On March 08 2016 07:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt. I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice?
well, see kim davis, she of kentucky clerkship and anti-gay fame.
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On March 08 2016 07:50 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
I guess the question starts with "do you think $ has undue influence in politics" if your answer is "yes" Bernie is the only person to vote for No, Bernie's the person to vote for if you want someone who'll complain a lot about it and then achieve nothing because he won't even get elected, and because he has no serious plan to change anything even if he did get elected. Hillary's the candidate for people who want results, not simply rhetoric.
Aren't both Hillary's and Bernie's level of success contingent upon the willingness of Republicans/ Congress to work with her/ him? I think they hate Hillary far more than Bernie; they sure hated working with Obama, and Hillary is running as Obama's third term.
Also, what if the results that Hillary obtains aren't what you want, because you disagree with her ideas and vision for the country?
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On March 08 2016 07:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:50 Simberto wrote:On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot. Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right? Well regulated lobbying is part of the political process. We lack "well regulated' part and could do more. But lobbying it something all groups do.
1) Corporate lobbying IS NOT a fundamental right.
2) Regulated lobbying American style is part of the political process only in USA
3) An action being involved in a political process does not make it a right in any case.
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On March 08 2016 07:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt. I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice?
Yes and no. If you are raised Catholic and decided to remain Catholic, its a choice too. Unless your family is dysfunctional and disowns you for not remaining in the Church. "The Converted" as my father refereed to them, are the Cross Fit of Christianity. They are completely invested, it changed their life and they are going to tell you about it. They saw the light and you should to. They are going to tell people about the glory of God. And you are bad for not being as invested as them. For not trying to convert people. For not explaining to the Muslim or Jew they are wrong and you are right.
Edit: Kim Davis is an excellent example of The Converted. I am suspect of anyone who identifies and "Born Again Christian". Anyone who claims their life before wasn't worthless before god makes me question why they are so invested in god.
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On March 08 2016 07:57 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt. I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice? It's possible "worst Christians" is less "worse at living up to their tenets" and instead "most annoying/overbearing." At least that way the sentence makes more sense to me.
Ah, I'd agree with that!
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On March 08 2016 07:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 08 2016 07:16 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 07:08 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 06:52 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Because I have bigger fish to fry and both myself and my fiancée are covered. I just survived the 8 year battle for the ACA and I’m done. We can slowly repair healthcare within that system going forward.And these constant question about why I didn’t vote for your guy is making me a real fan if him. Let me tell you, its huge. The Bernie supporters of facebook constantly posting things about Hilary, attacking her, really productive stuff. Makes me love Bernie more and more. Bernie seems like a great guy, but man do his supporters suck. And head to head polls are garbage. Always have been. Wasn't there recently a conversation on the "I got mine" mentality? Bernie supporters are trying to get through to people that by voting for Hillary they are embracing so many of the things they say they don't like about politics for the sake of a victory that is hopeful at best. Money in politics, lying leaders, inadequate healthcare, less than a living wage, corporate welfare, fracking, O&G, pipelines, Hawkish FP, arming dictators and/or terrorists, and that's just a short list of some of the stuff she has openly admitted to supporting. None of which Hillary supporters will be able to say they didn't vote for. I agree though, things would be more productive if Hillary dropped out and focused on the investigations into her and her foundation. GH, you are a broken record that says nothing new. The only thing you have managed to do in this thread is make me hate Bernie Sanders and his shitbird supporters. lol Must be working then. Rather than point the anger at the broken system and corrupt candidate you're supporting you are on the last leg of defense by pushing that anger toward those who are pointing out that you're anger is misplaced. I bet that is it. That must be it. This system is so broken it has turned me against you. Its not that you’re obnoxious. That could be it. I once asked my father who the worst Christians were(he is Catholic), he said “The converted, ” with absolute conviction, are without doubt. I would have thought that the converted would be better Christians than those simply born into a religion without ever reflecting and consciously deciding to believe and follow the religion. At least the converted are proactive and sincere about their actual choice? Yes and no. If you are raised Catholic and decided to remain Catholic, its a choice too. Unless your family is dysfunctional and disowns you for not remaining in the Church. "The Converted" as my father refereed to them, are the Cross Fit of Christianity. They are completely invested, it changed their life and they are going to tell you about it. They saw the light and you should to. They are going to tell people about the glory of God. And you are bad for not being as invested as them. For not trying to convert people. For not explaining to the Muslim or Jew they are wrong and you are right.
That makes sense, thanks.
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On March 08 2016 07:50 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
I guess the question starts with "do you think $ has undue influence in politics" if your answer is "yes" Bernie is the only person to vote for No, Bernie's the person to vote for if you want someone who'll complain a lot about it and then achieve nothing because he won't even get elected, and because he has no serious plan to change anything even if he did get elected. Hillary's the candidate for people who want results, not simply rhetoric.
I suppose if those results are ones that will be relatively indistinguishable from those of GWB and you want that, that sounds good.
Bernie and his campaign are already doing things no other candidate has done, resigning to politics as usual isn't going to last. The curtain has been pulled back and people see "the wizard". There's no turning back, only fighting the inevitable.
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On March 08 2016 07:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:51 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:50 Simberto wrote:On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot. Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right? Well regulated lobbying is part of the political process. We lack "well regulated' part and could do more. But lobbying it something all groups do. 1) Corporate lobbying IS NOT a fundamental right. 2) Regulated lobbying American style is part of the political process only in USA 3) An action being involved in a political process does not make it a right in any case.
I have never laughed heartier than at bullet nr 2. Lobbying is ALWAYS going to take place in ANY political system. You can either embrace it and regulate it in a way so that it is transparent or you can try and outlaw it in which case it is just going to happen in the shadows. It is not going to go away though.
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On March 08 2016 07:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 07:51 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2016 07:50 Simberto wrote:On March 08 2016 07:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 08 2016 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 08 2016 00:52 Plansix wrote:
I have so many friends from Canada and the EU that can’t understand why the US system is so terrible and people put up with it. Then I have to explain to them that the health insurance lobby has a lot of influence over government and donates heavily. Then they ask why we put up with that too.
By the end it, it degrades down to the fact that we are terrified of government, so we will let anyone else screw us over so long as we don’t vote for them.
Is that when you tell them you're supporting the candidate that's been paid a millions of dollars by that health insurance lobby instead of the one who isn't and is for universal healthcare? Lobbying is kind of a fundamental right and whatnot. Why exactly is bribing officials a fundamental right? Well regulated lobbying is part of the political process. We lack "well regulated' part and could do more. But lobbying it something all groups do. 1) Corporate lobbying IS NOT a fundamental right. 2) Regulated lobbying American style is part of the political process only in USA 3) An action being involved in a political process does not make it a right in any case.
Lobbying is just putting forward your point of view to your representative in government, of course its a right. The problem is systemic though. Lobbying needs to be very tightly controlled because at the moment its just totally out of control and this is worldwide, not only in America. Just look at how much Google spent on lobbying the EU, for example.
The problem is especially deep when you consider that some of the biggest lobby groups are tied to companies that provide a huge amount money, technology and skills for government projects. Its so obvious where the flaw in this kind of thing is, but there's no practical way to regulate it. What is standard practice now would suddenly become illegal and that kind of thing doesn't just happen overnight.
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EPT
