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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3199

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
March 06 2016 22:25 GMT
#63961
Small part of the mess that is the nomination process...

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22308 Posts
March 06 2016 22:31 GMT
#63962
On March 07 2016 07:23 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2016 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 07 2016 07:09 xDaunt wrote:
On March 07 2016 07:04 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 07 2016 06:40 xDaunt wrote:
On March 07 2016 06:36 Toadesstern wrote:
On March 07 2016 06:32 xDaunt wrote:
On March 07 2016 06:26 Sermokala wrote:
On March 07 2016 06:10 Danglars wrote:
I'm absolutely loving how well Cruz has been doing contrasted against how poorly Rubio has been doing. You have the conservative and the non-conservative outsiders soaking up a combined 682 compared to Rubio/Kasich's 163. The party leadership that has led against the will of the people for so long are stuck with two totally unpalatable choices for them. Hell, it's about time.

To be fair There are some pretty good reasons why the leadership has been against the cruz/trump part off the party the last 4 or so years.

Not really. You are doing something seriously wrong when you are disregarding the wishes of a majority of your constituents and actively antagonizing them.

There are certainly opinions that a majority of your constituents can have that deserve being ignored and having constituents be antagonized for. You just don't think that any of them have crossed that line.
Unless you're saying there's a better to do that, as in educating and explaining people why they are wrong on something.

You are missing the key point -- really the only point -- of representative democracy.

Here is the issue. The US is a 2 party system.
Lets generalize and divide the entire range of political opinions in 10 parts.
if the Democratic party is at 3 and the GOP at 7 then maybe the GOP doesnt want people who are at 9.
However since the US is a 2 party system there is no where else for these people to go.

It is perfectly acceptable for a party to not want people of certain conviction. You don't have a right to a party that represents your views.

We aren't talking about the GOP disenfranchising a small
minority of its constituency. We are talking about a large majority of the party.

Edit: And like the others, you are putting the cart before the horse. The party is supposed to reflect the will of it constituency -- not the other way around.

See in a multi party system there are other options for these people to go to.
The schism in the GOP is the direct result of the 2 party system. And no a party has no duty to reflect the will of its constituents. In a normal world those people would vote for another party and cause the offending party to die out.

And maybe a multiparty system is what the US needs (and it may be what Trump gives us). But the larger point is this: the GOP has clearly failed its membership. This is why I objected to Sermokala's point that the GOP may have been right to ignore the "Cruz and Trump" elements of the party. The obvious point is that a party's leadership cannot ignore 70%+ of its membership and expect things to go well.

Your right. thing will not go well for them because of it but I understand why the GOP did it. The pull to the right for the GOP has been very real with the Tea Party. And while this pull has brought regional success, it will not bring national success. That is why the GOP tries to bring the party back closer towards the center.

As for the US changing into a multi party system. I think it would be good for the political scene, force some more cooperation but to much has to change for it to be possible for me to see it happening.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-06 23:34:50
March 06 2016 22:38 GMT
#63963
The Republican's did this to themselves back in 2012 when they decided stop everything the Democrats attempted and claimed they would repel the ACA, shut down PP and any number of things they knew would never happen. They promised their base things they could never deliver. So naturally now their base is pissed and will vote for anyone who isn't part of the establishment. Hence Trump. Cruz is weirder because he has accomplished almost nothing during his time in the senate beyond shut down the government once. But the master plan of do nothing for 4 years got their base very angry and its a form of anger the Republicans can't control.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 06 2016 23:15 GMT
#63964
romney wouldnt be too bad.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:05:02
March 07 2016 00:03 GMT
#63965
Seattle experiences largest 9-month dropoff in jobs recorded since the great recession after bringing in $15 minimum wage.Great work guys...
[image loading]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2016 00:16 GMT
#63966
Fossil fuel millionaires collectively pumped more than $100m into Republican presidential contenders’ efforts last year – in an unprecedented investment by the oil and gas industry in the party’s future.

About one in three dollars donated to Republican hopefuls from mega-rich individuals came from people who owe their fortunes to fossil fuels – and who stand to lose the most in the fight against climate change.

The scale of investment by fossil fuel interests in presidential Super Pacs reached about $107m last year – before any votes were cast in the Republican primary season.

Campaign groups said the funds raised questions about what kind of leverage the fossil fuel industry might enjoy if the Republicans were to take the White House.

Ted Cruz, the Texas senator seen as having the best chance of stopping Donald Trump from clinching the Republican nomination, was among the biggest beneficiaries of fossil fuel support to his Super Pac.

Cruz, who more than any other Republican candidate openly rejects mainstream science on climate change, banked some 57% of the funds to his Super Pac, or about $25m, from fossil fuel interests, according to campaign filings compiled by Greenpeace and reviewed by the Guardian.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:30:24
March 07 2016 00:18 GMT
#63967
Any 9 month period? That sounds awfully, awfully specific. Like the kind of stat that someone would come up with after finding out that it wasn't the greatest of any 6 month period, or of any year. Did you check if they tweaked the time period deliberately to manufacture that statistic? Because you'd think a minimum wage law would have its impact almost immediately, if not even earlier as people see that it will take effect.

I did a little googling and it turned out that the minimum wage law was actually passed in June 2014. So from June 2014 everyone knew what the new rate of pay would be and would have made decisions accordingly due to efficient market theory. If an employer was not prepared to pay someone $15/hr then the time to lay them off would be between June 2014 and April 2015, before the wage hike which the employer knows is definitely coming takes effect. However that graph does not show that. In fact it shows employment is still higher today than it was in June 2014. Weird. There are more employers hiring more people right now than there were before the minimum wage law was passed. Employment has actually gone up over the period from the passing of the minimum wage law to when they stopped their graph.

Furthermore it shows a decrease in employment of approximately 10,000 jobs from approx 405k to 395k. So if we accept your evidence, which I've already discredited pretty thoroughly but let's assume for a second that I haven't and we accept your claim, your argument is that a $15 minimum wage law leads to a 1.2% decrease in employment? Honestly that seems pretty much okay. Like that's about what I'd expect in terms of kids not having to skip college to support their family because the single working parent at McDonalds can pay the electric bill now. So even if we accept that graph, and I don't, I still think it shows that the minimum wage has been a success.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17486 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:26:28
March 07 2016 00:19 GMT
#63968
Sad news. Nancy Reagan is dead at 94. Her husband was a really good president and one of the most charismatic and powerful public speakers ever. She held together the Reagan administration in the last couple of years of her husband's presidency.

This is greatest speech i've ever heard


On March 07 2016 09:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Seattle experiences largest 9-month dropoff in jobs recorded since the great recession after bringing in $15 minimum wage.Great work guys...

wage theft and under the table work is rampant as Ontario has increased its minimum wage to $11.25/hour.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2016 00:22 GMT
#63969
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6102 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:25:54
March 07 2016 00:23 GMT
#63970
There probably simply isn't data after December 2015 which is when the 9 month period that starts with the introduction of the new wage in April ended.

On March 07 2016 09:22 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0pO9VG1J8

When the messages of "comedy" and "news" are identical, it makes the former not very funny and the latter not very insightful.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4217 Posts
March 07 2016 00:23 GMT
#63971
On March 07 2016 09:18 KwarK wrote:
Any 9 month period? That sounds awfully, awfully specific. Like the kind of stat that someone would come up with after finding out that it wasn't the greatest of any 6 month period, or of any year. Did you check if they tweaked the time period deliberately to manufacture that statistic? Because you'd think a minimum wage law would have its impact almost immediately, if not even earlier as people see that it will take effect.

I did a little googling and it turned out that the minimum wage law was actually passed in June 2014. So from June 2014 everyone knew what the new rate of pay would be and would have made decisions accordingly due to efficient market theory. If an employer was not prepared to pay someone $15/hr then the time to lay them off would be between June 2014 and April 2015, before the wage hike which the employer knows is definitely coming takes effect. However that graph does not show that. In fact it shows employment is still higher today than it was in June 2014. Weird.

Furthermore it shows a decrease in employment of approximately 10,000 jobs from approx 405k to 395k. So if we accept your evidence, which I've already discredited pretty thoroughly but let's assume for a second that I haven't and we accept your claim, your argument is that a $15 minimum wage law leads to a 1.2% decrease in employment? Honestly that seems pretty much okay. Like that's about what I'd expect in terms of kids not having to skip college to support their family because the single working parent at McDonalds can pay the electric bill now. So even if we accept that graph, and I don't, I still think it shows that the minimum wage has been a success.

Don't try to confuse people with your numbers. Paying people more money is bad. It means you have less money. And less money is bad.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
March 07 2016 00:27 GMT
#63972
Wait, when they say largest since the great depression they don't mean the actual Great Depression in the 1930s, they mean 2008? Wow. That's some shit. Largest drop we've ever seen in the last 7 years of uninterrupted economic growth. Employment right now is only as high as it was about 18 months ago, we've lost all the growth we've seen in the last 18 months!!!

Those guys at the American Enterprise Institute must shit themselves every winter. "Temperatures haven't been this low all year!!! What could this mean for the American ice cream industry as it struggles to cope in this new perpetual winter? And how is Obama to blame for this? We can only hope that soon the Republicans will take the White House and restore warmth to America, probably sometime around May".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6102 Posts
March 07 2016 00:32 GMT
#63973
The graph and NettleS both said "Great Recession" which is the universal way of referring to 2008-2009, the Great Depression meaning National Defenstration of Stock Brokers Day 1929 onward.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 07 2016 00:37 GMT
#63974
On March 07 2016 09:27 KwarK wrote:
Wait, when they say largest since the great depression they don't mean the actual Great Depression in the 1930s, they mean 2008? Wow. That's some shit. Largest drop we've ever seen in the last 7 years of uninterrupted economic growth. Employment right now is only as high as it was about 18 months ago, we've lost all the growth we've seen in the last 18 months!!!

Those guys at the American Enterprise Institute must shit themselves every winter. "Temperatures haven't been this low all year!!! What could this mean for the American ice cream industry as it struggles to cope in this new perpetual winter? And how is Obama to blame for this? We can only hope that soon the Republicans will take the White House and restore warmth to America, probably sometime around May".


You got that wrong apparently - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession

The rest of your analysis apart from that faux pas is correct though.
On track to MA1950A.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:59:16
March 07 2016 00:41 GMT
#63975
It just honestly didn't occur to me that anyone would be so stupid as to present anything as the "greatest decrease we've experienced in the last 7 years of uninterrupted economic growth". Like do they not understand how market cycles work or do they just assume that none of their readers do?

Jobs could go down 10% and they'd still be higher than they were before the last recession. Instead they went down 1% and they're trying to present this as something bad. It's as stupid as a weatherman standing out on a November day and announcing that it's the coldest day in the last 6 months and therefore global warming is a lie.

The economy has been on an absolute tear since 2009, the equivalent of summer in the above weather analogy, with each new peak being rapidly overtaken by another higher peak. That graph shows jobs today higher than they were back when the minimum wage bill was passed, you simply cannot present information that way and expect people to take it seriously. A sample that consists only of constant economic growth is absurd.

Hell, it's only been 7 years, how many 9 month periods are there even to choose from? (9, if you assume no overlaps, there are 9 periods they could choose from and of those 9 this is apparently the worst)

This is not how you do statistics. This is how you demonstrate to the world that you need help with your statistics. They should be embarrassed that they published that and the people who took it seriously should go to any educational establishment they ever attended and use the fact that they took it seriously as evidence that they didn't get their money's worth.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-07 00:46:46
March 07 2016 00:43 GMT
#63976
"The number of people working today is the lowest we've seen all week. What could this mean for Trump's presidential run, the answer will shock you!".

- AEI

later that day

"Obama has brought about this Sunday but I can assure you that under President Trump there will be a new Monday for America and it'll be great. And Mexico will pay for it!".

- Trump
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
March 07 2016 00:59 GMT
#63977
Debate is starting in Flint

http://www.cnn.com/
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6102 Posts
March 07 2016 01:03 GMT
#63978
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

Am I wrong to think these pages are quite sane?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
zf
Profile Joined April 2011
231 Posts
March 07 2016 01:06 GMT
#63979
On March 07 2016 09:41 KwarK wrote:
This is not how you do statistics. This is how you demonstrate to the world that you need help with your statistics. They should be embarrassed that they published that and the people who took it seriously should go to any educational establishment they ever attended and use the fact that they took it seriously as evidence that they didn't get their money's worth.

The worst part is that they might even be right about the relationship between wages and employment. But a simple line graph isn't the way to establish that correlation. For comparison, Tacoma, WA's unemployment rate follows a similar pattern during that period, even though Tacoma isn't subject to the minimum-wage law.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
March 07 2016 01:11 GMT
#63980
Feeling the Bern so hard right now. kyaa.
Writer
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