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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 06 2016 04:02 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:On March 06 2016 03:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. If we accept for the moment that Trump has made racist and bigot remarks then it must follow that his supporters are aware of these remarks. If they still want to vote for Trump despite him making racist and bigot remarks then they are presumably ok with those statements. If your ok with racist and/or bigot remarks you are (at least somewhat) a racist and a bigot. It really isn't that hard. This post angers me so much. It is filled with so much ignorance and self righteousness. My girlfriend is black, her parents are black and i have plenty of friends who are black who support trump. First off, donald trump is not a racist despite what the media tells you. I can't count the times tha trump is misquoted by the media or when he is taken out of context. He is by no means a racist. Coolman hit the nail on the head stating how liberals need racists and bigots as fuel for their campaign. Sure, the racist supporters are the most vocal or the most covered by the media, but in actuality they represent a small base of his support. Donald trump is getting support from a variety of people who have one thing in common: their discontent with modern politics and the elite political circle. The reason for this discontent varies greatly among many different people. Trump is rough around the edges and may not say everything in the most politcally correct manner. However, i believe he is saying what needs to be said and that he means well. He is not racist and I believe the pc crowd is way too thin skinned. Ignorance and self righteousness are what you embody as a trump supporter. Sorry fam.
Every trump supporter is ignorant and self righteous? That sounds pretty ignorant to me.
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On March 06 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:
Sure, the racist supporters are the most vocal or the most covered by the media, but in actuality they represent a small base of his support. Donald trump is getting support from a variety of people who have one thing in common: their discontent with modern politics and the elite political circle. The reason for this discontent varies greatly among many different people.
Trump is rough around the edges and may not say everything in the most politcally correct manner. However, i believe he is saying what needs to be said and that he means well. He is not racist and I believe the pc crowd is way too thin skinned.
You described the Trump phenomenon exactly. Well done.
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has blocked enforcement of a Louisiana law that could force all but one of the state's abortion clinics to close, a sign that a similar law in Texas also could be in peril.
The justices on Friday are effectively reversing an order by the federal appeals court in New Orleans that allowed Louisiana to begin enforcing its 2014 clinic regulation law even as it is being challenged in the courts.
The law requires doctors who provide abortions to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals.
The legal group representing the clinics says facilities in Baton Rouge and Bossier City already have had to stop providing abortions and a clinic in Shreveport would have to stop providing abortions soon.
Source
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United States22883 Posts
On March 06 2016 03:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 06 2016 03:35 Yoav wrote:
No, he inherited a ton of it, got lucky in some real estate purchases, then made a zillion companies to exploit bankruptcy law when half of them went belly up, then made money on a book selling people on how to be him, THEN became a reality TV star.
I was being generous by calling him a reality TV star because I didn't want to say con-man. Hahahaha, I love populist characterizations of rich people, it becomes hilariously amusing. Out of curiosity, which parts of Yoav's characterization are inaccurate? Perhaps the "getting lucky" part is subjective, but Trump was absolutely born and raised with a silver spoon in his mouth; he's not self-made, and he did declare bankruptcy ?four? different times.
I'd argue that Trump is quite good at real estate, particularly luxury real estate, and he's got a strong-ish brand, largely from his book and TV show. His other ventures haven't had much success and I don't think he's done well reading anything outside of the luxury market. He's made a lot of money at a below-average rate from those, but the lot of money part stands out to most people.
I don't think he understands the economy particularly well - even though he's in real estate, if you asked him to explain mortgage backed securities or what happened in 2008, he'd have issues because that's not the real estate he deals with.
The way he talks about making deals and conducting business is not how most of the world operates, I don't think. Maybe deals between moguls work that way but for most companies the goal is not to outright win. It's to find middle ground so both partners are mutually interested in each other's success. From the way he talks, he's interested in humiliating his partner, which precludes you from getting deals with them in the future. Also, the way he speaks about international business - especially the line about doing business with Japanese companies - rings wholly false to me.
Again, maybe real estate is different than most businesses. I wouldn't trust him to run most types of companies for that reason. AFAIK, most of the non-real estate things his name is on is simply licensing agreements.
When I say that I think he's bad at business, this is what I'm talking about. We know that his money has grown relatively slowly and from Crain's, we can see Trump LLC wouldn't be considered a growth company. I think the really great managers and CEOs can jump between industries because their skill comes from a set of processes and perspective. I don't think you can put Trump in that category - I think he's great at a small slice of one industry.
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On March 06 2016 04:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:34 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:25 wei2coolman wrote:On March 06 2016 03:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. If we accept for the moment that Trump has made racist and bigot remarks then it must follow that his supporters are aware of these remarks. If they still want to vote for Trump despite him making racist and bigot remarks then they are presumably ok with those statements. If your ok with racist and/or bigot remarks you are (at least somewhat) a racist and a bigot. It really isn't that hard. That's some serious logic skipping there. Just because someone calls you a racist and bigot, doesn't make you one. Trump supporters realize this, and that's why every single time the media tries to call Trump, and his supporters racist, or bigot, the more support he gets. People have come to realize how silly it's become. I mean we see an obvious media deflection of Trump supporter comments. People are seeing this kind of shit day in and day out from the media, and they've come to realize how silly it is to try and characterize a significant chunk of America as "racist and bigoted", because it doesn't mirror their actual day to day interactions, and how much the media is trying to push this idea of victimization that doesn't reflect reality. Like I said: On March 06 2016 03:21 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. Another ridiculous strawman -- nobody is characterizing "all of Donalt Trump supporters as racists and bigots". The reality is, however, that Trump does attract bigots and racists in huge numbers, more than any other candidate. This is extensively documented by exit polls on a variety of issues. It is factual that there are proportionally more racist and bigoted people supporting Trump than other candidates. That is the reality of the situation. Proportional to what?
To the total amount of supporters, compared to the proportions found for other candidates.
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On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 01:09 kwizach wrote:On March 05 2016 20:53 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
[quote]
Having a difference of opinion should not be offensive, yet it is to leftists especially the ones at university.This is the generation who demands "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings".Instead of debating ideas on their merits the left increasingly focuses on the race, gender, sexuality of who spouts those ideas.It is a worrying trend.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
The left created Trump. Posts like this are really rich because they clearly display the massive dishonesty and hypocrisy displayed by many on the right when it comes to responsibility. They will be harping about "personal responsibility" all the time, but when it comes to the actual responsibility of the right/Republican party for literally anything, they'll always weasel their way into finding someone else to blame ("Thanks, Obama."). The left did not create Trump. At all. The right created two things, which allowed for Trump's rise: 1. With regards to the whole debate on political correctness, the right took an epiphenomenon (yes, there have been some issues here and there on campuses with protests preventing some speakers from holding their conferences) and turned it into a giant caricature in order to have something to rally against. Cries about "political correctness" are usually cries about not being able to openly state racist and sexist views that are no longer deemed acceptable, because society has become more critical of bigots and the different routes through which bigotry is expressed and acted upon. Many people on the right have made this into a huge issue precisely because they would like to be seen as victims (another hilarious hypocrisy -- blaming people on the left who supposedly play the "victim card", when they're doing it all the time) instead of bigots, and because it's a useful tool to rile up and mobilize their base. When someone seen as a fierce opponent of "political correctness" therefore becomes popular notably due to that trait, you can blame the right for how prominent the issue has become as a caricature, not the left. 2. More importantly and fundamentally, the right is responsible for creating a climate of fear regarding pretty much all of the buttons that Trump is pushing: the idea that the U.S. is in a terrible state (not true), the idea that all other states walk over the U.S. on the international stage (not true), the idea that immigrants have a negative impact on the economy (not true), the idea that the U.S. would be better off without Obama's stimulus and its contribution to the debt (not true), the idea that there are easy solutions to ISIS that Obama is not pursuing (not true), the idea that Obama is a president who doesn't love the U.S. (not true), etc. etc. The right is entirely responsible for the bogeymen they've constructed about Obama, his policies, and the state of the U.S. for the last eight years, it is responsible for the inflammatory rhetoric they've employed on these topics, and it is responsible for the despicable tolerance it has shown towards extreme ideas and individuals in its ranks (did the left encourage Trump in his xenophobic insistence that Obama may not be an American? Or was that the right, as usual?). The idea that the left created Trump is both factually false and a perfect example of the hypocrisy coming from the right on these issues. It'd be laughable if it wasn't a terrible sign regarding the state of American politics. Both the left and the right created current state of Trump. Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources. The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable.
Xenophobic != racist.
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On March 06 2016 04:09 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:02 Jormundr wrote:On March 06 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:On March 06 2016 03:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. If we accept for the moment that Trump has made racist and bigot remarks then it must follow that his supporters are aware of these remarks. If they still want to vote for Trump despite him making racist and bigot remarks then they are presumably ok with those statements. If your ok with racist and/or bigot remarks you are (at least somewhat) a racist and a bigot. It really isn't that hard. This post angers me so much. It is filled with so much ignorance and self righteousness. My girlfriend is black, her parents are black and i have plenty of friends who are black who support trump. First off, donald trump is not a racist despite what the media tells you. I can't count the times tha trump is misquoted by the media or when he is taken out of context. He is by no means a racist. Coolman hit the nail on the head stating how liberals need racists and bigots as fuel for their campaign. Sure, the racist supporters are the most vocal or the most covered by the media, but in actuality they represent a small base of his support. Donald trump is getting support from a variety of people who have one thing in common: their discontent with modern politics and the elite political circle. The reason for this discontent varies greatly among many different people. Trump is rough around the edges and may not say everything in the most politcally correct manner. However, i believe he is saying what needs to be said and that he means well. He is not racist and I believe the pc crowd is way too thin skinned. Ignorance and self righteousness are what you embody as a trump supporter. Sorry fam. Every trump supporter is ignorant and self righteous? That sounds pretty ignorant to me.
Hey calm down mr PC police. I didn't technically say that ALL trump supporters were r̶a̶p̶i̶s̶t̶s̶ ignorant. Why don't you just read into my words a bit more to find the true meaning? My phrases are as perfectly crafted as trump's and you have to be stupid if you're calling me ignorant because my posts are top notch. Take anybody important on this forum and they will tell you, his posts are solid gold. Anybody else, they couldn't write these posts because they're all so worried about being politically correct, but not me!
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United States22883 Posts
On March 06 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. If we accept for the moment that Trump has made racist and bigot remarks then it must follow that his supporters are aware of these remarks. If they still want to vote for Trump despite him making racist and bigot remarks then they are presumably ok with those statements. If your ok with racist and/or bigot remarks you are (at least somewhat) a racist and a bigot. It really isn't that hard. This post angers me so much. It is filled with so much ignorance and self righteousness. My girlfriend is black, her parents are black and i have plenty of friends who are black who support trump. First off, donald trump is not a racist despite what the media tells you. I can't count the times tha trump is misquoted by the media or when he is taken out of context. He is by no means a racist. Coolman hit the nail on the head stating how liberals need racists and bigots as fuel for their campaign. Sure, the racist supporters are the most vocal or the most covered by the media, but in actuality they represent a small base of his support. Donald trump is getting support from a variety of people who have one thing in common: their discontent with modern politics and the elite political circle. The reason for this discontent varies greatly among many different people. Trump is rough around the edges and may not say everything in the most politcally correct manner. However, i believe he is saying what needs to be said and that he means well. He is not racist and I believe the pc crowd is way too thin skinned.
I don't think Trump is a racist, but I think he's happy to benefit from racists who support him. I also think the anti-PC line is used to mask some other types of bigotry, particularly his misogyny (which we have a long history for before the Megyn Kelly incident) and xenophobia.
"Sick of PC culture" line is not new, and there's certainly cases where PC culture can go too far, but a lot of the time it's used to mask some nasty things.
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On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 01:09 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Posts like this are really rich because they clearly display the massive dishonesty and hypocrisy displayed by many on the right when it comes to responsibility. They will be harping about "personal responsibility" all the time, but when it comes to the actual responsibility of the right/Republican party for literally anything, they'll always weasel their way into finding someone else to blame ("Thanks, Obama.").
The left did not create Trump. At all. The right created two things, which allowed for Trump's rise:
1. With regards to the whole debate on political correctness, the right took an epiphenomenon (yes, there have been some issues here and there on campuses with protests preventing some speakers from holding their conferences) and turned it into a giant caricature in order to have something to rally against. Cries about "political correctness" are usually cries about not being able to openly state racist and sexist views that are no longer deemed acceptable, because society has become more critical of bigots and the different routes through which bigotry is expressed and acted upon. Many people on the right have made this into a huge issue precisely because they would like to be seen as victims (another hilarious hypocrisy -- blaming people on the left who supposedly play the "victim card", when they're doing it all the time) instead of bigots, and because it's a useful tool to rile up and mobilize their base. When someone seen as a fierce opponent of "political correctness" therefore becomes popular notably due to that trait, you can blame the right for how prominent the issue has become as a caricature, not the left.
2. More importantly and fundamentally, the right is responsible for creating a climate of fear regarding pretty much all of the buttons that Trump is pushing: the idea that the U.S. is in a terrible state (not true), the idea that all other states walk over the U.S. on the international stage (not true), the idea that immigrants have a negative impact on the economy (not true), the idea that the U.S. would be better off without Obama's stimulus and its contribution to the debt (not true), the idea that there are easy solutions to ISIS that Obama is not pursuing (not true), the idea that Obama is a president who doesn't love the U.S. (not true), etc. etc. The right is entirely responsible for the bogeymen they've constructed about Obama, his policies, and the state of the U.S. for the last eight years, it is responsible for the inflammatory rhetoric they've employed on these topics, and it is responsible for the despicable tolerance it has shown towards extreme ideas and individuals in its ranks (did the left encourage Trump in his xenophobic insistence that Obama may not be an American? Or was that the right, as usual?).
The idea that the left created Trump is both factually false and a perfect example of the hypocrisy coming from the right on these issues. It'd be laughable if it wasn't a terrible sign regarding the state of American politics. Both the left and the right created current state of Trump. Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources. The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist.
Ah yes the nuanced xenophobes with their rich intellectual history need to seriously distance themselves from the despicable racists. What a travesty if we'd mingle them both together.
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On March 06 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Both the left and the right created current state of Trump.
Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources.
The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. Ah yes the nuanced xenophobes with their rich intellectual history need to seriously distance themselves from the despicable racists. What a travesty if we'd mingle them both together.
Wait, is this coming from a German? I'm not sure if the irony escapes you...
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On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 01:09 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Posts like this are really rich because they clearly display the massive dishonesty and hypocrisy displayed by many on the right when it comes to responsibility. They will be harping about "personal responsibility" all the time, but when it comes to the actual responsibility of the right/Republican party for literally anything, they'll always weasel their way into finding someone else to blame ("Thanks, Obama.").
The left did not create Trump. At all. The right created two things, which allowed for Trump's rise:
1. With regards to the whole debate on political correctness, the right took an epiphenomenon (yes, there have been some issues here and there on campuses with protests preventing some speakers from holding their conferences) and turned it into a giant caricature in order to have something to rally against. Cries about "political correctness" are usually cries about not being able to openly state racist and sexist views that are no longer deemed acceptable, because society has become more critical of bigots and the different routes through which bigotry is expressed and acted upon. Many people on the right have made this into a huge issue precisely because they would like to be seen as victims (another hilarious hypocrisy -- blaming people on the left who supposedly play the "victim card", when they're doing it all the time) instead of bigots, and because it's a useful tool to rile up and mobilize their base. When someone seen as a fierce opponent of "political correctness" therefore becomes popular notably due to that trait, you can blame the right for how prominent the issue has become as a caricature, not the left.
2. More importantly and fundamentally, the right is responsible for creating a climate of fear regarding pretty much all of the buttons that Trump is pushing: the idea that the U.S. is in a terrible state (not true), the idea that all other states walk over the U.S. on the international stage (not true), the idea that immigrants have a negative impact on the economy (not true), the idea that the U.S. would be better off without Obama's stimulus and its contribution to the debt (not true), the idea that there are easy solutions to ISIS that Obama is not pursuing (not true), the idea that Obama is a president who doesn't love the U.S. (not true), etc. etc. The right is entirely responsible for the bogeymen they've constructed about Obama, his policies, and the state of the U.S. for the last eight years, it is responsible for the inflammatory rhetoric they've employed on these topics, and it is responsible for the despicable tolerance it has shown towards extreme ideas and individuals in its ranks (did the left encourage Trump in his xenophobic insistence that Obama may not be an American? Or was that the right, as usual?).
The idea that the left created Trump is both factually false and a perfect example of the hypocrisy coming from the right on these issues. It'd be laughable if it wasn't a terrible sign regarding the state of American politics. Both the left and the right created current state of Trump. Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources. The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist.
I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 06 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Both the left and the right created current state of Trump.
Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources.
The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. Ah yes the nuanced xenophobes with their rich intellectual history need to seriously distance themselves from the despicable racists. What a travesty if we'd mingle them both together. Fair point. I was writing a post about a distinction between hatred based on skin color vs culture but neither are really separable from the other.
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On March 06 2016 04:26 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. Ah yes the nuanced xenophobes with their rich intellectual history need to seriously distance themselves from the despicable racists. What a travesty if we'd mingle them both together. Wait, is this coming from a German? I'm not sure if the irony escapes you...
I don't get it. I've never defended German xenophobes or racists. Pretty much nobody worth taking seriously here does
Fair point. I was writing a post about a distinction between hatred based on skin color vs culture but neither are really separable from the other.
It's an empty distinction along the lines of "Islam is not a race". You can't just take your culture off like you can a t-shirt, and it's being used left and right to perpetuate stereotypes about numerous groups. Not to mention that race is a purely cultural and political concept as well, there is no biological justification for it.
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On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 01:09 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Posts like this are really rich because they clearly display the massive dishonesty and hypocrisy displayed by many on the right when it comes to responsibility. They will be harping about "personal responsibility" all the time, but when it comes to the actual responsibility of the right/Republican party for literally anything, they'll always weasel their way into finding someone else to blame ("Thanks, Obama.").
The left did not create Trump. At all. The right created two things, which allowed for Trump's rise:
1. With regards to the whole debate on political correctness, the right took an epiphenomenon (yes, there have been some issues here and there on campuses with protests preventing some speakers from holding their conferences) and turned it into a giant caricature in order to have something to rally against. Cries about "political correctness" are usually cries about not being able to openly state racist and sexist views that are no longer deemed acceptable, because society has become more critical of bigots and the different routes through which bigotry is expressed and acted upon. Many people on the right have made this into a huge issue precisely because they would like to be seen as victims (another hilarious hypocrisy -- blaming people on the left who supposedly play the "victim card", when they're doing it all the time) instead of bigots, and because it's a useful tool to rile up and mobilize their base. When someone seen as a fierce opponent of "political correctness" therefore becomes popular notably due to that trait, you can blame the right for how prominent the issue has become as a caricature, not the left.
2. More importantly and fundamentally, the right is responsible for creating a climate of fear regarding pretty much all of the buttons that Trump is pushing: the idea that the U.S. is in a terrible state (not true), the idea that all other states walk over the U.S. on the international stage (not true), the idea that immigrants have a negative impact on the economy (not true), the idea that the U.S. would be better off without Obama's stimulus and its contribution to the debt (not true), the idea that there are easy solutions to ISIS that Obama is not pursuing (not true), the idea that Obama is a president who doesn't love the U.S. (not true), etc. etc. The right is entirely responsible for the bogeymen they've constructed about Obama, his policies, and the state of the U.S. for the last eight years, it is responsible for the inflammatory rhetoric they've employed on these topics, and it is responsible for the despicable tolerance it has shown towards extreme ideas and individuals in its ranks (did the left encourage Trump in his xenophobic insistence that Obama may not be an American? Or was that the right, as usual?).
The idea that the left created Trump is both factually false and a perfect example of the hypocrisy coming from the right on these issues. It'd be laughable if it wasn't a terrible sign regarding the state of American politics. Both the left and the right created current state of Trump. Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources. The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist.
You know the other side has no substantive reply to what you're saying when that's the extent of their retort.
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On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Both the left and the right created current state of Trump.
Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources.
The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry.
I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands.
But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them.
On March 06 2016 04:33 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Both the left and the right created current state of Trump.
Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources.
The right is too much of coward to go after Trump like the last Fox debate initially, now its too late. False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. You know the other side has no substantive reply to what you're saying when that's the extent of their retort.
Doesn't take much to retort what you have going for.
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On March 06 2016 04:21 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:09 SolaR- wrote:On March 06 2016 04:02 Jormundr wrote:On March 06 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:On March 06 2016 03:20 Gorsameth wrote:On March 06 2016 03:14 wei2coolman wrote:
I just find it hilarious how easy the left can characterize all of Donald Trump supporters as racists and bigots, despite his massive wide appeal among Americans, all while being unable to explain the falling rates of hate crime in America.
It's simply a supply and demand problem from the left. They need racists and bigots to fuel their cause, but they're running out of actual supply of racists and bigots, that they have to widen their definition every single time to compensate for their lack of actual supply. If we accept for the moment that Trump has made racist and bigot remarks then it must follow that his supporters are aware of these remarks. If they still want to vote for Trump despite him making racist and bigot remarks then they are presumably ok with those statements. If your ok with racist and/or bigot remarks you are (at least somewhat) a racist and a bigot. It really isn't that hard. This post angers me so much. It is filled with so much ignorance and self righteousness. My girlfriend is black, her parents are black and i have plenty of friends who are black who support trump. First off, donald trump is not a racist despite what the media tells you. I can't count the times tha trump is misquoted by the media or when he is taken out of context. He is by no means a racist. Coolman hit the nail on the head stating how liberals need racists and bigots as fuel for their campaign. Sure, the racist supporters are the most vocal or the most covered by the media, but in actuality they represent a small base of his support. Donald trump is getting support from a variety of people who have one thing in common: their discontent with modern politics and the elite political circle. The reason for this discontent varies greatly among many different people. Trump is rough around the edges and may not say everything in the most politcally correct manner. However, i believe he is saying what needs to be said and that he means well. He is not racist and I believe the pc crowd is way too thin skinned. Ignorance and self righteousness are what you embody as a trump supporter. Sorry fam. Every trump supporter is ignorant and self righteous? That sounds pretty ignorant to me. Hey calm down mr PC police. I didn't technically say that ALL trump supporters were r̶a̶p̶i̶s̶t̶s̶ ignorant. Why don't you just read into my words a bit more to find the true meaning? My phrases are as perfectly crafted as trump's and you have to be stupid if you're calling me ignorant because my posts are top notch. Take anybody important on this forum and they will tell you, his posts are solid gold. Anybody else, they couldn't write these posts because they're all so worried about being politically correct, but not me!
This post made the topic great again! (sorry)
I came to wonder, why is the option of a brokered convention so upsetting to republicans?
To me it kind of seems like when a lot of small parties form a coalition to be able to govern when the biggest party is not big enough itself, and everyone else hates it in a multiparty system?
I get it that it's not that "clean" but at least over here it's not the devil's fork either.....
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Basically what I have gleamed from reading this thread over the last day or so is educational. I'm not from America so I am learning as I go here.
I have learned that:
Trump supporters are not all just idiots who have no idea what they really want.
Instead they are just people who will vote for absolutely anyone, regardless of what they actually say, as long as they are 'anti-establishment'.
That's super, super hardcore smart like.
You show the political establishment guys! You tell 'em.
Who cares about the actual consequences of voting for a fucking idiot who has no clue what he's talking about, who can't even convince himself that he's right about himself???
Not you guys, you're super smart. You're gonna really show those politicians whose boss by making the USA an absolute laughing stock worldwide for the forseeable future.
Nice job.
FYI the second most signed petition in the entire history of the UK was to ban the guy from our country for hate speech and inciting racial tension.
But you go ahead and vote for him. That'll show the Clintons what's what.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
srs policy talk. there is a legitimate argument against h1b visa vs simply giving individuals status without it being tied to a particular employer. it does not have the same indentured servant negotiation advantage built in to h1b
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On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:33 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:48 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:36 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 03:34 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:00 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 02:42 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 02:41 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
False equivalence. I refer you to the post to which you replied. It isn't making equivalence of anything. Its fact. Did you read your own post? You are portraying the right and the left has having equivalently contributed to the rise of Trump. "Left is too fiscally wasteful on how they want to spent the country's resources" is also not a fact. It's an opinion, and a simplistic and largely wrong one at that. Again, I refer you to my original post as to why the right is very much to blame for the rise of Trump. I didn't say they equivalenty contributed rise of Trump. It wasn't equally contributed at all. The Left have done much more to the rise of Trump much more than the Right. I refuted that idea in my original post. You're wrong, not much more to add. There is zero substance to support that ridiculous assertion of yours. You are assuming that he is a racist/sexist, which is a ridiculous assertion just by itself. Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front. edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. You know the other side has no substantive reply to what you're saying when that's the extent of their retort. Doesn't take much to retort what you have going for.
If that was the case, you'd have already replied to my original post instead of posting irrelevant drivel.
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On March 06 2016 04:43 Jockmcplop wrote:
Basically what I have gleamed from reading this thread over the last day or so is educational. I'm not from America so I am learning as I go here.
I have learned that:
Trump supporters are not all just idiots who have no idea what they really want.
Instead they are just people who will vote for absolutely anyone, regardless of what they actually say, as long as they are 'anti-establishment'.
That's super, super hardcore smart like.
I'm pretty sure, way fucking early in this thread I made a bid of Bernie Sanders + Barnie Frank, would be an awesome combo to run. I just find the demonization of Trump, and his supporters doesn't contribute shit to the conversation. If the left wasn't so fucking retarded regarding identity politics, they would strictly talk about Trump policies. Instead, by demonizing him, and his supporter, Trump grows stronger by the day.
On March 06 2016 04:45 oneofthem wrote:
srs policy talk. there is a legitimate argument against h1b visa vs simply giving individuals status without it being tied to a particular employer. it does not have the same indentured servant negotiation advantage built in to h1b
Not sure about the specifics, but I do know my two friends who went to teach English in Korea and Taiwan both had to have sponsored Visa to work there... I'd imagine it's not much different.
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EPT
