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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
March 01 2016 19:00 GMT
#61701
On March 02 2016 02:44 xDaunt wrote:
No one knows what a racist is anymore. But whatever. Keep debasing the meaning of the word and see where it gets you.


Trump's supporters are clearly racist. This isn't an issue of ambiguity or bias. This is outright racism. And being anti-PC isn't an excuse to align yourself with white supremacists.
rip passion
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 01 2016 19:01 GMT
#61702
haha

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
March 01 2016 19:03 GMT
#61703
rip passion
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-01 19:03:46
March 01 2016 19:03 GMT
#61704
cruz is pretty chaotic evil. trump is more like chaotic neutral.

hillary is lawful good in the daytime and chaotic good at night
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
March 01 2016 19:03 GMT
#61705
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6382 Posts
March 01 2016 19:04 GMT
#61706
On March 02 2016 03:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:37 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:24 Plansix wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:19 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:50 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:49 Plansix wrote:
Pretty sure it is unchanged. The systemic repression of people based on their race or origin, that white people say isn't really a problem, doesn't exist and likely doesn't need to be addressed. At least in the US.

Sure, because only white people say that.

I really only speak for my own race on the subject, but I see an annoying high number of them saying racism isn't really a big deal in the US any more. Which is standard, because people denied racism was a problem they need to address back during civil rights. And I mean white liberals in New England. It took a lot of convincing to sway people take action and get involved.

Are you saying that racism will be a big issue as long as there are people who say it isn't?

I am pretty sure irrational fear and repression of "the other" will be a problem as long as there are humans. It has been a problem for every culture and race throughout all of history. There is no reason to believe we have magically addressed the issue or it is gone. All evidence points to the opposite being true, that it is an ongoing and systemic problem.

So you have an a priori conviction that racism will be a problem forever, and that's enough for you to say that it's still a big issue in wider US society today.

Who are white people to argue with "all evidence," indeed...

So is your argument that racism is no longer an issue in America worthy of national attention?

That sounds good.
On March 02 2016 03:41 Plansix wrote:
That we have addressed the problems of systematic repression based on race to the best of our ability?

You're working in a framework where the problem is a boogeyman that can never be solved, and where 1850, 1950, and 2050 are equivalent because of that.

I'm suggesting these things:
-You being white is not a credential for speaking "for" white people
-Believing that in 2016 you need any kind of national movement or awareness organized under the controversial notion that "racism is bad" serves only to feed the egos of the people involved, who want at some level to show they're engaged in a revolutionary struggle against good and evil the rest of us somehow forgot to RSVP to. There's no special insight gleaned by that attitude.
-There will always be racism, just like there will always be poverty, hunger, disease, and so forth, and insofar as your goal (general "you") is to make the world a better place rather than just prove to your peers what a good person you are, the focus needs to be on finding solutions to specific problems in a rational way. And that point is important, because a delusion that you're doing something when you're doing nothing is itself harmful to progress.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 01 2016 19:04 GMT
#61707
On March 02 2016 04:03 Deathstar wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ3UW4d5s2w


The bigger message is that Paul Ryan and the other GOP leaders have yet to say he has disqualified himself to be the Republican nominee and should drop out. Meaning they still want power whatever the case may be.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 01 2016 19:05 GMT
#61708
On March 02 2016 04:03 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.

I think Trump wants single payer. He just won't say it openly because he knows that he can't right now.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 01 2016 19:07 GMT
#61709
On March 02 2016 04:04 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:41 Plansix wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:37 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:24 Plansix wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:19 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:50 oBlade wrote:
On March 02 2016 02:49 Plansix wrote:
Pretty sure it is unchanged. The systemic repression of people based on their race or origin, that white people say isn't really a problem, doesn't exist and likely doesn't need to be addressed. At least in the US.

Sure, because only white people say that.

I really only speak for my own race on the subject, but I see an annoying high number of them saying racism isn't really a big deal in the US any more. Which is standard, because people denied racism was a problem they need to address back during civil rights. And I mean white liberals in New England. It took a lot of convincing to sway people take action and get involved.

Are you saying that racism will be a big issue as long as there are people who say it isn't?

I am pretty sure irrational fear and repression of "the other" will be a problem as long as there are humans. It has been a problem for every culture and race throughout all of history. There is no reason to believe we have magically addressed the issue or it is gone. All evidence points to the opposite being true, that it is an ongoing and systemic problem.

So you have an a priori conviction that racism will be a problem forever, and that's enough for you to say that it's still a big issue in wider US society today.

Who are white people to argue with "all evidence," indeed...

So is your argument that racism is no longer an issue in America worthy of national attention?

That sounds good.
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:41 Plansix wrote:
That we have addressed the problems of systematic repression based on race to the best of our ability?

You're working in a framework where the problem is a boogeyman that can never be solved, and where 1850, 1950, and 2050 are equivalent because of that.

I'm suggesting these things:
-You being white is not a credential for speaking "for" white people
-Believing that in 2016 you need any kind of national movement or awareness organized under the controversial notion that "racism is bad" serves only to feed the egos of the people involved, who want at some level to show they're engaged in a revolutionary struggle against good and evil the rest of us somehow forgot to RSVP to. There's no special insight gleaned by that attitude.
-There will always be racism, just like there will always be poverty, hunger, disease, and so forth, and insofar as your goal (general "you") is to make the world a better place rather than just prove to your peers what a good person you are, the focus needs to be on finding solutions to specific problems in a rational way. And that point is important, because a delusion that you're doing something when you're doing nothing is itself harmful to progress.

A simple yes or no would have sufficed, but thank you for answering.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ErectedZenith
Profile Joined January 2016
325 Posts
March 01 2016 19:08 GMT
#61710
On March 02 2016 04:00 oneofthem wrote:
it's doubtful that trump knows either.


Its not like he wrote a book about his plans or anything /s.
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
March 01 2016 19:08 GMT
#61711
On March 02 2016 04:05 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 04:03 kwizach wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.

I think Trump wants single payer. He just won't say it openly because he knows that he can't right now.

Isn't it more logical to assume that Trump "wants" what will give him votes?
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44231 Posts
March 01 2016 19:08 GMT
#61712
On March 02 2016 04:00 ErectedZenith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:57 KwarK wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

How can you separate what he says just because and what he says because he means? Trump might have a plan but it's doubtful anyone but him knows any part of what it is.


Well nobody asks him about his plans.

The media are all like "You are a -cist!".

That's the fault of the media, no Trump to focus less on his plans.

Okay. Take his Mexico wall. When the Mexican president said Mexico wouldn't be paying for a wall and Trump was asked to comment he said "tell him it just got 10 ft higher". Should we take this to mean that Trump's planned wall was planned to be 10 ft shorter than it needed to be and that he was hoping for this in order to get it to the needed height? Or will it now be 10 ft taller than it has any need to be? If the Mexicans still refuse to pay will it end up 20 ft taller? 30?

This is not a man with a plan.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 01 2016 19:08 GMT
#61713
On March 02 2016 04:05 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 04:03 kwizach wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.

I think Trump wants single payer. He just won't say it openly because he knows that he can't right now.

he's for the lowest cost to employers option while also providing some coverage. this really should be the gop's plan but lol
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6382 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-01 19:10:34
March 01 2016 19:09 GMT
#61714
On March 02 2016 04:00 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 02:44 xDaunt wrote:
No one knows what a racist is anymore. But whatever. Keep debasing the meaning of the word and see where it gets you.


Trump's supporters are clearly racist. This isn't an issue of ambiguity or bias. This is outright racism. And being anti-PC isn't an excuse to align yourself with white supremacists.

Good, keep doing this. 6 months of it might not have stopped Trump's momentum, but another 8 months and his campaign will be crippled.

On March 02 2016 03:57 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

How can you separate what he says just because and what he says because he means? Trump might have a plan but it's doubtful anyone but him knows any part of what it is.

That's the big issue with politicians in general. You have to be so detached to differentiate what points are serious and what points are just noise, and to pick out when the person is lying, when they're saying something they likely can't deliver. We have to be so careful not to just say we believe the things politicians say that we'd like to be true.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
March 01 2016 19:09 GMT
#61715
This notion that one can't successfully attack Trump using the identity of his supporters given Trump's ability to capitalize on negative press is tantamount to suggesting that the media is the only party with useful weapons. Word of mouth disapproval of what Trump stands for is running like wildfire through both my law school and work environment, and I've heard very similar stories from friends affiliated with large institutions. Granted, anecdotes are anecdotes, but election perspectives inevitably require some degree of anecdotal inference when it comes to qualifying the state of the race, and I've seen pro-Trump fervor get easily matched by anti-Trump fervor in all places but the media spotlight, a place in which we all know Trump is quite comfortable.

Again, this election seems rife with lessons, and I think there'll be a big one to learn from come the general election
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
March 01 2016 19:10 GMT
#61716
On March 02 2016 04:05 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 04:03 kwizach wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.

I think Trump wants single payer. He just won't say it openly because he knows that he can't right now.

He may very well want single payer, but he has no plan to implement it.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 01 2016 19:12 GMT
#61717
On March 02 2016 04:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 04:03 Deathstar wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ3UW4d5s2w


The bigger message is that Paul Ryan and the other GOP leaders have yet to say he has disqualified himself to be the Republican nominee and should drop out. Meaning they still want power whatever the case may be.


Fundamentally they can't disqualify Trump without destroying their party. It would be the emptiest of empty threats.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44231 Posts
March 01 2016 19:12 GMT
#61718
On March 02 2016 04:10 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2016 04:05 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 04:03 kwizach wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
On March 02 2016 03:52 KT_Elwood wrote:
Trump has no plan, only catchy phrases.

I think that only people who aren't paying attention think that this is the case. It is more accurate to state that Trump has a plan, some of which he has revealed (protectionism, immigration reform, isolationism etc), and the rest of which he's purposefully obscuring (health care in particular comes to mind).

No, I think that people who are paying attention know very well that Trump has no real plan for healthcare, and that he's improvising as he goes. The same is true for protectionism, immigration reform, and isolationism. His bombastic statements don't qualify as a plan, and he's contradicted in his public interventions the little that he has put forward on his own website.

I think Trump wants single payer. He just won't say it openly because he knows that he can't right now.

He may very well want single payer, but he has no plan to implement it.

Mexico will pay for it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 01 2016 19:13 GMT
#61719
Ted Cruz is calling on Marco Rubio to suspend his campaign after Super Tuesday, contending that the Florida senator will have no realistic path to the nomination after roughly a dozen states vote Tuesday.

“He is a very talented individual, but Marco does not have any viable path whatsoever to beat Donald Trump,” the Texas senator told conservative radio host Mike Gallagher on Tuesday. “In the first four states, he has gone 0-for-4. He has not won a state.”

Indeed, Cruz won the Iowa caucuses and Trump romped in the next three contests by double-digit margins. Rubio has been praised for strong finishes but has yet to win a state. Nevertheless, he has vowed to stay in as long as it takes to stop Trump — but Cruz doesn't see that happening.

“In all likelihood today, he is not anticipating winning any states,” Cruz said of Rubio. “In all likelihood, he will lose every single Super Tuesday state, and even his home state of Florida. He’s 20 points down.”

So far, Trump leads the race with 82 delegates, followed by Cruz with 17 and Rubio with 16. Several states holding primaries on Super Tuesday maintain thresholds of 20 percent for awarding delegates — Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Tennessee and Vermont — raising the prospect that Rubio may end up blanked in one or more of those contests. And in Alabama, Trump would win every delegates should he top 50 percent of the votes.

Trump will likely maintain his lead in delegates, the Texas senator acknowledged, but Cruz will continue to follow in second after Super Tuesday, which he predicted will yield “a huge drop-off” of candidates.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 01 2016 19:13 GMT
#61720
On March 02 2016 04:09 farvacola wrote:
This notion that one can't successfully attack Trump using the identity of his supporters given Trump's ability to capitalize on negative press is tantamount to suggesting that the media is the only party with useful weapons. Word of mouth disapproval of what Trump stands for is running like wildfire through both my law school and work environment, and I've heard very similar stories from friends affiliated with large institutions. Granted, anecdotes are anecdotes, but election perspectives inevitably require some degree of anecdotal inference when it comes to qualifying the state of the race, and I've seen pro-Trump fervor get easily matched by anti-Trump fervor in all places but the media spotlight, a place in which we all know Trump is quite comfortable.

Again, this election seems rife with lessons, and I think there'll be a big one to learn from come the general election

neither is all that representative tho. you are better off listening to local radio and such
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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