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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
January 15 2016 05:56 GMT
#54901
Whenever I hear of Flint it makes me think of the one of the first SimCity games where the tutorial thing was like save Flint because it's fucking failing.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
January 15 2016 12:24 GMT
#54902
That place seems like a proper mess. What is it about Michigan that makes it such a shithole? A crumbling automobile industry?
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 15 2016 14:29 GMT
#54903
I'll just leave this here.

[image loading]


Source.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 15 2016 15:01 GMT
#54904
tbf though, Bernie is a whole lot harder to sell to the undecided people than Obama could have ever been in any possible worst-case scenario.

Just call Bernie a communist and a lot of people are already not going to consider him no matter what.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45236 Posts
January 15 2016 15:09 GMT
#54905
Here's to hoping, though! I'd much prefer a President Sanders to a President (H.) Clinton.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45236 Posts
January 15 2016 15:20 GMT
#54906
28 WTF Moments from the Sixth Republican Debate
The final Republican debate before the Iowa caucuses was the most explosive yet

It featured a nasty spat between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz over the "birther issue"; a firefight over immigration between Marco Rubio and Cruz; Jeb Bush insulting the pair as "back bench senators"; Trump blasting Jeb as a weakling; Chris Christie reviling President Barack Obama as a "petulant child"; and moderator Maria Bartiromo asking Ben Carson to opine on whether Hillary Clinton is an "enabler of sexual misconduct."

The GOP debate — the sixth of this election cycle — aired on Fox Business from North Charleston, South Carolina. The event showcased a smaller slate of candidates: just seven left standing, as Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and former HP CEO Carly Fiorina did not make the polling cutoff for the main event. (Fiorina nonetheless caught the attention of the Twitterverse by trolling Clinton during the undercard debate: "Unlike another woman in this race," the failed tech exec said, "I actually love spending time with my husband.")

Entering debate night, Senator Ted Cruz had a big target on his chest. Cruz has surged in Iowa polling, challenging Trump for frontrunner status. This has spurred Trump (and even a non-trolling constitutional scholars) to question whether the Canada-born Cruz meets the constitution's "natural-born citizen" requirement for the White House. More trouble for Cruz: The New York Times reported Wednesday that the self-styled anti-establishment senator received more than $1 million in low-interest loans from Wall Street giants Goldman Sachs and Citi to fund his 2012 Senate run — financing he did not list on federal campaign disclosures.

Trump, by contrast, entered debate night buoyed by a new NBC poll showing him with a 13-point national lead over Cruz. Better news for Trump: He's no longer the frontrunner the majority of the GOP can't stomach. In the same poll, 65% of Republicans now say they could embrace Trump as the party's nominee, up from just 23% back in March.

The Thursday debate wasn't just heated, it was downright weird. And, dragging on almost two-and-a-half hours, it offered nearly every candidate a chance to say something disqualifying.

Here, the 28 most WTF moments from Thursday's Republican debate:

1. Ted Cruz on how why he would have gone to war this week after U.S. sailors were briefly detained for straying into Iranian waters: “If I am elected president, no service man or service woman will be forced to be on their knees. And any nation that captures our fighting men will feel the full force and fury of the United States of America.”

2. Chris Christie blasting Barack Obama's overly optimistic State of the Union speech: "On Tuesday night, I watched storytime with Barack Obama — and it sounded like everything was going amazing."

3. Jeb Bush, mixing up Dodd-Frank Wall Street regulations with U.S. foreign policy, in an attack on Clinton: "She wants to continue down the path of Iran, Benghazi, the Russian reset, Dodd-Frank, all the things that have — that have gone wrong in this country, she would be a national security mess."

4. Marco Rubio on what he would give ISIS radicals captured on the battlefield: "They are getting a one-way ticket to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba."

5. Trump on immigrant doctors from Syria: "That could be the great Trojan horse."

6. Ben Carson, receiving his first question after 15 minutes of debate: "I didn't expect a question this early on; I was going to ask you to wake me up when the time came."

7. Cruz on why he hid $1 million in Wall Street financing from voters: "I made a paperwork error."

8. Cruz on why Trump is making birther attacks now, after he argued last fall that there was no controversy over the senator's citizenship: "Since September, the Constitution hasn't changed. But the poll numbers have."

9. Trump on why he's gone birther on Cruz: "I win. I choose him as my vice presidential candidate, and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK?"

10. Christie bragging about how he preserving New Jersey residents' right to own a rifle that can pierce armored vehicles: "I have vetoed a .50-caliber rifle ban."

11. Rubio on Obama and the second amendment: "I'm convinced that if this president could confiscate every gun in America, he would."

12. Trump on his temper: "I will gladly accept the mantle of anger."

13. Cruz on Obama and the terrorists: "We have a president... who acts an apologist for radical Islamic terrorism."

14. Cruz defending his attacks on Trump over New York values: "Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan, I'm just saying."

16. Trump on whether he's rethinking his ban on Muslims: "No."

17. Trump on why not: "I want security ... People come in, they live, they shoot."

18. Trump, elaborating: "We can't be the stupid country any more."

19. Jeb on Trump's anti-Muslim plan: "Every time we send a signal like this, it's a signal of weakness not strength."

20. Trump body-slamming Bush: "We don't need a weak person as president of the United States. Because that's what we'd get with Jeb."

21. Trump on the attack this week in Jakarta: "Indonesia: bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb."

22. Trump on America's true victims: "The police are the most mistreated people in this country."

23. Rubio on America's most famous whistleblower: "Edward Snowden is a traitor, and if we get our hands on him and I'm president, he's going to be tried for treason."

24. Christie, after Rubio asked for a chance to circle back to a question on Social Security and Medicare: "You already had your chance, Marco. You blew it."

25. Christie on Obama, cops and weed: "This is a guy who just believes law enforcement are the bad guys… a guy who doesn't enforce the marijuana laws because he doesn't agree with them, and he lets the states do whatever they want on a substance that's illegal."

26. Trump on the fate of his company if he wins: "If I became president, I couldn't care less about my company. It's peanuts. I have Ivanka and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company kids, have a good time."

27. Cruz after Marco Rubio unloaded a barrage of attacks on him as a flip-flopper: "I appreciate your dumping your oppo research folder on the debate stage."

28. Cruz on Black Lives Matter: "I want to speak to all of those maddened by political correctness, where Hillary Clinton apologizes for saying all lives matter. This will end. It will end on January 2017."

~ http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/28-wtf-moments-from-the-sixth-republican-debate-20160115

Did they miss any?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8695 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 15:24:07
January 15 2016 15:23 GMT
#54907
On January 16 2016 00:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Here's to hoping, though! I'd much prefer a President Sanders to a President (H.) Clinton.


I mean, I can see where you are coming from and feel sympathy for your position. and from a eu position sanders would actually be pretty familiar in many ways.

and yet, sanders winning the primary against clinton would guarantee anyone of those republican clowns to win the presidency.

the stigma of socialism and generally center - right leaning of americans are too much of a gap to bridge.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45236 Posts
January 15 2016 15:27 GMT
#54908
Quite the opposite. The Republicans have no chance of winning the election. The winner of the Democratic primary- either Bernie or Hillary- will become the next president of the United States.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
January 15 2016 15:31 GMT
#54909
Where was Carly Fiorina during this debate? Wasn't she supposed to get affirmative action no matter how bad her polls were on grounds of being the only female? Same for Rand Paul on account of being the only Libertarian.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
January 15 2016 15:40 GMT
#54910
I'm most interested in how electing Trump, of all people, would solve nr 18.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14092 Posts
January 15 2016 15:42 GMT
#54911
On January 15 2016 21:24 DickMcFanny wrote:
That place seems like a proper mess. What is it about Michigan that makes it such a shithole? A crumbling automobile industry?

Not all of Michigan is a shithole. Most of the ban news you hear is coming from detriot and its suberbs.
[image loading]

theres not much you can do about something like this. Most of the population is way to spread out to economically do things like public water and sewers and with the whole place being a shithole there isn't money to fix anything so things just get worse. The whole "city" is a bad joke financially because of this.

There really isn't any way to save Detroit.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8695 Posts
January 15 2016 15:42 GMT
#54912
On January 16 2016 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Quite the opposite. The Republicans have no chance of winning the election. The winner of the Democratic primary- either Bernie or Hillary- will become the next president of the United States.


hillary - yes. she's just pro and knows how to play the game - for better and worse.

bernie, no way. I would even go so far as to say Trump with his atrocious polling numbers could beat him in the general. why? negative campaigning.
republicans are paramount at that, they made kerry, a decorated war veteran look horrible next to bush - who had basically had a vacation at home.

and bernie is the easiest target imaginable. let's just put it that way. republicans would rather have bernie to run against, than the correct numbers on the current superball. and I am only half joking.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23600 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 15:49:31
January 15 2016 15:47 GMT
#54913
The Clinton camp threw Chelsea under the bus quick fast and in a hurry. As if we didn't see Hillary and other surrogates attempt to try the same attack lines.

In a conference call with reporters on Wednesday, Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon defended Chelsea Clinton as a “very spirited and fierce advocate for her parents.”

Asked if she would continue to attack Sanders and whether she’s suited for the role, Fallon called Chelsea Clinton “policy-obsessed” and said the attack lines had not been planned.


Source

It appears she's throwing out her pledge not to run negative attack adds too. We are definitely on to "... then they fight you..."
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
January 15 2016 15:49 GMT
#54914
Hillary Clinton is current losing to Ted Cruz in polls, and barely beating Trump, and Sanders beats both Cruz and Trump by almost 20 points.
rip passion
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14092 Posts
January 15 2016 15:57 GMT
#54915
On January 16 2016 00:42 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Quite the opposite. The Republicans have no chance of winning the election. The winner of the Democratic primary- either Bernie or Hillary- will become the next president of the United States.


hillary - yes. she's just pro and knows how to play the game - for better and worse.

bernie, no way. I would even go so far as to say Trump with his atrocious polling numbers could beat him in the general. why? negative campaigning.
republicans are paramount at that, they made kerry, a decorated war veteran look horrible next to bush - who had basically had a vacation at home.

and bernie is the easiest target imaginable. let's just put it that way. republicans would rather have bernie to run against, than the correct numbers on the current superball. and I am only half joking.

You gotta look at the electoral map though. Bernie sanders is going to play really well in Florida. Without florida republicans don't have a path to victory in the general and Trump is never going to be competative in florida. Bill clinton and obama are going to be able to keep most of the previously safe blue states blue. what states is trump going to be able to put into play?

I'd even say holding texas is going to bleed the gop coffers a ton this cycle. George bush proved that the only way to a gop vicotry is with the latino vote. Trump went and called them a bunch of drug dealing criminals and even worse rapists.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 16:01:00
January 15 2016 16:00 GMT
#54916
On January 16 2016 00:42 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Quite the opposite. The Republicans have no chance of winning the election. The winner of the Democratic primary- either Bernie or Hillary- will become the next president of the United States.


hillary - yes. she's just pro and knows how to play the game - for better and worse.

bernie, no way. I would even go so far as to say Trump with his atrocious polling numbers could beat him in the general. why? negative campaigning.
republicans are paramount at that, they made kerry, a decorated war veteran look horrible next to bush - who had basically had a vacation at home.

and bernie is the easiest target imaginable. let's just put it that way. republicans would rather have bernie to run against, than the correct numbers on the current superball. and I am only half joking.


Except that national polls show that Sanders has a much better chance vs. most candidates than Clinton does. Unless the GOP somehow avoids Cruz or Trump getting elected, they are done.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18846 Posts
January 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#54917
Feel the Bern, my US politics friends
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23600 Posts
January 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#54918
On January 16 2016 00:42 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2016 21:24 DickMcFanny wrote:
That place seems like a proper mess. What is it about Michigan that makes it such a shithole? A crumbling automobile industry?

Not all of Michigan is a shithole. Most of the ban news you hear is coming from detriot and its suberbs.
[image loading]

theres not much you can do about something like this. Most of the population is way to spread out to economically do things like public water and sewers and with the whole place being a shithole there isn't money to fix anything so things just get worse. The whole "city" is a bad joke financially because of this.

There really isn't any way to save Detroit.


Pretty sure OCP has a great plan to fix Michigan, particularly the Detroit area.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8695 Posts
January 15 2016 16:06 GMT
#54919
On January 16 2016 01:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 00:42 Doublemint wrote:
On January 16 2016 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Quite the opposite. The Republicans have no chance of winning the election. The winner of the Democratic primary- either Bernie or Hillary- will become the next president of the United States.


hillary - yes. she's just pro and knows how to play the game - for better and worse.

bernie, no way. I would even go so far as to say Trump with his atrocious polling numbers could beat him in the general. why? negative campaigning.
republicans are paramount at that, they made kerry, a decorated war veteran look horrible next to bush - who had basically had a vacation at home.

and bernie is the easiest target imaginable. let's just put it that way. republicans would rather have bernie to run against, than the correct numbers on the current superball. and I am only half joking.


Except that national polls show that Sanders has a much better chance vs. most candidates than Clinton does. Unless the GOP somehow avoids Cruz or Trump getting elected, they are done.


I am not sold on that. yes much of it currently looks that way, but SO incredibly many things can still happen...

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

btw. I just love this interactive map.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 15 2016 16:07 GMT
#54920
There's a little too much emphasis being placed on the hypothetical, head-to-head match-up polls. They have about as much meaning as the primary polls that were taken back in August. There will be a significant re-settling of the political landscape in the wake of the party conventions this summer.
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