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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 13 2015 17:49 GMT
#50481
Wait, so South Park is some metric if something has merit or not? Where does the Daily Show fit into this metric? How about the Simpsons and Parks and Rec in the previous seasons? Should we seek Ron Swanson’s hot take on the PC movement?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Trainrunnef
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States599 Posts
November 13 2015 17:53 GMT
#50482
dozens of older episodes of South Park were caricatures of the conservative ideologies so not sure how it makes any case other than pointing out which arguments are the most popular at the time. remember.... "They took our jobs!"
I am, therefore I pee
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 13 2015 17:56 GMT
#50483
On November 14 2015 02:53 Trainrunnef wrote:
dozens of older episodes of South Park were caricatures of the conservative ideologies so not sure how it makes any case other than pointing out which arguments are the most popular at the time. remember.... "They took our jobs!"

That's the point. Typically the far right has been the target for South Park. And never was an entire season dedicated to lampooning one topic.

But whatever, people will take what they will from it.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 13 2015 18:09 GMT
#50484
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 18:12:21
November 13 2015 18:11 GMT
#50485
I don't think shows along the lines of South park have mocked conservatives a lot, wasn't there even the term "Southpark Republican" around at some point? I think that's actually quite a funny thing among conservatives in many countries right now, they just love to maneuver themselves into the victim role. Everything nowadays is a war on Christmas, war on the family, the traditional values and so on. Pretty ironic for people who demand not to be offended all the time.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
November 13 2015 18:18 GMT
#50486
On November 14 2015 03:11 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't think shows along the lines of South park have mocked conservatives a lot, wasn't there even the term "Southpark Republican" around at some point? I think that's actually quite a funny thing among conservatives in many countries right now, they just love to maneuver themselves into the victim role. Everything nowadays is a war on Christmas, war on the family, the traditional values and so on. Pretty ironic for people who demand not to be offended all the time.


It's not a conservative thing or a liberal thing. Right now everyone wants to be a victim. People are trying to score free points by being the most persecuted. I'm a victim of this, that, and the other thing. I'm offended by everything. People on every side do it now and it's gross. It ruins things for actual victims who are actually persecuted, killed, tortured, assaulted, etc. It's becoming the boy who cried wolf and its fucking sad.
LiquidDota Staff
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 13 2015 18:19 GMT
#50487
There are very few people I know that would consider Trey Parker and Matt Stone to be progressive. They play it off that they are “neutral” and make fun of everyone, but they have political views that bleed into their work. They do market to a specific type of people, just like the daily show.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
November 13 2015 18:19 GMT
#50488
On November 14 2015 03:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV4EjC_MgAk


Carson should consult one of his fellow doctors, preferably a gastroenterologist because he's full of shit.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 13 2015 18:36 GMT
#50489
A Utah judge reversed his decision to take a baby away from her lesbian foster parents and place her with a heterosexual couple after the ruling led to widespread backlash.

Judge Scott Johansen signed an order, which was released on Friday, that will allow the nine-month-old baby to stay with April Hoagland and Beckie Peirce, a married couple who live in the city of Price.

It comes after Johansen said in court on Tuesday that the baby would be removed from the couple’s home. Utah officials and the couple filed court challenges demanding the judge rescind the order.

In his first decision, Johansen cited research that shows children do better when raised by heterosexual families. However, the American Psychological Association has said there’s no scientific basis that gay couples are unfit parents based on sexual orientation.

Messages left with Jim Hunnicutt, a lawyer for the couple, and the Utah Division of Child and Family Services seeking comments on the judge’s revised order were not immediately returned Friday.

Hoagland and Peirce are among a group of same-sex married couples who were allowed to become foster parents in Utah after last summer’s US supreme court ruling that made gay marriage legal across the country. State officials don’t keep an exact count but estimate there are a dozen or more foster parents who are married same-sex couples.

A full transcript of Johansen’s initial ruling has not been made public and may not be because court records of cases involving foster children are kept private to protect the kids. Johansen is precluded by judicial rules from discussing pending cases, Utah courts spokeswoman Nancy Volmer has said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 18:47:43
November 13 2015 18:42 GMT
#50490
This judge sounds like a winner:

Johansen has drawn the ire in Utah for past rulings that were criticized as arbitrary. He once sent a teenager to juvenile detention over a poor report card, and in 2012 he reduced a 13-year-old girl’s community service hours only after she had her ponytail chopped off in court – a punishment for the teenager’s part in cutting a three-year-old’s hair.


Hopefully the couple can get an injunction quickly and this judge can be sent packing before he does more damage.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
November 13 2015 18:45 GMT
#50491
On November 14 2015 03:42 Plansix wrote:
This judge sounds like a winner:

Show nested quote +
Johansen has drawn the ire in Utah for past rulings that were criticized as arbitrary. He once sent a teenager to juvenile detention over a poor report card, and in 2012 he reduced a 13-year-old girl’s community service hours only after she had her ponytail chopped off in court – a punishment for the teenager’s part in cutting a three-year-old’s hair.


Hopefully the couple can get an injunction quickly and this judge can be sent packing before she does more damage.


its apparently already resolved (at least temporarily)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/us/utah-judge-lesbian-couple-child/index.html
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:00:35
November 13 2015 18:59 GMT
#50492
On November 14 2015 03:11 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't think shows along the lines of South park have mocked conservatives a lot, wasn't there even the term "Southpark Republican" around at some point? I think that's actually quite a funny thing among conservatives in many countries right now, they just love to maneuver themselves into the victim role. Everything nowadays is a war on Christmas, war on the family, the traditional values and so on. Pretty ironic for people who demand not to be offended all the time.
It's to be expected that people used to a dominant Christian culture and institutions react angrily to marginalization in secular society. It's pretty telling how very little you hear from people here about a war on Christmas or the like. Essentially you're addressing some other group to rebut a present group. If both sides do it it, surely you can find more relevant examples. It's like the invocation of faux posters that only watch Fox News as was done in pages past.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 13 2015 19:14 GMT
#50493
Pope Francis’s campaign for the climate has won hearts and minds in the United States in just a matter of months, suggests a recent survey of Americans’ attitudes to climate change. Yale University researchers are calling it another example of “The Francis Effect.”

The number of people who are worried about global warming has increased by 8% among Americans and 11% among Catholics, according to a November report by the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication and the George Mason University Center for Climate Change Communication. The report draws on a nationally representative survey of of 900 respondents.

Meanwhile, the percentage of Americans who say global warming is happening grew from 62% in March to 66% in October this year. And there’s been an even bigger increase in the number of American Catholics who recognize global warming: from 64% in March to 74% in October.

Pope Francis spoke movingly about the issue in September before the United Nations General Assembly in New York, when he warned that “a selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity leads both to the misuse of available natural resources and to the exclusion of the weak and disadvantaged.”

In the survey report, researchers credit Pope Francis for much of the shift in public opinion:

Our findings suggest that the Pope’s teachings about global warming contributed to an increase in public engagement on the issue, and influenced the conversation about global warming in America; we refer to this as The Francis Effect.

Many of those surveyed (17% of Americans and 35% of American Catholics) said the Pope’s views on global warming had influenced their own.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:19:58
November 13 2015 19:19 GMT
#50494
Johansen has drawn the ire in Utah for past rulings that were criticized as arbitrary. He once sent a teenager to juvenile detention over a poor report card, and in 2012 he reduced a 13-year-old girl’s community service hours only after she had her ponytail chopped off in court – a punishment for the teenager’s part in cutting a three-year-old’s hair.

What? I don't even understand how that can be possible and I read the following article from link.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 13 2015 19:27 GMT
#50495
On November 14 2015 04:19 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
Johansen has drawn the ire in Utah for past rulings that were criticized as arbitrary. He once sent a teenager to juvenile detention over a poor report card, and in 2012 he reduced a 13-year-old girl’s community service hours only after she had her ponytail chopped off in court – a punishment for the teenager’s part in cutting a three-year-old’s hair.

What? I don't even understand how that can be possible and I read the following article from link.

No one challenged the order or it was a violation of the terms of a conviction.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:34:11
November 13 2015 19:32 GMT
#50496
On November 14 2015 02:16 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2015 02:00 zlefin wrote:
This kind of rude nonsense that is occurring is the reason I don't post more, I prefer to debate actual issues, but too many here are too rude for my pansy tastes. please tone it down xdaunt.

I find it hilarious that so many people have zero clue why the debate is what it is despite the fact that I've explained it (as have others) in painstaking detail over the past several pages. And it's even funnier how people taking the opposite side are completely oblivious as to their role all in all of this. But given that it apparently is lost on so many of you still, let me reiterate:

When the charge of racism is so casually thrown around, things are bound to get ugly, and the semantics of the debate are bound to become the debate itself.

And again, it's not my side that brought out the R-word.

I'm more on your side than theirs; and I already understood those points, since, as you said, they have been well explained. I just want more civility.

PS south park makes fun of everybody, so I don't see it as much of a metric.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23105 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:36:32
November 13 2015 19:36 GMT
#50497
What's sad is how much more sensitive to "charges of racism being casually thrown around" than actual racism (systemic or otherwise) xDaunt and that camp is.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:45:16
November 13 2015 19:42 GMT
#50498
On November 14 2015 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
What's sad is how much more sensitive to "charges of racism being casually thrown around" than actual racism (systemic or otherwise) xDaunt and that camp is.

And you cannot blame them for it. You can't force anyone to see let alone feel as you do.
I personally consider that most accusation of racism in our media are complete bull, and yet in concrete situation I have faced situation of racism (not against me of course) that made me completly mad (I personally feel like it's outrageous that some people can dress up as "african mama" or "black face").
The problem is that, in our days, there is such an hysteria, in the media and everywhere else, around what is politically okay and what is not, that people overreact in certain situation when hearing certain complex comment (try talking about women with a feminist, you can't say anything), a situation that lead, at the other side of the spectrum, to a relative boredom and insensitivity when actual racism is actually happening.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23105 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:55:26
November 13 2015 19:52 GMT
#50499
On November 14 2015 04:42 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2015 04:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
What's sad is how much more sensitive to "charges of racism being casually thrown around" than actual racism (systemic or otherwise) xDaunt and that camp is.

And you cannot blame them for it. You can't force anyone to see let alone feel as you do.
I personally consider that most accusation of racism in our media are complete bull, and yet in concrete situation I have faced situation of racism (not against me) that made me completly mad (I personally feel like it's outrageous that some people can dress up as "african mama" or "black face").
The problem is that, in our days, there is such an hysteria, in the media and everywhere else, around what is politically okay and what is not, that people overreact in certain situation when hearing certain complex comment (try talking about women with a feminist, you can't say anything), a situation that lead, at the other side of the spectrum, to a relative boredom and insensitivity when actual racism is actually happening.


The responsible thing to do is realize that after hundreds of years of oppression and exploitation all of which was called and treated as it is now "Fredrick Douglass is an extremist", "MLK is overreacting, it's not that bad", "This women's suffrage movement is too much", "They already have it easier than us men!", on and on and on you can find the same crowds dismissing calls for the end of exploitation and/or oppression using the same BS rhetoric. Rather than realize they were bigoted assholes in every instance in history they think

"surely this is the time where my complaints about their complaints are justified!"

Hence going back to fragility. Century after century decade after decade the same groups of people were wrong about people over-blowing oppression and exploitation, why they think suddenly they are right about this time, comes from a long tradition of being oblivious.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-13 19:57:30
November 13 2015 19:54 GMT
#50500
A large portion of the "racism' in the media is unconscious and mostly had to do with stereotyping. Its a problem that only only faces minorities, but women and older actors as well. The fixation of what a female politician is wearing. If said black expert on a TV show was "to angry". If an some older actor is "sexy enough" to act in some role that has nothing to do with sex. That the news always describes every white shooter as a "loner who had few friends, but never seemed like he could do this".

And people can have opinions and be parts of discussions. But there is a difference between being part of the discussion and just waiting for your turn to speak.

Edit: And GH is right that a lot of the language you hear about people complaining about progressives almost mirrors complaints from 100 years ago. Including men being upset that they were not "given the time to speak about their views on women's right."(note, normally those views were how it wasn't a big deal or how women were being to aggressive)
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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