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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up.
I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word.
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On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too  I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white.
We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though.
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United States42695 Posts
On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word.
Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with.
Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it.
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Canada11350 Posts
On November 13 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 12:55 Falling wrote:
I've defended in the past the idea that racism is prejudice + power, but I'm not so sure anymore. Or rather, there is an attempt to make the academic separation, but I'm not sure it's how the word 'racism' is used in the vernacular, at least not yet. And until the vernacular has changed, it comes off weird, the idea that in North America, only whites can be racist. I get the distinction intellectually- that there is a distinction between having prejudices and having prejudices and having prejudices with power... but in that case, the difference is power. Prejudice + power = Racism + power.
Because on a visceral level, it feels like it is being said is that North American whites are a special kind of evil. That they are the only ones that can be prejudiced. That is not what is meant, but the prejudice + power = racism formula does tend to put the conversation on very weird footing as people naturally react against the idea that white North Americans are special kind of evil or that African-Americans cannot be prejudiced (which is the meaning most people get, when they hear 'cannot be racist" ...as in that video). Again, I get the academic distinction, but I don't think that's actually how the word is actually used day to day except in certain circles and the corresponding connotation feels intuitively wrong. White fragility is a hell of a drug.
It has nothing to do with fragility and everything to do with does the descriptor correspond to reality, if not you will get push back. A kumbya narrative of First Nation history (there was no violence until Europeans showed up in North America) will get push back because it seems counter-intuitive to human nature. So too the phrase 'x people group cannot be racist' does not sound like it describes a reality that matches human nature, when racism has tended to mean beliefs that other groups are inferior, which is not an exclusive to white European psyche. I very much agree that there is something fundamentally different between having a racist attitude and systematic racism, but I am starting to lean towards the prejudice formula doesn't actually say what most people mean by 'that's racist.' Let's talk about systematic racism and racism + power, but trying to argue that racism means prejudice + power shifts the entire argument into a very weird space.
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On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though.
I am not "white"...
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On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now.
People can use term any way they feel like. If someone is so dead set on being about to point at a black person and call them racist, I'm willing to not care and just agree when I would have used bigoted. I really don't care that much and I'm not that invested.
But when we talk about systematic racism in the US, we are referencing a power structure that is overwhelmingly occupied by white people. Not Asians, not Native Americans. White people occupy the majority of positions of power in the US. That is just a fact. So when people talk about racism in the state of Missouri, which has a long history systematic racism, a couple videos of black people being mean other races doesn't disprove the existence of the problem in that state. Or any other state.
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On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it.
Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist.
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On November 13 2015 13:50 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though. I am not "white"...
Congratulations!
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I like this MattBarry guy.
Defending my right to be racist! (kinda not really)
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United States42695 Posts
On November 13 2015 13:51 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it. Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist.
I have no idea what you mean by
but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist.
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On November 13 2015 13:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:50 MaCRo.gg wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though. I am not "white"... Congratulations!
GH, you are dangerously close to the point where I call you out on being a douchebag.
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On November 13 2015 13:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:50 MaCRo.gg wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though. I am not "white"... Congratulations! GH, you are dangerously close to the point where I call you out on being a douchebag.
I'm dangerously close to caring. This whole thing is absurd.
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On November 13 2015 13:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:54 Plansix wrote:On November 13 2015 13:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:50 MaCRo.gg wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though. I am not "white"... Congratulations! GH, you are dangerously close to the point where I call you out on being a douchebag. I'm dangerously close to caring. This whole thing is absurd.
Lots of things are, but TL is filled with people of different races and nationalities. So maybe just stick to calling people white that you know are white, rather than assuming people are to gain a quick edge in the argument.
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On November 13 2015 13:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:51 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it. Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I have no idea what you mean by Show nested quote +but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist.
I'll try to explain it more clearly. "White people can't be racist" is a very provocative statement because the people saying it know the average joe doesn't know about the racism=power+prejudice concept. Or perhaps I'm being too assuming in thinking they know the average person doesn't know. Regardless, it's a very inflammatory statement. You piss people off and immediately make them feel as though they're under attack for being white. People aren't going to listen to your excellent points about the systemic racism minorities face if they feel as though you're demonizing them.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Honestly call it what you want so long as I can still make fun of my friends and they can make fun of me on the basis of race. That's what's really important.
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On November 13 2015 13:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:50 MaCRo.gg wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 13:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 13 2015 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2015 12:58 farvacola wrote:Self-appointed spokespersonhood on behalf of an entire racial group is a hell of a drug too I hardly imagine myself as a spokesperson, there are just no other black people around whatsoever (the only other one got fed up and left). I just can't stand idly by and watch the circle jerk without at least trying to interject some perspective (although I know it mostly falls on deaf ears). Quite an assumption thinking that everyone here is white. We've established there aren't any other black people who post in this thread. I'm well aware there are a few non-white posters though. I am not "white"... Congratulations!
You really sound like you want some sort of praise for posting as an African-American.
Stop playing into the stereotype.
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United States42695 Posts
On November 13 2015 13:58 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:54 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:51 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it. Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I have no idea what you mean by but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I'll try to explain it more clearly. "White people can't be racist" is a very provocative statement because the people saying it know the average joe doesn't know about the racism=power+prejudice concept. Or perhaps I'm being too assuming in thinking they know the average person doesn't know. Regardless, it's a very inflammatory statement. You piss people off and immediately make them feel as though they're under attack for being white. People aren't going to listen to your excellent points about the systemic racism minorities face if they feel as though you're demonizing them.
Who claimed that white people can't be racist? I'm sure I didn't. Where are you getting this from?
Seriously, you are having an argument with someone who isn't me but I appear to still be involved. What is going on here?
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Just because blacks face systemic racism from whites doesn't mean blacks can't be racist. I am referencing the notion that blacks can't be racist, because racism has to do as much about power as prejudice. A notion believed by quite a few people here, and the people in the youtube video earlier.
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On November 13 2015 14:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:58 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:54 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:51 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it. Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I have no idea what you mean by but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I'll try to explain it more clearly. "White people can't be racist" is a very provocative statement because the people saying it know the average joe doesn't know about the racism=power+prejudice concept. Or perhaps I'm being too assuming in thinking they know the average person doesn't know. Regardless, it's a very inflammatory statement. You piss people off and immediately make them feel as though they're under attack for being white. People aren't going to listen to your excellent points about the systemic racism minorities face if they feel as though you're demonizing them. Who claimed that white people can't be racist? I'm sure I didn't. Where are you getting this from? Seriously, you are having an argument with someone who isn't me but I appear to still be involved. What is going on here?
Am I misunderstanding something? I was under the assumption you were advocating for the "racism=power+prejudice" definition of racism, correct?
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On November 13 2015 14:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 13:58 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:54 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:51 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:45 MattBarry wrote:On November 13 2015 13:41 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:34 Deathstar wrote:On November 13 2015 13:26 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2015 13:17 Deathstar wrote:
From merriam-webster,
racism:
racial prejudice or discrimination
That is a clear definition. You know what is not a clear definition?
Racism = prejudice + power. The power component is unnecessary on whether you are racist or not. I think we're a little beyond quoting dictionaries here. However I did look up the word dictionary in merriam-webster and you'll be surprised to learn that in no way does it claim that a dictionary is anything more than a reference book containing information. So, if the dictionary is to be trusted then you could reference a dictionary for information about racism but you should not expect the dictionary to provide you with a clear definition. The dictionary describing itself thinks it doesn't give a clear definition. The point was that talking about power is not necessary to answering the question of "Is this person a racist". And a dictionary is a good place to start, unless we're going to start making up words now. How on earth do you think words happen if people don't make them up? English majors don't track them down and capture them for selective breeding and dissemination to society. They don't run wild and they're not a mineral. Every word is made up. I don't think a majority of white americans recognize the racism=power+prejudice definition. When you start telling someone a word doesn't mean what they and most people they know think it means and start redefining you come across as an arrogant ivory tower jerk who redefines words to suit a narrative. If you actually care about getting through to people, it'd be much more effective to just...not define racism that way and use a different word. Okay. I'll let the word catchers know to go back out into the field and find us a new word to refer to it with. Incidentally a majority of white Americans used to think that laws against interracial marriage weren't racist etc. A system where white Americans exclusively get to define racist systems would be an excellent candidate for that new word, once we've found it. Cute rhetoric. Good luck accomplishing anything when you have a powder keg that derails meaningful discussion and immediately pisses off the opposing side and makes them not want to see your point. Obviously many people will be racist despite your best efforts, but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I have no idea what you mean by but I know you piss off otherwise reasonable people when you tell them they can't be racist. I'll try to explain it more clearly. "White people can't be racist" is a very provocative statement because the people saying it know the average joe doesn't know about the racism=power+prejudice concept. Or perhaps I'm being too assuming in thinking they know the average person doesn't know. Regardless, it's a very inflammatory statement. You piss people off and immediately make them feel as though they're under attack for being white. People aren't going to listen to your excellent points about the systemic racism minorities face if they feel as though you're demonizing them. Who claimed that white people can't be racist? I'm sure I didn't. Where are you getting this from? Seriously, you are having an argument with someone who isn't me but I appear to still be involved. What is going on here?
Pretty much sounds like FOX's stance on racism.
Yes, it happened it probably is around still and we agree that it is bad.
But why talk about it when we can complain about Obama and highlight bad people like Greg Hardy.
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EPT
