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On November 12 2015 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +Police arrested a 19-year-old white man on Wednesday on suspicion of making threats on social media to shoot black people at the University of Missouri's main Columbia campus, just two days after the school's president and chancellor stepped down following protests over their handling of reports of racial abuse.
Tensions at the campus are still running high after the resignations on Monday, with a greater-than-usual police presence and several students leaving the area saying they felt unsafe.
Police arrested suspect Hunter M. Park in Rolla, Missouri, which is about 95 miles (150 km) south of Columbia, at about 1:50 a.m. local time (0750 GMT).
Park is a sophomore at Missouri University of Science and Technology (S&T) in Rolla, which is part of the University of Missouri System, according to a spokeswoman at the Rolla campus. He is studying computer science.
Police said the suspect's threats had circulated on social media, including Yik Yak, where an anonymous post tagged 'Columbia' late on Tuesday read: "I'm going to stand my ground tomorrow and shoot every black person I see."
"Some of you are alright. Don't go to campus tomorrow," another post read. “We’re waiting for you at the parking lots,” said a third post. “We will kill you." SourceSounds like a wanna be terrorist to me.
Not that he'll ever be called that.
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On November 12 2015 05:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Police arrested a 19-year-old white man on Wednesday on suspicion of making threats on social media to shoot black people at the University of Missouri's main Columbia campus, just two days after the school's president and chancellor stepped down following protests over their handling of reports of racial abuse.
Tensions at the campus are still running high after the resignations on Monday, with a greater-than-usual police presence and several students leaving the area saying they felt unsafe.
Police arrested suspect Hunter M. Park in Rolla, Missouri, which is about 95 miles (150 km) south of Columbia, at about 1:50 a.m. local time (0750 GMT).
Park is a sophomore at Missouri University of Science and Technology (S&T) in Rolla, which is part of the University of Missouri System, according to a spokeswoman at the Rolla campus. He is studying computer science.
Police said the suspect's threats had circulated on social media, including Yik Yak, where an anonymous post tagged 'Columbia' late on Tuesday read: "I'm going to stand my ground tomorrow and shoot every black person I see."
"Some of you are alright. Don't go to campus tomorrow," another post read. “We’re waiting for you at the parking lots,” said a third post. “We will kill you." SourceSounds like a wanna be terrorist to me. Not that he'll ever be called that.
Loner, kept to himself, had friends but no close friends, no one thought he could do this, never really expressed extreme views to family members. The standard.
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On November 12 2015 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 12 2015 03:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Ben Carson frightens me. I honestly think he is mentally unstable at this point. I think he gave himself a lobotomy. He really is just wacky and suffering from foot-in-mouth syndrome. But Trump does that too. I'm really having a hard time figuring out whether the new Sarah Palin is Donald Trump or Ben Carson. Thoughts? They both just make up shit and lie all the time, so they both have that in common with Palin. On the one hand, Trump and Palin both speak with loud, ignorant conviction. On the other hand, Carson and Palin both have this constant look of drunken bewilderment. Who is Palin 2.0? I think Trump is more a case of saying dumb shit because people want to hear it and Carson saying it because he believes it. I definitely consider Carson to be more insane by a significant margin. Even Trump isn't dumb enough to think the Pyramids were grain silo's
I think this is a good distinction to draw.
Donald Trump says that Hillary Clinton is the worst Secretary of State in history even though it's not very hard to find some worse ones because he knows people want to hear it. If he sat down and did the research I don't think he would come to that conclusion (though he might still say it for votes), it's just hyperbole.
+ Show Spoiler +Though I am starting to believe he's foolish enough to think correlation is the same as causation...which is utterly terrifying if you can succeed in business with that mindset.
Ben Carson probably has put research into and firmly believes all the silly and borderline falsifiable crap he says.
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On November 12 2015 04:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 04:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 12 2015 04:30 Danglars wrote:On November 12 2015 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:
How do you shrink the government by starving it? All your going to do is force programs to be closed which hurts those in need of them, often the poor/elderly/disabled.
So he wants to shrink the government by screwing over the weak.
What a brilliant plan, I am amazed why more people didn't vote him for... /s You have another idea to shrink the size of government? Whining about every cut, big or small, as hurting the poor and disadvantaged is the reason for the bloat and lack of reforms, coupled with the political gains of promising the world and political costs of talking about how we'll pay for it. Cutting the actual bloated government organizations, like the Military or the Alphabets, seems like a good start. With a look toward what sections occupy the larger slices of the federal budget, yes. Of course the military will say the money's well spent and cuts would be disastrous, as will the dept of education treasury and on down the line. Tell me the bureaucrat that thinks his agency receives too much funding and should be cut back or eliminated. We're back to the "starve the beast" perspective.
It only comes to that if you're not directly targeting the bloated sectors.
Pointing directly at the Military and saying they're receiving, say, $100billion too much will have a very different effect than looking at the whole government and telling them from a top level to find $100billion of excess.
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man
i cant deal with all these students protesting about whats going on at mizzou and yale. it's patently ridiculous. does it suck? yes. is it institutionalized racism or exploitation? not in the least bit.
at mizzou, it was one stupid guy who put something on social media. at yale, it was one frat of stupid kids and one professor making a thoughtful post about balancing freedom of expression and and censorship.
ugh.
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On November 12 2015 10:19 ticklishmusic wrote:
man
i cant deal with all these students protesting about whats going on at mizzou and yale. it's patently ridiculous. does it suck? yes. is it institutionalized racism or exploitation? not in the least bit.
at mizzou, it was one stupid guy who put something on social media. at yale, it was one frat of stupid kids and one professor making a thoughtful post about balancing freedom of expression and and censorship.
ugh.
No one understands what racism is anymore. The term is so badly overused now that it basically has no meaning.
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United States43296 Posts
A bunch of black people are claiming that they experience a thing they identify as racism and a bunch of white people, who don't experience the thing in question, are telling them that their experience is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't get how half of the microaggressions people say they experience are an issue. I just don't think that everything I don't understand doesn't exist because I recognize that my experiences are not directly comparable to those of others.
You can have no idea how a thing can be racist while at the same time acknowledging that others who are experiencing it perceive it to be so. Hell, I have no idea what it feels like for an older black guy who remembers the bad old days to be called a nigger. But if he tells me it feels pretty bad I'm not going to argue with him just because I'm fine with being called a nigger or a honkie or whatever.
There are areas where "my experience is different to yours, one of us must be wrong, let's compare evidence and find out who" applies and areas in which it does not. White guys telling black guys that their perception of racism is all wrong is one of the latter.
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On November 12 2015 10:26 KwarK wrote:
A bunch of black people are claiming that they experience a thing they identify as racism and a bunch of white people, who don't experience the thing in question, are telling them that their experience is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't get how half of the microaggressions people say they experience are an issue. I just don't think that everything I don't understand doesn't exist because I recognize that my experiences are not directly comparable to those of others.
You can have no idea how a thing can be racist while at the same time acknowledging that others who are experiencing it perceive it to be so. Hell, I have no idea what it feels like for an older black guy who remembers the bad old days to be called a nigger. But if he tells me it feels pretty bad I'm not going to argue with him just because I'm fine with being called a nigger or a honkie or whatever.
There are areas where "my experience is different to yours, one of us must be wrong, let's compare evidence and find out who" applies and areas in which it does not. White guys telling black guys that their perception of racism is all wrong is one of the latter.
So you don't agree that "racism" incorporates far more today than it ever has? Acts that were merely "insensitive" (or even less) are now considered outright racist. It's completely ludicrous. PC culture is running amok.
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I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
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On November 12 2015 10:53 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
They won't because the experience is akin to the difference between seeing a person crying in the corner during a party and seeing your girlfriend crying in the corner during a party.
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On November 12 2015 11:00 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 10:53 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
They won't because the experience is akin to the difference between seeing a person crying in the corner during a party and seeing your girlfriend crying in the corner during a party.
that, has no bearing on what I asked; which was about the legal prospects, not about it's utility for understanding the situation.
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United States43296 Posts
On November 12 2015 10:44 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 10:26 KwarK wrote:
A bunch of black people are claiming that they experience a thing they identify as racism and a bunch of white people, who don't experience the thing in question, are telling them that their experience is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't get how half of the microaggressions people say they experience are an issue. I just don't think that everything I don't understand doesn't exist because I recognize that my experiences are not directly comparable to those of others.
You can have no idea how a thing can be racist while at the same time acknowledging that others who are experiencing it perceive it to be so. Hell, I have no idea what it feels like for an older black guy who remembers the bad old days to be called a nigger. But if he tells me it feels pretty bad I'm not going to argue with him just because I'm fine with being called a nigger or a honkie or whatever.
There are areas where "my experience is different to yours, one of us must be wrong, let's compare evidence and find out who" applies and areas in which it does not. White guys telling black guys that their perception of racism is all wrong is one of the latter. So you don't agree that "racism" incorporates far more today than it ever has? Acts that were merely "insensitive" (or even less) are now considered outright racist. It's completely ludicrous. PC culture is running amok.
I think in the past what was racist was what the dominant group accepted to be racist and the voices of the subordinate groups didn't really count for much. Over time there has been a change towards, for example, asking black people what they experience as racism rather than just deciding for them and correcting them when they get it wrong. Now I'm sure you can point to some extreme example of someone black being a complete idiot and saying that that one time they weren't allowed to go on a ride because they were too short was racism or whatever but on the whole I think the shift has been a good thing.
There are an awful lot of things in society that different people experience in very different ways. The ones that are particularly problematic to white men have generally already been dealt with to an extent because white men got to choose how society was structured and, while I'm going to fall short of arguing that there was a deliberate policy to marginalize women and minority issues, the issues that were bothering white men were the ones that the people dealing with issues were most aware of. The increasing presence of women and minorities in society, politics and, if I'm going to be cynical, the economy has increased awareness that there are a bunch of issues that they face which society has been less proactive about dealing with in the past. I think a lot of PC culture is a result of the increased spending power of people who have historically been marginalized as, through the glorious power of the free market, people try to win their dollars.
There are issues that the PC crowd try to deal with that I don't get. I have no idea what it's like to be misgendered because I have always been male and nobody has ever doubted that. Even if you were to call me a girl a lifetime of being and knowing I am male would kick in and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Therefore from my cis perspective I would dismiss misgendering as a non issue. And yet trans people routinely kill themselves and rejection by society, of which misgendering is a part, is a reason why. Now either they really like killing themselves or there is something going on here which I just don't get. And that's fine. They're pretty definite that it is an issue and I'm both willing to believe them and apathetic enough to not fight them on it. If they're going to kill themselves over a pronoun then fuck it, I'll let them have the pronoun. It doesn't impact me.
There is also an element of pragmatism to it. If blacks made up 0.001% of the population and they got super pissed if you called them "boy" and insisted that it was racist, well, the argument that "I'm not offended by the word "boy" so you shouldn't be either, boy" might carry more weight. But there are a shitton of black people and they seem to care a lot about this racism thing so even if you don't agree with them it's probably still worth listening to them. The more extreme, illogical and minority groups can still be safely marginalized because they're so unpopular and so rare that nobody really cares what they think or how they spend their money.
Ultimately whole "society is becoming too PC" argument comes down to groups who are not the dominant group getting given a greater proportion of attention by consumerist society than they have previously received which, at its heart, comes down to capitalism. If you don't have all the dollars then people wanting dollars are going to appease people who have dollars and those people might not think exactly the same way you do. Overall I think it's a good thing that there aren't large groups of people who are disenfranchised and have their perception completely marginalized, even if it takes attention away from my white people issues. Any issues of comparable importance people who looked like me had were solved back when people like me exclusively made the rules, I have pretty low priority shit going on in comparison. Black people still experience a lot of prejudice in education, employment, courts and so forth whereas all I have going on is Starbucks not saying Merry Christmas. I used to have this issue with taxation and representation and tariffs on tea but we sorted that one out a while back.
TLDR: We found a lot more racism in society once we started asking black people what we were doing that was racist instead of deciding for them and letting them know. Society got a whole bunch more PC once black people got some money because we pay attention to money. It's probably overdue.
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United States43296 Posts
Hell, imagine a ranking of problems in importance from 1 to 10, 10 being the most urgently pressing. A bunch of white landowners got together and they said "We really need to separate church and state. The old country was a theocracy and that was some bullshit that routinely ignored the rights of the white landowners. Let's stop that." And don't get me wrong, that's really important, that was like a 9. I'm really into that. But if you'd asked a slave at the time what the pressing issue was he'd probably have mentioned slavery. Slavery was like a 10. And if you only had enough ink for one of them I hope you'd agree it probably should have been the slavery thing and then we could have dealt with the church and state issue 90 years later.
White men were in charge for fucking ever, all the things they experience as 10s, 9s, 8s, hell, even 3s, have already been dealt with. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Whereas women and minorities still have a bunch of 7s bothering them. The reason we hear so much about their shit is because they have more of it going on.
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On November 12 2015 11:21 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 11:00 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2015 10:53 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
They won't because the experience is akin to the difference between seeing a person crying in the corner during a party and seeing your girlfriend crying in the corner during a party. that, has no bearing on what I asked; which was about the legal prospects, not about it's utility for understanding the situation.
The first amendment (ironically) protects them in public places and if its newsworthy.
IL laws just got smashed in the 7th Circuit.
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On November 12 2015 11:45 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 11:21 zlefin wrote:On November 12 2015 11:00 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2015 10:53 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
They won't because the experience is akin to the difference between seeing a person crying in the corner during a party and seeing your girlfriend crying in the corner during a party. that, has no bearing on what I asked; which was about the legal prospects, not about it's utility for understanding the situation. The first amendment (ironically) protects them in public places and if its newsworthy. IL laws just got smashed in the 7th Circuit.
could you clarify which laws you mean by that? Some illinois laws? Or an acronym I don't recognize?
Wiretapping laws in some places prohibit/limit audio recording people in general situations like this.
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A new report has found that transitioning to a clean energy economy would be an economic boon to the United States, increasing employment, reducing costs to consumers, and benefiting investors.
The report, from NextGen Climate America, showed that investment in efficiency, renewable sources of electricity, and fuel switching — such as moving from fossil fuel-powered cars to electric vehicles — would add a million jobs by 2030, and roughly 2 million jobs by 2050, while increasing GDP by $290 billion and improving household income. The researchers looked at scenarios that would reduce emissions by 80 percent below 1990 levels.
“While addressing climate change is one of our greatest challenges, it is one of our greatest opportunities to build the economy,” Tom Steyer, co-founder of NextGen and billionaire climate activist (and a board member of the Center for American Progress), said on a call with reporters Monday.
The construction industry, in particular, could see a huge bump in jobs — to the tune of 1.2 million more in 2050 than under the business-as-usual scenario. That’s because it will take a lot of people to build the wind farms, install the solar panels, and retrofit the buildings needed to reduce America’s dependence on fossil fuels.
Efforts to lower emissions are often subject to the criticism that they will hurt the economy, even though actual examples of programs have shown that efficiency and clean energy programs can actually boost economic factors like household disposable income.
“The go-to argument against [climate action] is that it’s bad for the economy and it’s a job killer,” Steyer said. This report shows otherwise. Steyer also pointed out that in the last few years, jobs in the solar industry have grown 20 times faster than the rest of the economy.
Source
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On November 12 2015 11:54 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 11:45 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2015 11:21 zlefin wrote:On November 12 2015 11:00 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2015 10:53 zlefin wrote:
I wonder how wiretapping laws and limits on filming people would affect the viability of having some of those students that are experiencing racism using body cams or something so we could get a better sense of what the cases are.
They won't because the experience is akin to the difference between seeing a person crying in the corner during a party and seeing your girlfriend crying in the corner during a party. that, has no bearing on what I asked; which was about the legal prospects, not about it's utility for understanding the situation. The first amendment (ironically) protects them in public places and if its newsworthy. IL laws just got smashed in the 7th Circuit. could you clarify which laws you mean by that? Some illinois laws? Or an acronym I don't recognize? Wiretapping laws in some places prohibit/limit audio recording people in general situations like this.
IL wiretapping laws that the police and other pols were consistently abusing to squeltch criticism and prosecute people who exposed thier corruption.
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On November 12 2015 11:40 KwarK wrote:
Hell, imagine a ranking of problems in importance from 1 to 10, 10 being the most urgently pressing. A bunch of white landowners got together and they said "We really need to separate church and state. The old country was a theocracy and that was some bullshit that routinely ignored the rights of the white landowners. Let's stop that." And don't get me wrong, that's really important, that was like a 9. I'm really into that. But if you'd asked a slave at the time what the pressing issue was he'd probably have mentioned slavery. Slavery was like a 10. And if you only had enough ink for one of them I hope you'd agree it probably should have been the slavery thing and then we could have dealt with the church and state issue 90 years later.
White men were in charge for fucking ever, all the things they experience as 10s, 9s, 8s, hell, even 3s, have already been dealt with. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Whereas women and minorities still have a bunch of 7s bothering them. The reason we hear so much about their shit is because they have more of it going on.
So the racism in Mizzou is a 7?
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The other issue with racism/sexism is that regression is possible. New industries and existing ones may have been making strides 20 years ago only to stagnate and regress. So those 7s Kwark is talking about could have been 5s or 4s 10 years ago.
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EPT
