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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2511

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 11 2015 16:18 GMT
#50201
On November 12 2015 00:53 heliusx wrote:
No one identifies as a hick, its a word used to paint someone as uneducated simply because they were born in the south.

You must not know many southerners. There are plenty that openly refer to themselves as hicks, rednecks, and bubbas.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15689 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 16:21:30
November 11 2015 16:20 GMT
#50202
On November 12 2015 00:26 heliusx wrote:
[image loading]


This is acceptable?


Nope, because white people do not get preferential treatment when applying for scholarships. Groups that receive scholarships based on race are not to be used as a costume.

On November 12 2015 00:53 heliusx wrote:
No one identifies as a hick, its a word used to paint someone as uneducated simply because they were born in the south.


100% false. I actually got in trouble at a family gathering because I was making jokes about king of the hill. My girlfriend's cousin's boyfriend got really offended because he identifies as a redneck.
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 16:34:19
November 11 2015 16:32 GMT
#50203
OK some ignorant people embrace derogatory terms. Everyone happy? I've just never heard anyone call themselves a hick. Redneck? Sure, but not hick.
dude bro.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 11 2015 16:33 GMT
#50204
On November 12 2015 01:32 heliusx wrote:
OK some ignorant people embrace derogatory terms. Everyone happy?

I wouldn't really call my brother ignorant, so nope? Maybe the topic is more nuanced that you believe.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
November 11 2015 16:35 GMT
#50205
Yeah there's nothing ignorant about identifying with a term used to describe an uneducated Southerner, good grief.
dude bro.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 11 2015 16:44 GMT
#50206
On November 12 2015 01:35 heliusx wrote:
Yeah there's nothing ignorant about identifying with a term used to describe an uneducated Southerner, good grief.

You know you are talking about a real person, right? Not some avatar in your mind to prove your point. And we grew up in a tiny farm town and he still identifies with that upbringing of working outside and with his hands. And maybe the term doesn’t mean the same thing to him as it does to you. Words do not have singular meanings and context matter.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15689 Posts
November 11 2015 16:54 GMT
#50207
On November 12 2015 01:14 Trumpet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2015 01:02 Simberto wrote:
I must say that i really dislike the way race as an identity seems to become more prevalent. I really dislike this whole idea, and it seems inherently racist to me to assume that all people of a given skin color kind of belong together in this one big group.

There is more to people than the color of their skin, and in my opinion, the faster we get away from constantly identifying people first and foremost with their skin color the faster we can also get away from racism. A person needs to stop being "the black guy" and start being identified as "The lawyer", "The football fan", or anything along those lines.

And i really don't think focussing on making people constantly aware of the skin color of everyone around them will help this. I want to deal with people as people, not as races.


that's a lovely, utopian, post-racial view. In america, police killed a black kid for playing with a toy in public, so we still need to be reminded of how race affects our judgments on a subconscious level before we can skip to ignoring race altogether. Even in areas like my own "chocolate" city where the black population isn't a minority in number, we have huge inequality and discrimination problems.


This is all true, but how does that relate to the issue of dressing up as a black person?
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44347 Posts
November 11 2015 17:00 GMT
#50208
On November 12 2015 01:32 heliusx wrote:
OK some ignorant people embrace derogatory terms. Everyone happy? I've just never heard anyone call themselves a hick. Redneck? Sure, but not hick.


That's not the point though. The point is that a group of people are aware that they are stereotyped as such, so even if they don't want to personally take on the identity (or even if it doesn't truly apply to them), they still know that the stereotyped costume is a jab at them and their perceived identity. That's pretty much exactly what prejudice is.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
November 11 2015 17:08 GMT
#50209
OK? What exactly do you think my point is? You seem confused.
dude bro.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 11 2015 17:12 GMT
#50210
We don't know, you mostly post one sentence questions or statements.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44347 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:21:15
November 11 2015 17:20 GMT
#50211
On November 12 2015 02:08 heliusx wrote:
OK? What exactly do you think my point is? You seem confused.


I think you seem confused, because it's not your point; it's my point. I wrote out a long comment regarding that redneck costume, and all you did is write a one-liner response without context (which was obviously dismissed by everyone else already). So it seems you misunderstood the point of my initial comment. It was not all about the semantical terminology of whether a Southerner uses the term hick vs. redneck vs. whatever else to self-identify. That wasn't the point of why I wrote that comment.

Here it is again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=2510#50191
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 11 2015 17:20 GMT
#50212
^^I am certainly confused. Does this have to do with the poop swastika or the professor email?
Freeeeeeedom
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44347 Posts
November 11 2015 17:21 GMT
#50213
On November 12 2015 02:20 cLutZ wrote:
^^I am certainly confused. Does this have to do with the poop swastika or the professor email?


Talking about whether or not a redneck/ hick costume should be considered offensive by anyone: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=2510#50191
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 11 2015 17:23 GMT
#50214
We moved on to how costumes could be offensive and that it wasn't crazy to think a costume could offend someone.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 11 2015 17:28 GMT
#50215
As the dust settled over an intense Republican presidential debate in Milwaukee on Tuesday night, the instant verdict of the mainstream media was that the unexpected rise of the political outsider – in particular Donald Trump – had finally began to come unstuck.

Commentators noted that it was by far the most substantive debate in the series so far, with the two former governors Jeb Bush and John Kasich, who represent the establishment wing of the party, using the greater focus on detail to present a dramatically contrasting view on immigration to Trump’s vision of building a wall and ejecting 11 million undocumented immigrants. On foreign policy, both Trump and his immediate rival, the neurosurgeon Ben Carson, looked blustery.

But that’s not how conservative pundits saw it. In the rarified world of the conservative media, a very different account of the event was being written – one in which Trump sealed his leading status by being unbending on immigration, while Bush and Kasich, far from making a tentative comeback, dug their own presidential graves.

Michelle Malkin, a star of the conservative blogosphere, summed up the strident mood on Twitter when she portrayed Kasich and Bush “bending over backwards on behalf of Obama’s illegal ‘Dreamers’”– immigrants who were brought to the US as children.

Charles Hurt in the Washington Times went as far as to predict that Bush and Kasich, by opposing Trump’s extreme stance on immigration, had sealed their fate.

“Not only does Mr Bush not belong in the White House or the Republican Party, he should just be deported. Perhaps to Mexico, where he might be happier and find greater success in politics,” Hurt wrote, before going on to capture the anger within the Republican base that Trump is harvesting. “These people really have no clue how desperately frustrated and estranged American voters in both parties are over this issue of rampant illegal immigration and Washington’s absolute refusal to take simple, common sense measures to fix the problem.”

Glenn Beck, a former Fox News star who went on to found the rightwing radio network and website the Blaze, sounded a similar note. Kasich was the “epic loser” of the night, and as for Bush, he “looked 2001 and desperate. The cheap typical ‘vet sitting next to my wife’ close made me think he was GHWB [his father George Herbert Walker Bush]!”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
November 11 2015 17:30 GMT
#50216
On November 12 2015 02:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2015 02:08 heliusx wrote:
OK? What exactly do you think my point is? You seem confused.


I think you seem confused, because it's not your point; it's my point. I wrote out a long comment regarding that redneck costume, and all you did is write a one-liner response without context (which was obviously dismissed by everyone else already). So it seems you misunderstood the point of my initial comment. It was not all about the semantical terminology of whether a Southerner uses the term hick vs. redneck vs. whatever else to self-identify. That wasn't the point of why I wrote that comment.

Here it is again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=2510#50191

I see but the post you responded to wasn't directed at you so I don't understand why you responded with "that's not the point!". I thought it was pretty clear I was replying to the guys who know people who consider themselves hicks. So yes you are most certainly confused.
dude bro.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4756 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:33:06
November 11 2015 17:30 GMT
#50217
Wait, are there actually people in the media claiming Bush and Kasich had a good night? lol. I don't think it's just "right-wing media" that disagrees.

At the very best they were average. And Kasich really screwed up some things, and came off like a jerk.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Trumpet
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1935 Posts
November 11 2015 17:31 GMT
#50218
On November 12 2015 01:54 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2015 01:14 Trumpet wrote:
On November 12 2015 01:02 Simberto wrote:
I must say that i really dislike the way race as an identity seems to become more prevalent. I really dislike this whole idea, and it seems inherently racist to me to assume that all people of a given skin color kind of belong together in this one big group.

There is more to people than the color of their skin, and in my opinion, the faster we get away from constantly identifying people first and foremost with their skin color the faster we can also get away from racism. A person needs to stop being "the black guy" and start being identified as "The lawyer", "The football fan", or anything along those lines.

And i really don't think focussing on making people constantly aware of the skin color of everyone around them will help this. I want to deal with people as people, not as races.


that's a lovely, utopian, post-racial view. In america, police killed a black kid for playing with a toy in public, so we still need to be reminded of how race affects our judgments on a subconscious level before we can skip to ignoring race altogether. Even in areas like my own "chocolate" city where the black population isn't a minority in number, we have huge inequality and discrimination problems.


This is all true, but how does that relate to the issue of dressing up as a black person?


It wasn't directly related, it was in reply to Simberto's desire to get past race as a part of individual identity.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44347 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:45:36
November 11 2015 17:45 GMT
#50219
On November 12 2015 02:30 heliusx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2015 02:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 12 2015 02:08 heliusx wrote:
OK? What exactly do you think my point is? You seem confused.


I think you seem confused, because it's not your point; it's my point. I wrote out a long comment regarding that redneck costume, and all you did is write a one-liner response without context (which was obviously dismissed by everyone else already). So it seems you misunderstood the point of my initial comment. It was not all about the semantical terminology of whether a Southerner uses the term hick vs. redneck vs. whatever else to self-identify. That wasn't the point of why I wrote that comment.

Here it is again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=2510#50191

I see but the post you responded to wasn't directed at you so I don't understand why you responded with "that's not the point!". I thought it was pretty clear I was replying to the guys who know people who consider themselves hicks. So yes you are most certainly confused.


I said that I don't identify as a hick, then you said that no one identifies as a hick. And then a bunch of people replied to your statement, telling you that you're wrong. That was the sequence of events... no one before me (at least in the ~10 posts on that page) used the word hick, so based on the fact that you used the same vocabulary as me- "identifying as a hick"- and that you responded nearly right after me, it certainly appeared as if you were responding to me. I guess maybe you quoting someone else would have provided more clarity as to what you were really referring to?

Anyways, people can get offended by costumes. lol.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 17:56:50
November 11 2015 17:55 GMT
#50220
Perhaps but it is a lot of work to quote multiple posts on a tablet. I just assumed it was obvious considering I addressed everyone in my post and not dark plasma ball specifically. And yes for the record I agree with what you're saying but I just found it kind of strange people here couldn't comprehend that dressing as a white person could be found offensive in some cases.
dude bro.
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