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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
notesfromunderground
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
188 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:09:34
October 29 2015 00:07 GMT
#48921
On October 29 2015 09:04 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 08:55 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:53 Chewbacca. wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:35 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:35 notesfromunderground wrote:
It would just be nice if they threw in an education along with that B.S. in engineering


What do you mean by that?


I mean that job training is not the purpose of a college education. If that's the case, then I'm for the radical free market option - we should abolish public education and make companies pay to train their own employees.

The purpose of education is to help realize human flourishing and create good citizens. It has nothing to do with employment. STEM majors are receiving very little education - they are being trained. That's why we are a country overflowing with illiterates who hold bachelor's degrees.


How is STEM degrees not being aimed at creating "good citizens" any different from other degrees? How does a business degree, art degree, foreign language, etc lead to someone being a "good citizen" that a mathematics, physics, medical, or engineering degree doesn't?


Because they are not taught how to read books and think critically. I am a hard-core conservative when it comes to educational philosophy. There's only one way to get educated, and it involves starting with Plato, working forward, and then realizing that Plato was the wrong starting point.


Yea, you either haven't taken STEM classes, or haven't taken college classes at all, because going from STEM to philosophy or English or history classes is like having Kobayashi eat 12 hot dogs in a day when it comes to reading volume and critical thinking.


We might not have the same thing in mind when we say the phrase "critical thinking"

Most humanities classes are criminally easy. Because they are, for the most part, service classes for illiterate STEM majors to fulfill their requirements and it's impossible to get those kids to read anything. I know, I've tried. They are too busy doing problem sets and working jobs to service their debt to spend any energy getting educated.

Humanities education in public universities is utterly dysfunctional. I'm in the thick of it.

If you took my class when I actually got to assign the amount of work that I thought was appropriate, I would have you reduced to tears. O-chem ain't got shit on me.
frazzle
Profile Joined June 2012
United States468 Posts
October 29 2015 00:11 GMT
#48922
On October 29 2015 09:04 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 08:55 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:53 Chewbacca. wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:35 ticklishmusic wrote:
On October 29 2015 08:35 notesfromunderground wrote:
It would just be nice if they threw in an education along with that B.S. in engineering


What do you mean by that?


I mean that job training is not the purpose of a college education. If that's the case, then I'm for the radical free market option - we should abolish public education and make companies pay to train their own employees.

The purpose of education is to help realize human flourishing and create good citizens. It has nothing to do with employment. STEM majors are receiving very little education - they are being trained. That's why we are a country overflowing with illiterates who hold bachelor's degrees.


How is STEM degrees not being aimed at creating "good citizens" any different from other degrees? How does a business degree, art degree, foreign language, etc lead to someone being a "good citizen" that a mathematics, physics, medical, or engineering degree doesn't?


Because they are not taught how to read books and think critically. I am a hard-core conservative when it comes to educational philosophy. There's only one way to get educated, and it involves starting with Plato, working forward, and then realizing that Plato was the wrong starting point.


Yea, you either haven't taken STEM classes, or haven't taken college classes at all, because going from STEM to philosophy or English or history classes is like having Kobayashi eat 12 hot dogs in a day when it comes to reading volume and critical thinking.

That is such bs. In uni before I changed course, I took 3 semesters of calc for engineering, the 3 you take when you test in to a faster graduate path (i tested in high). Same with chemistry. I only took one semester of physics though. I don't think the reading quantity and critical thinking played much of any role. It was rote learning.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:19:26
October 29 2015 00:17 GMT
#48923
Having an engineer degree I confirm the lack of critical thinking involved n my formation, and the necessity of some serious science courses to form critical thinking. We'd get less dumb sociology students if they knew a bit about maths beyond computing an average (I'd have heard less about Pythagore theorem being a social construct), but that really isn't the proof of the superiority of maths courses, they're really good at forming monkeys and sociopaths.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
frazzle
Profile Joined June 2012
United States468 Posts
October 29 2015 00:18 GMT
#48924
On October 29 2015 09:07 notesfromunderground wrote:
If you took my class when I actually got to assign the amount of work that I thought was appropriate, I would have you reduced to tears. O-chem ain't got shit on me.

When I went from Calc and Chem to Kant for a semester, this hit hard. Don't underestimate how hard it is to read, let alone understand the writings of Kant in one semester of college.

STEM majors love to dismiss this shit, but I challenge them to get through a semester on logical positivism and symbolic logic going from Freud on through Kripke. That shit will wipe you out.
notesfromunderground
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
188 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:20:33
October 29 2015 00:20 GMT
#48925
I think you mean Frege

(but that sounds like my kinda logic, Freud to Kripke...)
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
October 29 2015 00:21 GMT
#48926
What is your greatest weakness? Why, thank you for the question. I suppose it must be that I am too awesome, just like this country.
frazzle
Profile Joined June 2012
United States468 Posts
October 29 2015 00:21 GMT
#48927
On October 29 2015 09:20 notesfromunderground wrote:
I think you mean Frege

(but that sounds like my kinda logic, Freud to Kripke...)

LOL, woops. Had too many beers it seems.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
October 29 2015 00:23 GMT
#48928
On October 29 2015 09:18 frazzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2015 09:07 notesfromunderground wrote:
If you took my class when I actually got to assign the amount of work that I thought was appropriate, I would have you reduced to tears. O-chem ain't got shit on me.

When I went from Calc and Chem to Kant for a semester, this hit hard. Don't underestimate how hard it is to read, let alone understand the writings of Kant in one semester of college.

STEM majors love to dismiss this shit, but I challenge them to get through a semester on logical positivism and symbolic logic going from Freud on through Kripke. That shit will wipe you out.

Reading algebraic geometry horror books and physics course are probably the only reason I got something out of Kant though, great preparation and motivation.
The more I teach, the more I think our system is bullshitty to the core, and I don't think the differences between France and the US are of much importance :/
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:24:13
October 29 2015 00:23 GMT
#48929
Was that "I'll be the guy who will drive you home" supposed to be a joke

Also if Christie thinks Bernie will raise our taxes to 90% he's crazy
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
October 29 2015 00:25 GMT
#48930
"Is this a comic book Presidency, Mr. Trump?"

Dah fuck?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 29 2015 00:26 GMT
#48931
I wish I could vote against the people who failed to answer the question, but it's not the primary I vote in (I think)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:30:48
October 29 2015 00:26 GMT
#48932
Does Trump know when the Great Wall of China was built and how effective it has been historically? Serious question.

Also holy cow he sounds whiny tonight

Carson if you get rid of the loopholes the deficit gets WORSE, you understand that right?

Meanwhile Kasich (Cruz? I remember) is trying to make enemies so his name gets used more.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 29 2015 00:28 GMT
#48933
Carson proving his usual inability to actually understand the math properly.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:31:15
October 29 2015 00:30 GMT
#48934
Skipped everything I missed so I could say TELL EM KASICH!

roflmao

Anyone think the republican party is going to hear this?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:32:35
October 29 2015 00:31 GMT
#48935
Kasich really wants Democrats to love him huh.

Trump responding with insults of course.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
October 29 2015 00:33 GMT
#48936
God this is like watching a bunch of monkeys scream and throw shit at each other.
LiquidDota Staff
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 29 2015 00:34 GMT
#48937
Poor Jeb Bush.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:36:58
October 29 2015 00:35 GMT
#48938
I'm sure Carson talking and acting slow and calmly is great for a brain surgeon, but it makes him seem like he's had massive head trauma.

Did she just call people retarded?
LiquidDota Staff
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-29 00:37:30
October 29 2015 00:36 GMT
#48939
I would be a bigger fan of their method of leveling the playing field if it didn't involve regressive taxation like flat taxes.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 29 2015 00:37 GMT
#48940
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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