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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 29 2015 06:07 Velr wrote:
Its actually funny how conservatives/libertarians see the AVERAGE forum on the internet as extremly liberal... Someone should take the time and show them all the "Breitbarts" and stuff like that for the left. The ones that look as strange to "normal" people as the stuff they themselves like to link on the other side of the political spectrum.
Its the internet, where people claim to be liberal and progressive, but a huge fan of Trump and will be voting for him because he will save America. It is the true place where you can be whatever you want to be, facts and reality be damned.
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On October 29 2015 05:09 Plansix wrote:
I can’t decide if I care about this thing or think people are idiots because satellites and the internet exist. If the government really wants to take photos of me, they got all the options.
The problem with satellites is that they are quite high up in space and not always where you would like them to be. The closer you are to something, the better the images you can take.
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MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — A federal judge on Wednesday ordered Alabama to restore Medicaid funding to Planned Parenthood, money the state tried to cut off in the wake of undercover videos shot by abortion opponents.
U.S District Judge Myron Thompson issued an order that temporarily bars Alabama from cutting off Medicaid contracts with the group's clinics in Alabama. Planned Parenthood Southeast and a patient filed suit in August, days after Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley announced he was ending the Medicaid agreements with the two clinics.
"Today's ruling is a victory for the women who rely on Planned Parenthood for quality, compassionate affordable health care," said Staci Fox, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Southeast. "It's outrageous that Governor Bentley is trying to take care away from women and families in our communities who need it the most."
In his 66-page opinion, Thompson said the state did not identify a legal reason to cut off funding to Medicaid and that the action likely violated a requirement of the federal Medicaid Act that prevents states from barring family planning providers for reasons unrelated to quality of care.
Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas and Utah have all moved to block Medicaid funds to Planned Parenthood, triggering a series of court fights. Republican governors cited secretly recorded videos, shot by abortion opponents, which showed Planned Parenthood workers coolly discussing fetal tissue and fees for donating the tissue to researchers.
Alabama's letter to Planned Parenthood did not give a reason for the termination of the provider agreement. However, Bentley cited the videos in statements he gave about the decision.
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Lindsey Graham makes me laugh. There is literally no question he can't turn into a speech on national security.
"Do you prefer Chocolate or Vanilla?"
"You know what? If we don't have great national security, ISIS will make it so all ice cream trucks are a potential car bomb. We will lose our ability to choose between these great flavors. Terrorism."
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 29 2015 05:59 notesfromunderground wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 21:56 oneofthem wrote:
obviously the existence of 'free' media that influence elections is not an argument against reining in campaign financing, but when you really get down to it, the so called Main Stream Media and for that matter the Party system is still decent at filtering out pure lunacy. like it or not there are a great number of loonies on either left and right in this country and yet advocates of the ideal money free public financed campaign system (assuming no official corruption, which means less gating power for govt and thus more or less free entry system of ideas) tend to imagine a well ordered public sphere of ideas as a result.
I think the loonie centrists are the most terrifying of all of them. I do not feel at all made safer by the "moderating influence" of mainstream electoral politics. That's what scares me the most.
i typed out a big post about pretty dire changes needed but it got eaten. suffice to say the status quo is pretty shit but any solution has to be based on reality informed understanding of the policy and systems involved. we've seen plenty of policy interactions that while with good intent produced bad results.
the left needs to distinguish between bad policy+rent seeking stuff vs people being productive and creating value in the global economy, which can produce outsized rewards. you don't want to just say rich = bad, but identifying good rich from bad rich. one critical area the left is uniquely positioned to push for is to counter the self reinforcing effect of inequality in the education and achievement of the next generation. there are a bunch of good empirics informed ideas (e.g. chetty) that seem better than education politics atm.
the bigger general picture is that although political process surely needs reform and is a contributing factor to ossifying economy, the main generator of discontent for most americans is just secular economic trends and the aftermath of the financial crisis. the solution to that is to restart growth rather than redistribution. it's at these times that leadership that recognizes the importance of getting the policy right is most valuable.
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I don't believe that what we are experiencing is a "secular economic trend" but I'm not sure arguing about it would be productive. I think your notion of fixing things by "restarting growth" is a denialist fantasy.
I'm to the point where I would rather blow things up than let the radical centrist washington consensus types continue to run us off a cliff. If we don't get Bernie I'm going to vote for Trump.
The problem is, I've just known too many rich people to believe in the category of "good rich."  Dispossess them all and let God sort em out.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
given a general goal like 'better life for most people' it's just fundamental to generate more growth rather than rely on redistribution, especially when we have a large portion of the populace not being very productive atm. but sure, tackling monopoly power and having better labor rights is part of the picture, but main focus should be fostering an environment for growth.
the secular trend i'm pointing to is basically globalization + automation. it's an environment with more inequality and relatively low on quality jobs.
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On October 29 2015 07:21 oneofthem wrote:
the main generator of discontent for most americans is just secular economic trends and the aftermath of the financial crisis. the solution to that is to restart growth rather than redistribution. it's at these times that leadership that recognizes the importance of getting the policy right is most valuable.
Isn't one of the most salient secular economic trends the growing disparity of wealth? How does simply increasing growth address that? BTW, I have never come across "secular" in this context. Thank you sir for the trip down google lane :D
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On October 29 2015 07:50 oneofthem wrote:
given a general goal like 'better life for most people' it's just fundamental to generate more growth rather than rely on redistribution, especially when we have a large portion of the populace not being very productive atm.
That's just a sort of dogma though. I think we already have more than enough material wealth. We already are well over the ecological cliff - you can't grow your way out of this crisis.
Of course, as a wise man once said, "To be a productive worker is not a stroke of luck - but a misfortune."
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 29 2015 07:52 frazzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 07:21 oneofthem wrote:
the main generator of discontent for most americans is just secular economic trends and the aftermath of the financial crisis. the solution to that is to restart growth rather than redistribution. it's at these times that leadership that recognizes the importance of getting the policy right is most valuable. Isn't one of the most salient secular economic trends the growing disparity of wealth? How does simply increasing growth address that? BTW, I have never come across "secular" in this context. Thank you sir for the trip down google lane :D
inequality has many causes and if we are talking about how the bottom is doing rather than the top, then growth can help people get more jobs and better jobs. the growth program i have in mind isn't tax cuts mind you, but stuff like better integration of education with industry and lowering barrier to entry to markets that are oligarchic due to high startup cost. can also be government infrastructure projects open to private bidding.
bernie sanders has a proposal that basically calls for lower college cost, but there's also a bit of a glut with college degrees. clearly the problem is with matching the education with the demand, a problem caused in part by shifting skill demand of the modern economy, a secular trend.
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A BA is just 2015's version of a high school diploma. There's a "glut" because it's being conceived of in the wrong way. You wouldn't say that we are currently experiencing a "glut" of high school diplomas. The problem is not a "glut" of degrees it's that there aren't any fucking jobs
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 29 2015 08:03 notesfromunderground wrote:
A BA is just 2015's version of a high school diploma. There's a "glut" because it's being conceived of in the wrong way. You wouldn't say that we are currently experiencing a "glut" of high school diplomas. The problem is not a "glut" of degrees it's that there aren't any fucking jobs
a lot of technical fields do have job opportunities for bachelors in the right field. so the glut with the BAs may just be that they don't have the right skills for the market.
but sure, the lack of job opportunities is the main point with growth. you need to foster more viable enterprise that compete with each other to create those jobs.
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I don't think we're going to have anything besides jobless recoveries from here on out. I don't believe that it will be possible to create jobs by "fostering growth."
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On October 29 2015 08:05 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 08:03 notesfromunderground wrote:
A BA is just 2015's version of a high school diploma. There's a "glut" because it's being conceived of in the wrong way. You wouldn't say that we are currently experiencing a "glut" of high school diplomas. The problem is not a "glut" of degrees it's that there aren't any fucking jobs a lot of technical fields do have job opportunities for bachelors in the right field. so the glut with the BAs may just be that they don't have the right skills for the market. but sure, the lack of job opportunities is the main point with growth. you need to foster more viable enterprise that compete with each other to create those jobs.
Name any point in the history man, or any location, that has had a better climate for business than right now. Credit is cheaper than ever. Communication technologies are cheaper than ever. Wages are staying low. Workers are plentiful. Unions are a joke. International and national contracts are enforced in private courts without needing lawyers. Globalization means your supply chain can some from anywhere. The Dollar's dominance means you can connect with any country as required. Commodities are even cheap. For proof, see the stock market and corporate profits and the rise of the ultra billionaire class.
Growth is low because people can't afford what they produce (the great moderation of the Reagan era until now was fueled by private sector credit growth that covered the gap between wages earned and spending). Business doesn't need to be made more comfortable than it is. The consumer needs more money to buy more of what he produces. In this environment redistribution can help (whereas in the past when wages were rising it wouldn't have such great effects).
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On October 29 2015 07:59 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 07:52 frazzle wrote:On October 29 2015 07:21 oneofthem wrote:
the main generator of discontent for most americans is just secular economic trends and the aftermath of the financial crisis. the solution to that is to restart growth rather than redistribution. it's at these times that leadership that recognizes the importance of getting the policy right is most valuable. Isn't one of the most salient secular economic trends the growing disparity of wealth? How does simply increasing growth address that? BTW, I have never come across "secular" in this context. Thank you sir for the trip down google lane :D inequality has many causes and if we are talking about how the bottom is doing rather than the top, then growth can help people get more jobs and better jobs. the growth program i have in mind isn't tax cuts mind you, but stuff like better integration of education with industry and lowering barrier to entry to markets that are oligarchic due to high startup cost. can also be government infrastructure projects open to private bidding. bernie sanders has a proposal that basically calls for lower college cost, but there's also a bit of a glut with college degrees. clearly the problem is with matching the education with the demand, a problem caused in part by shifting skill demand of the modern economy, a secular trend.
notesfromtheunderground is, I think, suggesting that we have reached a point where automation has become so sophisticated that it is now consuming job openings faster than they can be produced through a transfer of labor to new fields of labor. Perhaps with a smidge of "There are no new frontiers" thrown in. There is obviously a problem, a Malthusian blindness to innovation problem with making a statement like this. You could be overlooking the next great field of innovation where the jobs are plentiful. You risk being a Luddite of sorts. On the other hand, he could be right. Simply relying on growing your way out of such economic disparities carries with it its own assumptions, almost quasi-religious.
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On October 29 2015 08:20 frazzle wrote:
"There are no new frontiers" thrown in.
Wait, I have an idea.. maybe we can throw a bunch of money at a space program and fix things that way!!! Missiles, missiles, and bigger missiles, that's what we need. That'll get the economy humming again. Let's start a war!
"I will begin with a basic fact: The living organism, in a situation determined by the play of energy on the surface of the globe, ordinarily receives more energy than is necessary for maintaining life; the excess energy (wealth) can be used for the growth of a system (e.g., an organism); if the system can no longer grow, or if the excess cannot be completely absorbed in its growth, it must necessarily be lost without profit; it must be spent, willingly or not, gloriously or catastrophically." (Bataille)
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Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) said at Wednesday's GOP undercard debate he would "absolutely" bring his state's no-taxes-at-all-costs budget approach to the federal government, even after moderator John Harwood pointed out it led to Louisiana's $1.6 billion deficit.
"When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state legislature faced a $1.6 billion budget gap and the Republican State Treasurer called one of your approaches to that problem 'Nonsense on a stick,'" Harwood said. "Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did for the Louisiana budget?"
"Absolutely, John," Jindal said, before bragging about the 30,000 state jobs that had been cut under his tenure. He went on to claim that his budget policies lead to economic growth and job creation.
"We've reduced the size of government, that's what exactly we need to do in D.C. In D.C., the Republicans slow the growth rate, they claim victory -- that's not enough," Jindal said. He went on to decry the $18 trillion of debt that he suggested is causing a stagnant economy.
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On October 29 2015 08:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) said at Wednesday's GOP undercard debate he would "absolutely" bring his state's no-taxes-at-all-costs budget approach to the federal government, even after moderator John Harwood pointed out it led to Louisiana's $1.6 billion deficit.
"When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state legislature faced a $1.6 billion budget gap and the Republican State Treasurer called one of your approaches to that problem 'Nonsense on a stick,'" Harwood said. "Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did for the Louisiana budget?"
"Absolutely, John," Jindal said, before bragging about the 30,000 state jobs that had been cut under his tenure. He went on to claim that his budget policies lead to economic growth and job creation.
"We've reduced the size of government, that's what exactly we need to do in D.C. In D.C., the Republicans slow the growth rate, they claim victory -- that's not enough," Jindal said. He went on to decry the $18 trillion of debt that he suggested is causing a stagnant economy. Source
Are you. I dont.. How does...
How is he a governor and not inside a mental institution.
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I wonder if the Rhodes Foundation wants to take away his Rhodes Scholarship. He makes the program look bad. Maybe I should apply and say "hey I'm from Louisiana and I'm not a nutjob". To be fair, even Louisiana knows he sucks-- he's in a deeply conservative and managed to get down to a 31% approval rating. That takes some political genius. Or idiocy. Not sure.
Also all college degrees aren't created equal. I know that a B.S. in engineering from MIT is worth more than my degree-- that's fine. On the other hand, I know my BBA and my Biology BS are worth more than a BA in Art History or something.*
*I'm defining value here as earning power due to applicable technical skills, prestige or whatever. I love humanities the way Donald Trump loves Mexicans. Kidding. See, I made a joke/ comparison!
It is 7:30 and I am still at work. I am sad that I will be missing the debate.
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EPT
