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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 07 2013 22:05 ControlMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 16:50 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 15:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 07 2013 15:00 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:59 farvacola wrote:On May 07 2013 14:57 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Even more alarming, only 15% believe 'Humans evolved, but God had no part in the process'... Even more alarming is that you think that that is alarming. Even more alarming is that you think its alarming that I think that is alarming. Apolitical belief in religious teachings has very rarely if ever correlated with a society in decline or a lack of progress. So I don't see what the big deal is except religion is the bogeyman. This might have been the case historically when most societies were not ruled by representative governments... but religious extremists are now capable of voting. The attempts by the Christian Right to destroy the separation of church and state pretty much speak for themselves. State religion is bad for both state and religion. I wish other christians would get that.
Not sure it's bad for religion. In a place like France, where religion and public life are extremely strictly separated, religion is extremely weak and a purely private matter (which, in my opinion, is a great thing. I have nothing against spirituality, but from my experience, institutionalized religion has nothing to do with spirituality.)
Religion in state affaires is also always good for conservative forces since the social and historical role of religion is to keep up traditions as stable as possible and put a massive break to anything that would undermine social order and hierarchy. It's always easier to stand up against gay marriage with biggot christian arguments than with any kind of rational reasoning...
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On May 07 2013 14:57 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Even more alarming, only 15% believe 'Humans evolved, but God had no part in the process'...
Well this is a bit weird, i dont hold it for impossible that humans have been genetically engineerd by aliens (not saying i do believe this but i definatly do not rule out this option) and quiet a few people on this website have a similar opinnion i think, if you then just replace god by external force/aliens then suddenly it is not that weird maybe.
Human evolution has made an incredsible leap (the missing link) for wich normal evolution theory still not has a reasonable explanation beside that we still need to find that link.
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liberalism should be banned
User was warned for this post
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United States43808 Posts
On May 07 2013 16:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Now now, people aren't stupid just because they don't share the same religion as you. Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 15:09 aksfjh wrote:Stop it. It's too late to be talking like this! Changing the subject. The Democratic-controlled Senate voted 69 to 27 to back the measure, which pits brick-and-mortar stores like Wal-Mart Stores Inc and cash-hungry state governments against such Web retailers as eBay Inc and Republicans wary of new tax measures.
"Call me a conservative, but I believe the right approach to tax fairness is to reduce rates — not force higher rates onto others," said Tom Graves, a House Republican from Georgia.
House Speaker John Boehner plans to send the bill to the House Judiciary Committee, a senior Republican aide said. That will mean hearings ahead. The Senate uncharacteristically bypassed this step.
Judiciary Committee Chairman Robert Goodlatte, a Republican, has reservations about the legislation, including its complexity and potential impact on small businesses, a spokeswoman said.
Goodlatte has yet to schedule any hearings on it, she said.
Backers of the measure include major traditional retailers Wal-Mart and Best Buy Co Inc, as well as e-tailing giant Amazon.com Inc, which wants to simplify its U.S. state sales tax payments.
Opponents include many other online merchants such as eBay, Overstock.com Inc and anti-tax activist Grover Norquist. Lawmakers from states without sales taxes - like Montana, Oregon and New Hampshire - largely oppose the measure.
States that charge sales tax have largely been unable to require e-tailers to collect it from purchasers unless the e-tailer had a physical presence in the state. Otherwise, consumers are supposed to pay the tax, but very few do.
Some states have made separate arrangements with Amazon on the issue, while others have not.
The bill would let states require out-of-state retailers to collect sales tax on purchases made over the Internet, even if the e-tailer has no physical presence in the purchaser's state.
The bill would allow states to do this but not require them to do so. It would also exempt merchants with online annual out-of-state sales of $1 million or less. SourcePersonally, I already have to pay sales tax on most of this stuff, living in Texas and all. I'm sure people from California are in the same boat. Should definitely be taxed. The small business exemptions may need to be beefed up until the logistics get easier.
Religion doesn't change facts. Science cannot prove beyond all doubt that there is no God and therefore belief in a God isn't stupid for that reason but young earth creationism is the glorification of ignorance, turning irrationality into a virtue. Having faith doesn't make you stupid but bringing that faith into the realm of science and then defying irrefutable evidence does.
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the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music
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Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 16:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Now now, people aren't stupid just because they don't share the same religion as you. They're stupid if they use fairy tales of dudes floating in clouds to conclude that the Universe and all life in it were created 10,000 years ago in 144 hours. The only difference between believing in unicorns and Young Earth creationism is an argumentum ad populum.
Ahh, yes. Hate and intolerance. How novel.
On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music
I blame hippies for "The Dance of Birth". Not sure about that other stuff.
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On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music
Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ?
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On May 07 2013 15:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 15:00 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:59 farvacola wrote:On May 07 2013 14:57 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Even more alarming, only 15% believe 'Humans evolved, but God had no part in the process'... Even more alarming is that you think that that is alarming. Even more alarming is that you think its alarming that I think that is alarming. Apolitical belief in religious teachings has very rarely if ever correlated with a society in decline or a lack of progress. So I don't see what the big deal is except religion is the bogeyman.
apolitical my ass. i might be talking out of said ass, but i thought it was a political matter in certain parts of the us (curriculum f.ex).
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On May 07 2013 22:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:05 ControlMonkey wrote:On May 07 2013 16:50 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 15:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 07 2013 15:00 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:59 farvacola wrote:On May 07 2013 14:57 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Even more alarming, only 15% believe 'Humans evolved, but God had no part in the process'... Even more alarming is that you think that that is alarming. Even more alarming is that you think its alarming that I think that is alarming. Apolitical belief in religious teachings has very rarely if ever correlated with a society in decline or a lack of progress. So I don't see what the big deal is except religion is the bogeyman. This might have been the case historically when most societies were not ruled by representative governments... but religious extremists are now capable of voting. The attempts by the Christian Right to destroy the separation of church and state pretty much speak for themselves. State religion is bad for both state and religion. I wish other christians would get that. Not sure it's bad for religion. In a place like France, where religion and public life are extremely strictly separated, religion is extremely weak and a purely private matter (which, in my opinion, is a great thing. I have nothing against spirituality, but from my experience, institutionalized religion has nothing to do with spirituality.) Religion in state affaires is also always good for conservative forces since the social and historical role of religion is to keep up traditions as stable as possible and put a massive break to anything that would undermine social order and hierarchy. It's always easier to stand up against gay marriage with biggot christian arguments than with any kind of rational reasoning...
I guess I feel that religion (well, I guess I mean christianity) is not about reinforcing social traditions. Christians should be comfortable with being counter-cultural.
IMO, christianity as the state religion leads to legalism, which is the opposite of what christianity is about.
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On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ?
We are indeed in 2013, you'd be surprised how many people actually believe that you need a religion to have morals.
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On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ? at least back then people had principles and the common belief of morally right and wrong when religion was a fundamental staple of life...
just to set a few examples : now a 14 year old girl can be legally slutty , get contraceptives without a parental consent , get abortions + get abortions without parental consent etc. etc.
i can turn the TV on and witness over a dozen channels at any given time featuring rappers talking about selling drugs +raping women+murdering , women stripping , acting like $2 tricks , being bastards (literally and figuratively) making bastards and generally degrading society as a whole
you think this current generation is bad? just wait when the ones inspired by lil wayne nicki minaj and obama take charge...
you can argue on and on about this and that in regards to causes and effects , but its undeniable that it all stemmed from the amoral and deprived sycophants that is basically the liberal party aka left wing socialistic nutcase hippies and sometimes communists like mr. obama and his merry band of cultists he presides over ( he is a communist , anyone who looks into his past will discover his marxist political origins)
but is conservatism also morally corrupt? yes and no - some facets of it can be just as bad and possibly worse if allowed , but currently it is nowhere near as bad as what the liberalists stand for
edit: why was i warned for saying liberals should be banned? i've seen much worse posted on this thread and no such warning given...
User was temp banned for the unsourced claim that Obama is a communist.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 08 2013 00:14 DHD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ? at least back then people had principles and the common belief of morally right and wrong when religion was a fundamental staple of life... just to set a few examples : now a 14 year old girl can be legally slutty , get contraceptives without a parental consent , get abortions + get abortions without parental consent etc. etc. i can turn the TV on and witness over a dozen channels at any given time featuring rappers talking about selling drugs +raping women+murdering , women stripping , acting like $2 tricks , being bastards (literally and figuratively) making bastards and generally degrading society as a whole you think this current generation is bad? just wait when the ones inspired by lil wayne nicki minaj and obama take charge... you can argue on and on about this and that in regards to causes and effects , but its undeniable that it all stemmed from the amoral and deprived sycophants that is basically the liberal party aka left wing socialistic nutcase hippies and sometimes communists like mr. obama and his merry band of cultists he presides over ( he is a communist , anyone who looks into his past will discover his marxist political origins)but is conservatism also morally corrupt? yes and no - some facets of it can be just as bad and possibly worse if allowed , but currently it is nowhere near as bad as what the liberalists stand for edit: why was i warned for saying liberals should be banned? i've seen much worse posted on this thread and no such warning given...
Saying things unfortunately doesn't magically make those things true. Just thought I'd let you know <3
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At least we liberals have punctuation, grammar, and capitalization. Although, the increased clarity of our arguments and ideas seems to be lost on a large portion of the population that spends their day trying to count how many TV channels play rap music at all hours of the day. Somebody who gives up counting after reaching, at most, 3 and rounds it to 12 likely doesn't care about intellectual honestly and dissecting ideas to find common grounds.
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On May 08 2013 00:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 00:14 DHD wrote:On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ? at least back then people had principles and the common belief of morally right and wrong when religion was a fundamental staple of life... just to set a few examples : now a 14 year old girl can be legally slutty , get contraceptives without a parental consent , get abortions + get abortions without parental consent etc. etc. i can turn the TV on and witness over a dozen channels at any given time featuring rappers talking about selling drugs +raping women+murdering , women stripping , acting like $2 tricks , being bastards (literally and figuratively) making bastards and generally degrading society as a whole you think this current generation is bad? just wait when the ones inspired by lil wayne nicki minaj and obama take charge... you can argue on and on about this and that in regards to causes and effects , but its undeniable that it all stemmed from the amoral and deprived sycophants that is basically the liberal party aka left wing socialistic nutcase hippies and sometimes communists like mr. obama and his merry band of cultists he presides over ( he is a communist , anyone who looks into his past will discover his marxist political origins)but is conservatism also morally corrupt? yes and no - some facets of it can be just as bad and possibly worse if allowed , but currently it is nowhere near as bad as what the liberalists stand for edit: why was i warned for saying liberals should be banned? i've seen much worse posted on this thread and no such warning given... Saying things unfortunately doesn't magically make those things true. Just thought I'd let you know <3 read a book or two about the such said things , ignorance isn't excusable - if you knew anything about the text you bolded....i wouldn't need to reply to you , just so you know <3
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United States43808 Posts
On May 08 2013 00:14 DHD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ? at least back then people had principles and the common belief of morally right and wrong when religion was a fundamental staple of life... just to set a few examples : now a 14 year old girl can be legally slutty , get contraceptives without a parental consent , get abortions + get abortions without parental consent etc. etc. i can turn the TV on and witness over a dozen channels at any given time featuring rappers talking about selling drugs +raping women+murdering , women stripping , acting like $2 tricks , being bastards (literally and figuratively) making bastards and generally degrading society as a whole you think this current generation is bad? just wait when the ones inspired by lil wayne nicki minaj and obama take charge... you can argue on and on about this and that in regards to causes and effects , but its undeniable that it all stemmed from the amoral and deprived sycophants that is basically the liberal party aka left wing socialistic nutcase hippies and sometimes communists like mr. obama and his merry band of cultists he presides over ( he is a communist , anyone who looks into his past will discover his marxist political origins) but is conservatism also morally corrupt? yes and no - some facets of it can be just as bad and possibly worse if allowed , but currently it is nowhere near as bad as what the liberalists stand for edit: why was i warned for saying liberals should be banned? i've seen much worse posted on this thread and no such warning given... User was temp banned for the unsourced claim that Obama is a communist.
I find it odd that violence in media is being used as an argument for why modern times are immoral compared to the 18th Century when we had actual violence in the streets. I mean yes, there was less violence on television two centuries ago but violence and death were still a much greater and much more real part of the average persons life back then.
I also am somewhat confused about the bit where the argument was supposed to be in the statement "a 14 year old girl can legally be slutty". Slutty is, in this case, not explained and could amount to letting 14 year olds dress how they like or be around boys who are not members of their direct family. This could amount to a criticism of the lack of sharia law in the United States, something which, incidentally, was not present in the 18th Century. The singling out of girls is curious in this moral crusade, rather than, for example, calling for an end to pre-marital sex. Instead the point is centred around how the law does not force female sexuality to conform with your specific desires whereas most sane people who really, really care about this issue would instead blame society, poor role models and bad parenting. I'm not sure if you know how law is supposed to work but legally forcing a specific group to act sexually in a given way is generally frowned upon.
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On May 08 2013 00:06 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:18 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music Are we back at the beginning of the XVIIIth century, or have I read something implying atheists are immorals ? We are indeed in 2013, you'd be surprised how many people actually believe that you need a religion to have morals.
The privilege of living in a pretty atheist country I guess.
That being said, the place of religiousity is a pretty big debate in France, just in completely different terms than in the US I suppose.
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On May 07 2013 22:55 DHD wrote:
the absence of religion equates to an absence of morality. many of the problems afflicting america today stems from a lack of morals brought forth by the counter culture movement of the 60s and 70s.
in short : blame the hippies
...
and rap music
... Morality much outlasts modern religion, noting 'the gold rule' of do onto others as you'd like done upon yourself dating back to Greek Philosophers.
Asserting massive claims with no evidence does not make a valid argument for morality and there is nothing written in the 'good books' with relation to morality that a 1st century archaic barbarian couldn't have (if literate) written or said. There is no thinking person today that, with their morality, could not rewrite the ten commandments or passages in any of the holy scriptures and make those books more 'morale'. Morality, friend, is the subjective view of the objective, it is what we deem proper at a current time on the spectrum of human experience; that is to say, whether religion is there or not, our moralities will shift based on the views of the people, whether those people are heard thousands of years ago or today.
TLDR; fictional stories may provide as much morality as real experience, it's all subjective to how we view it.
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I feel like the pervasive element in the church of "young earth" ascientific nonsense is simple a combination of shitty literalist interpretation of the bible and some intent to distance themselves from "mainstream science". I still to this day don't see where evolution conflicts with my faith or why people accept being taught ignorance for the sake of ignorance.
They don't really deserve the hate they get I don't think. There will always be a strong reactionary element in response to any strong progressive element. Its just a function of an expressive society.
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United States43808 Posts
On May 08 2013 01:24 Sermokala wrote:
I feel like the pervasive element in the church of "young earth" ascientific nonsense is simple a combination of shitty literalist interpretation of the bible and some intent to distance themselves from "mainstream science". I still to this day don't see where evolution conflicts with my faith or why people accept being taught ignorance for the sake of ignorance.
They don't really deserve the hate they get I don't think. There will always be a strong reactionary element in response to any strong progressive element. Its just a function of an expressive society.
I disagree, they absolutely deserve the hate they get. You don't see this shit with gravity. People don't turn around and go "well yes but the thing is my faith tells me that things fall up and God guides me and it's religion". There really is no difference between "things fall down because a force pulls them towards the mass of the earth" and "things have lower amounts of c-14 because it decays at a known rate over time" and yet people think it's fine to contest one of them. If carbon decay was visible to the naked eye nobody would claim the world was 8000 years old.
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On May 07 2013 22:15 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 14:57 kmillz wrote:On May 07 2013 14:44 sunprince wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 07 2013 05:11 Paljas wrote:
wtf 6% believe in Unicorns? Unless they also asked little kids, this is absolutly mind boggling.
In my opinion, this is also partly due to the education system not being centralized by the state.
I really think a uniform education system across a whole nation is superior to a regional system. I doubt 6% really believe in unicorns. Believing in unicorns isn't really that much stupider (if at all) than believing in Young Earth creationism. Considering that 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth creationism, I don't think 6% believing in unicorns is much of a stretch. Even more alarming, only 15% believe 'Humans evolved, but God had no part in the process'... Well this is a bit weird, i dont hold it for impossible that humans have been genetically engineerd by aliens (not saying i do believe this but i definatly do not rule out this option) and quiet a few people on this website have a similar opinnion i think, if you then just replace god by external force/aliens then suddenly it is not that weird maybe. Human evolution has made an incredsible leap (the missing link) for wich normal evolution theory still not has a reasonable explanation beside that we still need to find that link.
wtf, replacing god with aliens/external force is still extremly weird/stupid.
And the missing link is one of the weaker arguments vs evolution.
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