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On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 21 2015 09:51 wei2coolman wrote:
TBF to Harvard, they're a top notch school that consistently pumps out some of the most successful graduates. Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached. The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula."
This is essentially what it is. The UC system just uses a pretty basic point system in regards to their admissions, works pretty well imo.
Also, it's important to keep in mind admissions also have to be limited based on size of department, so there are obvious cases where perhaps a kid who might not necessarily be good enough for admission in the Engineering department, would be good enough for Mathematics department, but because he didn't apply for Mathematics department he was not accepted into the school, while someone who was weaker than him in admission might have gotten into the Mathematics department, since he chose the Mathematics department in his application.
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On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 21 2015 09:51 wei2coolman wrote:
TBF to Harvard, they're a top notch school that consistently pumps out some of the most successful graduates. Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached. The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula."
Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons.
Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids.
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You mean creating well rounded adults that society needs more of? why yes, how terrible that these parents are developing a variety of skills for the kids! think of the children!
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On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 21 2015 09:51 wei2coolman wrote:
TBF to Harvard, they're a top notch school that consistently pumps out some of the most successful graduates. Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached. The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids.
That reminds me of that whole clusterfuck of debate when that "Tiger Parenting" thing gained notoriety from that one book on parenting.
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On May 21 2015 11:51 wei2coolman wrote:
You mean creating well rounded adults that society needs more of? why yes, how terrible that these parents are developing a variety of skills for the kids! think of the children!
"developing a variety of skills for the kids"
You mean dictating what a kid should become before they've even hit puberty?
On May 21 2015 11:54 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached.
The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. That reminds me of that whole clusterfuck of debate when that "Tiger Parenting" thing gained notoriety from that one book on parenting.
Of course, that whole "Tiger Parenting" thing was based on a parody book written by someone who used to be an overbearing Chinese mother until her daughter started rebelling against it.
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On May 21 2015 11:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:51 wei2coolman wrote:
You mean creating well rounded adults that society needs more of? why yes, how terrible that these parents are developing a variety of skills for the kids! think of the children! "developing a variety of skills for the kids" You mean dictating what a kid should become before they've even hit puberty? Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:54 Slaughter wrote:On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities.
It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. That reminds me of that whole clusterfuck of debate when that "Tiger Parenting" thing gained notoriety from that one book on parenting. Of course, that whole "Tiger Parenting" thing was based on a parody book written by someone who used to be an overbearing Chinese mother until her daughter started rebelling against it.
That book was a parody? I thought that was her explaining her method of parenting (and defending it) and advocating its use over the laissez faire type parenting style.
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On May 21 2015 12:04 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:51 wei2coolman wrote:
You mean creating well rounded adults that society needs more of? why yes, how terrible that these parents are developing a variety of skills for the kids! think of the children! "developing a variety of skills for the kids" You mean dictating what a kid should become before they've even hit puberty? On May 21 2015 11:54 Slaughter wrote:On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. That reminds me of that whole clusterfuck of debate when that "Tiger Parenting" thing gained notoriety from that one book on parenting. Of course, that whole "Tiger Parenting" thing was based on a parody book written by someone who used to be an overbearing Chinese mother until her daughter started rebelling against it. That book was a parody? I thought that was her explaining her method of parenting (and defending it) and advocating its use over the laissez faire type parenting style.
Yeah the media turned that book into what they wanted and I have no idea how many people read or understood it.
Jokes aside about A+s and gold medals (much of my book is self-parody), in the end for me it’s not about grades or Ivy League schools. It’s about believing in your child more than anyone else – more than they believe in themselves – and helping them realize their potential, whatever it may be.
Source
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On May 21 2015 12:04 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:51 wei2coolman wrote:
You mean creating well rounded adults that society needs more of? why yes, how terrible that these parents are developing a variety of skills for the kids! think of the children! "developing a variety of skills for the kids" You mean dictating what a kid should become before they've even hit puberty? On May 21 2015 11:54 Slaughter wrote:On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. That reminds me of that whole clusterfuck of debate when that "Tiger Parenting" thing gained notoriety from that one book on parenting. Of course, that whole "Tiger Parenting" thing was based on a parody book written by someone who used to be an overbearing Chinese mother until her daughter started rebelling against it. That book was a parody? I thought that was her explaining her method of parenting (and defending it) and advocating its use over the laissez faire type parenting style.
Well, parody might be the wrong word. But it's self-deprecating and auto-biographical, and lot of it is hyperbolic to make it sound worse.
It's something for strict parents to read, and question just how they're treating their kids. Problem is that a lot of parents in the West aren't strict enough for the story to applicable, and instead think about the things their own children could accomplish if they started being like that.
Edit: Only for the ones glamorizing it, of course. There were a lot of people that thought she was a monster as well, thinking it was 100% serious.
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On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 21 2015 09:51 wei2coolman wrote:
TBF to Harvard, they're a top notch school that consistently pumps out some of the most successful graduates. Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached. The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids.
Yes, parents do that because they know colleges look for that. Its not the parents fault that admissions officers want volunteer work and a life story. I will say, some of it is ridiculous, I got into every Big 10 school I applied to based on Grades/Scores/Sports (come on, you gotta do sports), so I assume it must be for the Ivy League schools where admissions officers get more 4.0/1600s than they could admit.
However, I don't think this is being done "poorly" I think its just a bad idea, implemented for the wrong reasons. Its not bad because Sports/Working aren't good things to do, its bad because the admissions offices don't seem to understand why they are good, which is because if you have a 4.0 + Sports + a Part time job it means you spent fewer hours getting the 4.0, which means you are smarter and better at time management than someone who didn't do those things and just studied a lot for the 4.0. This is not a more well rounded person, its a better person.
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Yea I didn't read it but I remember the massive amount of articles it spawned with widely varying opinions on it that morphed into some stupid US vs Asian countries debate revolving around parenting.
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The ultimate human quality scale.
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On May 21 2015 12:19 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yes but by denying better performing students for legacies (or minorities for that matter) it indicates that it's not (at least entirely) based on their academic performance. I don't think GWB was as stupid as people made him out to be but he obviously didn't get his success based primarily on his ability. Like I said it's a social club with a university attached.
The idea that the exclusivity of Ivy-leagues is academically based has always been at least partially bull, it's just now being easily exposed by the Asian students with undeniable statistics. To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities. It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. Yes, parents do that because they know colleges look for that. Its not the parents fault that admissions officers want volunteer work and a life story. I will say, some of it is ridiculous, I got into every Big 10 school I applied to based on Grades/Scores/Sports (come on, you gotta do sports), so I assume it must be for the Ivy League schools where admissions officers get more 4.0/1600s than they could admit. However, I don't think this is being done "poorly" I think its just a bad idea, implemented for the wrong reasons. Its not bad because Sports/Working aren't good things to do, its bad because the admissions offices don't seem to understand why they are good, which is because if you have a 4.0 + Sports + a Part time job it means you spent fewer hours getting the 4.0, which means you are smarter and better at time management than someone who didn't do those things and just studied a lot for the 4.0. This is not a more well rounded person, its a better person.
It is the parent's fault if they're focused on moulding their children into the perfect college applicant
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On May 21 2015 12:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 12:19 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
To be fair, the problem with many Asian student applicants is that their academic abilities really are just academic abilities.
It's not just the Asians that present this problem, of course, but it is something that's very prominent in Asian education culture, the concept that your success is entirely based on academic scores and nothing else. Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. Yes, parents do that because they know colleges look for that. Its not the parents fault that admissions officers want volunteer work and a life story. I will say, some of it is ridiculous, I got into every Big 10 school I applied to based on Grades/Scores/Sports (come on, you gotta do sports), so I assume it must be for the Ivy League schools where admissions officers get more 4.0/1600s than they could admit. However, I don't think this is being done "poorly" I think its just a bad idea, implemented for the wrong reasons. Its not bad because Sports/Working aren't good things to do, its bad because the admissions offices don't seem to understand why they are good, which is because if you have a 4.0 + Sports + a Part time job it means you spent fewer hours getting the 4.0, which means you are smarter and better at time management than someone who didn't do those things and just studied a lot for the 4.0. This is not a more well rounded person, its a better person. It is the parent's fault if they're focused on moulding their children into the perfect college applicant
Here is where we are going to go a bit circular, but. Its actually the admissions office's fault for, then, not valuing what makes a person a good person or good student or good whatever. A certain subset of parents obviously believe (correctly for the most part) that admission to better universities will help their children do better in life, so they try to maximize that chance.
Perhaps you don't think that playing the tuba and volunteering at a hospital makes a person a good person, but that is still the admissions fault for valuing those things over getting the World First kill on Muru, or having a really sweet kickflip (do people still skateboard?), but such is life.
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On May 21 2015 12:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 12:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 12:19 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On May 21 2015 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 21 2015 10:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 21 2015 10:23 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
Oh, how interesting, so your saying an academic institution shouldn't base acceptance on academic scores? Lmao Well first of all, I disagree with the premise that Asian applicants are notorious for not offering anything except exceptional academics on college applications. I've heard quite a stereotype or two about playing the violin/ piano/ flute/ any other instrument exceptionally well too, and I'm sure they do just as much charity work as any other group of people o.O But to address your point, universities aren't only academic institutions, nor do they pretend to be. They rant and rave about how you should be a well-rounded applicant, because they're also looking for role models in other spheres of influence (organizations, athletics, research, etc.), not *only* getting a 4.0 in your major. Playing an instrument is very much an education prestige thing as well, for the adults. At least when it comes to a certain type of parent, and a certain type of student. Want to be clear that I'm not talking about Asian applicants in general, but the ones with the impeccable grades aiming for all those high-paying career choices. The whole Asian dad thing might be a funny stereotypical joke, but it's very much based on a real thing. On May 21 2015 10:37 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 10:35 Slaughter wrote:
To be fair, academic markers like SAT and GPA have never been the only thing universities look at. Judging from conversations with teachers I know their students (this is elementary level) who spend time in both Asian and American educational systems apparently parents and kids prefer the latter. Sure they are way advanced in knowledge but memorization and regurgitation seem to be the main emphasis and little development of creativity and critical thinking is done. That and apparently these kids actually feel engaged and have fun in American schools. Granted this is a just from conversations with like 2 teachers who both teach at private schools, but that seems to be the kind of attitude people have towards the Asian systems: great for creating zombies who know a fuck ton but have shit actual thinking skills, skills being way to narrow for adapting to the real world, and are prone to burnout. Lmao the amount of racism in this post is hilarious. Some how if a white guy playd guitar he's creative, if an asian plays piano/violin he's a zombie. Kind of, yeah... There's obviously a lot of Asians that will take up an instrument because they love music. But there's also quite a few that will take up the piano, violin, etc. and have nothing but classical music drilled into them, because there's prestige in it. And quite often it's the parents that make them take it up early, and they continue it because the parents expect it of them. Assuming that premise is true, how do admissions office account for this, other than a straight up bias on denying Asians into the school ? That's why you end up writing long essays for your University application, talk up your extra-curriculars, etc. And if you have 50 applications from Chinese kids that are all basically "I've got good grades, I'm a hard worker, and I play piano at a Grade 10 RCM level", then you've got some people you can sort through. Obviously not foolproof or 100% accurate, but as I said, there's a reason why University's are becoming more focused on finding well-rounded students over the ones with perfect grades.And if you want a self-deprecating anecdote about Asians and music: Me and my brother played piano. Most of my Chinese friends played piano. Almost all of the children of Chinese family friends played piano. Number of us that kept playing after high school? Big fat zero. And none of us even have the really hardcore Asian parents. Most of us were raised more Canadian than Chinese, too. Based on what has been periodically exposed in the higher ed admissions process, the reasons for that seem to boil down to "how can we implement affirmative action without it being too obvious in some sort of formula." Well, like anything, it can be done poorly and for all the wrong reasons. Hell, there's even been the explosion of parenting that forces their kids to be "well-rounded", giving them full schedules of sports, lessons, etc. well before they've even had chances to be kids. Yes, parents do that because they know colleges look for that. Its not the parents fault that admissions officers want volunteer work and a life story. I will say, some of it is ridiculous, I got into every Big 10 school I applied to based on Grades/Scores/Sports (come on, you gotta do sports), so I assume it must be for the Ivy League schools where admissions officers get more 4.0/1600s than they could admit. However, I don't think this is being done "poorly" I think its just a bad idea, implemented for the wrong reasons. Its not bad because Sports/Working aren't good things to do, its bad because the admissions offices don't seem to understand why they are good, which is because if you have a 4.0 + Sports + a Part time job it means you spent fewer hours getting the 4.0, which means you are smarter and better at time management than someone who didn't do those things and just studied a lot for the 4.0. This is not a more well rounded person, its a better person. It is the parent's fault if they're focused on moulding their children into the perfect college applicant Here is where we are going to go a bit circular, but. Its actually the admissions office's fault for, then, not valuing what makes a person a good person or good student or good whatever. A certain subset of parents obviously believe (correctly for the most part) that admission to better universities will help their children do better in life, so they try to maximize that chance. Perhaps you don't think that playing the tuba and volunteering at a hospital makes a person a good person, but that is still the admissions fault for valuing those things over getting the World First kill on Muru, or having a really sweet kickflip (do people still skateboard?), but such is life.
I think you're missing my whole point.
I think playing the tuba is just fine, and volunteering at a hospital is a great experience. I think there's a lot of things that kids can do while they're still kids, even making some really bad mistakes, as long as they don't end up too far gone.
But there is no metric to measure if someone has matured by experiencing their youth, so admissions offices ask for someone to talk up their childhood to get a brief picture of it all.
The problem is that parents see these criteria, and rather than understand the spirit of it (that kids should focus on their grades, but also have the chance to grow as people), they see it as a cold-hard checklist, and circle it right back around to the same problem that this was trying to avoid: college applicants that had their entire lives dictated by parent's expectations.
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Yea, but if colleges actually wanted that they would eliminate all of the "checklist" and give you points for sports and drinking.
Edit.
Because most of the things they "value" on applications are actually poor personal decisions for 90%+ of people. IMO they are just ways for universities to force people to prostrate themselves before them even if they aren't in the university yet. And also to impose social values that they like (but mostly have no real value).
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On May 21 2015 13:26 cLutZ wrote:
Yea, but if colleges actually wanted that they would eliminate all of the "checklist" and give you points for sports and drinking.
Well, removing all the romanticism from it, what colleges want is people who have passions that they will involve themselves in, and accomplish things that the college can point to and say "look at the kind of people we cater to, look at what you can do if you can come here". Because a college that only has numbers and graduation rates is dull for marketing.
And while that's rather predatory from colleges, I think it's also beneficial for the students not to have their lives narrowed to goalposts that they have to meet (grades, good college, good degree, well-paying job, good retirement).
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For those that care; Rand Paul's Patriot Act Filibuster.
Shame that this has to happen to get rid of this non-sense rather than it being thought of crazy to have this (Patriot Act/NSA/etc.) in the first place.
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On May 21 2015 11:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +WASHINGTON -- The push by President Barack Obama and Republicans for gigantic new trade deals meets the definition of insanity, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) charged in a Senate floor speech Wednesday.
The president and Republican leaders are pushing hard to pass legislation known as Trade Promotion Authority that allows a White House to fast-track trade deals through Congress with no amendments, no procedural hurdles or filibusters, and a simple up-or-down vote in limited amount of time.
That fast-track authority likely would make it possible for the Obama administration to sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership with a dozen Pacific Rim nations, and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with Europe. Together, those pacts would cover about 80 percent of the global economy.
The much-maligned North American Free Trade Agreement of the 1990s covered about 10 percent of the word's trade, and Reid said that deal and many since have all been disastrous for American workers, costing millions of jobs.
"It causes huge job losses," Reid said. "As Einstein said, you keep doing the same thing over and over again, and you expect a different result, that's the definition of insanity."
"We can look at these trade bills over the years -- every one of them without exception causes to American workers job losses. Millions of job losses," Reid added. "But yet they're going to try the same thing again and hope for a different result. That's insanity."
Obama has tried to counter such complaints by pointing to some of the benefits of free trade deals, insisting they do create jobs, and that his will be the "most progressive" trade pact in history. He's also accused people like Reid and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) of "making stuff up." Source
wait Obama and McConnell together wat I need someone to explain this
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I'm getting this so far:
Obama: This will create American jobs.
Republicans: Do it, do it, do it, do it.
Warren, Sanders: This will destroy American jobs.
Democrats: What they said.
NYT comments: Why is this being written by the world's wealthiest corporations and without involvement from anybody on the labor side of things?
Why? I dunno. I need someone to explain it to too.
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Fox News and Facebook will host the first Republican primary debate of the 2016 presidential race on Aug. 6 in Ohio, the network announced Wednesday
The format will allow Fox News viewers and Facebook users to share video questions via the social media site, some of which will be used for the debate, the network said.
Fox News' Executive Vice President of News Editorial Michael Clemente also announced the criteria for candidates:
They must meet all constitutional requirements; must announce and register a formal campaign; must file all required paperwork with the Federal Election Commission; and must place in the top 10 in an average of the five most recent, recognized national polls leading up to Aug. 4.
Those who do not place in the top 10 will be provided additional coverage and air time, Clemente said in a statement.
The debate will be presented live from 9-11 p.m. ET, on Fox News Channel, with additional coverage on Fox News Radio, Fox News Mobile and FoxNews.com.
Source
I can't wait...
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EPT
