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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion.
Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread.
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The U.S. will provide an additional $75 million in non-lethal equipment to Ukraine including counter-mortar radar, drones, radios and medical equipment, a US official said Wednesday. The supplies will be funded by the European Reassurance Initiative, the official explained.
The president has also approved sending 20 armored Humvees and up to 200 unarmored Humvees under a separate authority.
source
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On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread.
I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right.
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WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told Republicans Wednesday morning that unless they remove an anti-abortion provision from a bill on human trafficking, the popular legislation is doomed.
"Today, the Senate is doing a good deed. We have a chance to address human trafficking," said Reid in remarks on the Senate floor. "In this legislation that is meant as an outline to stop child trafficking and human trafficking generally, there is a provision in this legislation dealing with abortion. It has nothing, nothing to do with this."
"If my friend, the Republican leader, is so in tune with getting this passed, take that legislation out of the bill. Otherwise, it will not pass," Reid added, addressing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who spoke in favor of the measure Wednesday morning.
The Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act, introduced by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), would establish a fund to help victims by using fees charged to traffickers. The bill, a new version of a measure originally introduced in the previous Congress, has bipartisan support and unanimously passed out of the Judiciary Committee last month.
But Democrats learned this week that the bill contains Hyde Amendment language -- a recurring rider that often gets attached to other legislation, and that restricts federal funding for abortion and other health care services.
Republicans argue that the rider has been in there all along, and that senators should have read the bill. Democrats counter that when Cornyn introduced the current version of the bill, he did not make clear all of the ways in which it differed from the earlier version. Rather, Democrats say, Cornyn pitched it as simply a reintroduction of the measure from the previous Congress, which did not have the abortion rider.
"A list was sent to certain members saying, 'Here are the changes from last year.' This provision was not listed among them," said Judiciary Committee member Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) Tuesday.
Source
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On March 12 2015 02:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told Republicans Wednesday morning that unless they remove an anti-abortion provision from a bill on human trafficking, the popular legislation is doomed.
"Today, the Senate is doing a good deed. We have a chance to address human trafficking," said Reid in remarks on the Senate floor. "In this legislation that is meant as an outline to stop child trafficking and human trafficking generally, there is a provision in this legislation dealing with abortion. It has nothing, nothing to do with this."
"If my friend, the Republican leader, is so in tune with getting this passed, take that legislation out of the bill. Otherwise, it will not pass," Reid added, addressing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who spoke in favor of the measure Wednesday morning.
The Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act, introduced by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), would establish a fund to help victims by using fees charged to traffickers. The bill, a new version of a measure originally introduced in the previous Congress, has bipartisan support and unanimously passed out of the Judiciary Committee last month.
But Democrats learned this week that the bill contains Hyde Amendment language -- a recurring rider that often gets attached to other legislation, and that restricts federal funding for abortion and other health care services.
Republicans argue that the rider has been in there all along, and that senators should have read the bill. Democrats counter that when Cornyn introduced the current version of the bill, he did not make clear all of the ways in which it differed from the earlier version. Rather, Democrats say, Cornyn pitched it as simply a reintroduction of the measure from the previous Congress, which did not have the abortion rider.
"A list was sent to certain members saying, 'Here are the changes from last year.' This provision was not listed among them," said Judiciary Committee member Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) Tuesday. Source
Ah the age old bait and switch that will allow them to say Democrats are not against human trafficking. These people need to be reading the legislation in front of them before letting it get this far down the pipeline. It's been 40 years, I wonder when people will give up on this shit.
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On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right.
Who's conservative in this thread? I mean, I only come by every once in a while but it seems to me that it's more of a difference between who's further left and who's middle left as apposed to left vs. right.
I'm independent myself. I dislike the 2 party system and feel like it's too rigid. I like to say that I'm independent because I like to take the best from both sides. I really do believe that both sides have some amazing points, but both sides also have some insane points.
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On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right.
Well if not believing in spirit healing or that a snowball in February disproves climate change already makes somebody a lefty then I guess that says more about the political right than anybody else.
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On March 12 2015 02:46 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right. Who's conservative in this thread? I mean, I only come by every once in a while but it seems to me that it's more of a difference between who's further left and who's middle left as apposed to left vs. right. I'm independent myself. I dislike the 2 party system and feel like it's too rigid. I like to say that I'm independent because I like to take the best from both sides. I really do believe that both sides have some amazing points, but both sides also have some insane points.
As of the past few months, Jonny, xDaunt, Coverpunch, Millitron, Introvert, and the recent addition Hannahbelle post fairly consistently and are all right of center generally. Honestly, this thread gets a pretty even representation from both sides on most issues, though the conservative angle definitely has more of a libertarian bent than a Buckley Republican one, and the liberal side definitely trends more towards radicalism as opposed to an establishment Democrat agenda.
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On March 12 2015 02:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 02:46 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right. Who's conservative in this thread? I mean, I only come by every once in a while but it seems to me that it's more of a difference between who's further left and who's middle left as apposed to left vs. right. I'm independent myself. I dislike the 2 party system and feel like it's too rigid. I like to say that I'm independent because I like to take the best from both sides. I really do believe that both sides have some amazing points, but both sides also have some insane points. As of the past few months, Jonny, xDaunt, Coverpunch, Millitron, Introvert, and the recent addition Hannahbelle post fairly consistently and are all right of center generally. Honestly, this thread gets a pretty even representation from both sides on most issues, though the conservative angle definitely has more of a libertarian bent than a Buckley Republican one, and the liberal side definitely trends more towards radicalism as opposed to an establishment Democrat agenda.
Don't forget Danglars!
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On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right.
GH comes pretty close, but his tone is generally more reasonable.
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On March 12 2015 03:04 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 02:54 farvacola wrote:On March 12 2015 02:46 Ryuhou)aS( wrote:On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:[quote] Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right. Who's conservative in this thread? I mean, I only come by every once in a while but it seems to me that it's more of a difference between who's further left and who's middle left as apposed to left vs. right. I'm independent myself. I dislike the 2 party system and feel like it's too rigid. I like to say that I'm independent because I like to take the best from both sides. I really do believe that both sides have some amazing points, but both sides also have some insane points. As of the past few months, Jonny, xDaunt, Coverpunch, Millitron, Introvert, and the recent addition Hannahbelle post fairly consistently and are all right of center generally. Honestly, this thread gets a pretty even representation from both sides on most issues, though the conservative angle definitely has more of a libertarian bent than a Buckley Republican one, and the liberal side definitely trends more towards radicalism as opposed to an establishment Democrat agenda. Don't forget Danglars!
I seriously can't believe I didn't mention our friend from The Count of Monte Cristo. He's as consistent as it gets, particularly when it comes to posting things I disagree with :D
On March 12 2015 03:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:On March 12 2015 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On March 12 2015 01:07 calgar wrote:On March 12 2015 00:45 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 16:06 Sandvich wrote:On March 11 2015 15:50 jellyjello wrote:On March 11 2015 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Republicans, under fire for a letter signed by 47 senators to the leadership of Iran, said Tuesday that complaints about violating foreign policy convention should be leveled not at them, but at President Barack Obama.
GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday being pressed on why Senate party leadership went around the White House with an open letter warning Iran that any nuclear agreement may be undercut in the future by Congress or Obama's successor. Several Republicans sought to distance themselves from the letter, saying that while they may not agree with the direction of nuclear talks with Iran, it was the purview of the president to conduct them.
But those who support the letter -- even some who didn't add their names -- deflected the blame. If it weren't for Obama's failure to consult lawmakers about the negotiations, or his threatened veto of a proposed bill to give Congress the final vote on a nuclear agreement, senators wouldn't have had to speak out in the first place, they argued.
“I think that, no doubt, the fact that the president, you know, issued a veto threat on a very common-sense piece of legislation, probably evoked, you know, a good deal of passion,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Huffington Post Tuesday. Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.
“No, no, no,” Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton’s letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.
Corker's comments were more diplomatic than those offered by other Republicans on Tuesday. But they nevertheless reflected a defensiveness within the GOP, which is taking heat for the letter not just from Democrats, but from leading foreign policy analysts as well. Source Typical huffingtonpost journalism. Typical ambiguous attack on the huffington post. Care to clarify what you think is wrong? On March 11 2015 13:03 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 11:34 hannahbelle wrote:On March 11 2015 11:00 oneofthem wrote:
congress hasn't been involved in the quite lengthy negotiation process. it's backseat driving apart from the choice of politics. Not backseat driving. Advise and consent. to do that they should have been involved in the process, or it's akin to trying to drive without seeing the road. Yes, they should have been involved. And who is to blame for their lack of involvement? You know, any experienced leader knows if you are involved in an important task, you should build consensus during every step of the project within your team. Obama has failed to do that. He has engaged in these negotiations with Iran, over a very controversial and longstanding issue, with zero involvement from the organization that is responsible for advising and consenting on foreign treaties. In short, Obama wants to do whatever he wants to do, and throws a fit like a petulant child, when he can't give a fancy speech and get everyone to drink the kool-aid. You can disagree with the Republicans actions, but you have to acknowledge they have legitimate grievances here. It is absolutely the purview of the executive branch to conduct foreign diplomacy, but it is the Constitutional obligation of the Senate to advise and consent on these negotiations. The president has the responsibility to allow the Senate to perform its Constitutional duties. But then again, he has shown only disdain for the Constitution, so I wouldn't expect him to change now. Your rhetoric is so polarized and biased that you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. The frequent condescension doesn't help at all. You automatically assume the best possible intentions for Republican actions and the worst possible intentions for Obama. Putting all of the blame on him in the greater context of obstructionism is short-sighted and leads to people dismissing your opinion. Posts like this are hilarious to me, because hannahbelle is a mirror reflection of most of the liberal posters in this thread. I don't know, while the left outnumbers the right in this thread I don't think there are very many lefties as left as hannahbelle is to the right. GH comes pretty close, but his tone is generally more reasonable.
Igne and a number of European posters are way more radical than GH; GH just happens to be one of the few black posters on a very white and asian website, so his perspective sticks out because he almost certainly has had very personal experiences with social and political phenomena that most of us just don't have.
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I consider myself left centric but I lurk this thread more than post in it. I am economically conservative and generally prefer small government, but have never voted Republican because reasons (abortion, gay marriage, legalization, climate change, vaccines, etc. etc.) It's too bad those trivial issues cloud the picture so often.
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The large number of left-wing propaganda articles posted in this thread don't help its image.
Or, given all the leftists here, maybe it does.
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My mother who is a Democrat, brother who is a Republican, and I (Independent) were having this discussion. In it we came to the most basic of conclusions that Democrats generally believe that humans are inherently bad and that's why they want more government and more regulations in order to keep people from hurting each other, and Republicans generally believe that humans are inherently good and that's why they believe in small government and great personal freedom.
While this is a way oversimplification, and mostly a false generalization, I still found it interesting enough to agree to the general idea.
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You heard it here first. Factual news is left-wing propaganda!
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On March 11 2015 06:00 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:51 oneofthem wrote:On March 11 2015 03:48 xDaunt wrote:On March 11 2015 03:37 oneofthem wrote:
daunt you realize iran is under the threat of israeli nukes much more than vice versa. That's fine with me. Israel is an ally. Iran is not. I'm also much more confident in Israel being rationale with nuclear weapons than Iran. you are, but same cannot be said for iran. iran complaining about israel's nuclear weapons is indeed a legitimate complaint given the strength of ultranationalists in israel. I'm not trying to be fair. The bottom line is that Iran is a geopolitical enemy of the US. It is in our interest to keep the boot on their throats UNLESS we are going to gain something meaningful in return for lifting it. And just to be clear, goading Iran into fighting ISIS isn't enough. Iran is going to do that anyway for obvious reasons germane to their national interests.
Negotiating a deal like the Obama administration is doing is both the best way to keep Iran as far away from a nuclear weapon as possible and the best way to stabilize the region by achieving a balance of power between regional powers. Both are in the national interest of the U.S.
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On March 12 2015 03:54 Acrofales wrote:
You heard it here first. Factual news is left-wing propaganda!
Don't be a jerk. Both sides have their own propaganda media machines and both sides claim them as factual.
edit: and I have yet to find a completely unbiased source.
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On March 12 2015 03:43 ZasZ. wrote:
I consider myself left centric but I lurk this thread more than post in it. I am economically conservative and generally prefer small government, but have never voted Republican because reasons (abortion, gay marriage, legalization, climate change, vaccines, etc. etc.) It's too bad those trivial issues cloud the picture so often.
I definitely lean left but I don't just criticize the left (guns), I also agree with the right sometimes (the libertarian wing usually). You guys have no idea how sad it is that I am the sole black representative in US Politics here. Not sure Hanna agrees with Obama/democrats on anything?
One problem I have with Republicans as a party is that they say they care about the Constitution, but what have they said/done about the police departments and local officials that have been shown to have shit all over the Constitution?
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On March 12 2015 03:54 Introvert wrote:
The large number of left-wing propaganda articles posted in this thread don't help its image.
Or, given all the leftists here, maybe it does.
The problem is that y'all never actually engage in an analysis in order to substantiate the claim of propaganda. Sure, there are huffpo articles that take linguistic liberties with things here and there, but in many cases, the general angle of the story is one of fact. When it seems like conservatives literally label every single piece of news that isn't from a very narrow selection of sources "left-wing propaganda," that's when sayings pertaining to the liberal bias of reality start getting formed.
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On March 12 2015 02:24 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 02:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told Republicans Wednesday morning that unless they remove an anti-abortion provision from a bill on human trafficking, the popular legislation is doomed.
"Today, the Senate is doing a good deed. We have a chance to address human trafficking," said Reid in remarks on the Senate floor. "In this legislation that is meant as an outline to stop child trafficking and human trafficking generally, there is a provision in this legislation dealing with abortion. It has nothing, nothing to do with this."
"If my friend, the Republican leader, is so in tune with getting this passed, take that legislation out of the bill. Otherwise, it will not pass," Reid added, addressing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who spoke in favor of the measure Wednesday morning.
The Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act, introduced by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), would establish a fund to help victims by using fees charged to traffickers. The bill, a new version of a measure originally introduced in the previous Congress, has bipartisan support and unanimously passed out of the Judiciary Committee last month.
But Democrats learned this week that the bill contains Hyde Amendment language -- a recurring rider that often gets attached to other legislation, and that restricts federal funding for abortion and other health care services.
Republicans argue that the rider has been in there all along, and that senators should have read the bill. Democrats counter that when Cornyn introduced the current version of the bill, he did not make clear all of the ways in which it differed from the earlier version. Rather, Democrats say, Cornyn pitched it as simply a reintroduction of the measure from the previous Congress, which did not have the abortion rider.
"A list was sent to certain members saying, 'Here are the changes from last year.' This provision was not listed among them," said Judiciary Committee member Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) Tuesday. Source Ah the age old bait and switch that will allow them to say Democrats are not against human trafficking. These people need to be reading the legislation in front of them before letting it get this far down the pipeline. It's been 40 years, I wonder when people will give up on this shit.
Ofc they need to read the bills but its also a horrible and sadly age old custom in America to attach random BS to bills that have no business being included.
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EPT
