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On March 06 2015 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 08:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
they could also use the recruiting tool of "get attacked by local residents, defend yourself, get villified by the media and sued by the family of the attacker" plus low salary and meager benefits because we're a poor city. added benefit of not getting paid at all because we are about to go bankrupt from class action civil lawsuits. i for one will line up for such excellent job opportunities.
i think the thread needs to bring itself back to reality. You mean where we pretend this wouldn't be the only thing running on right wing outlets if it was happening to white republicans? Like the shit storm republicans raised over PAC's not getting certain tax status. Because obviously not being able to skirt around paying taxes is a way bigger deal than not being able to walk your own streets without fear of having your rights trampled on. Give me a break! All the shit that has come out and we're already back to "black people don't want to be police" and "we don't really know why?" Seriously... it's not hard to figure out. You might want to start by asking retired black officers. I'm amazed they even got 2 black people to participate in their sanctioned thuggary. i thought we discussed this. you take something simple and blow it way the fuck out of proportion and start talking about them "republicans." you are the liberal version of the tea party. and i just told you why nobody, including blacks, wants to work in ferguson. its not a we dont know why, its an everybody fucking knows why nobody wants to work in this shitberg. also, the guy above just posted an article talking about why recruiting minorities is difficult. they dont want to work in shitberg either. Pretending that there wouldn't be calls to move mountains, if that's what it took, to right the injustice if it was a struggling white community being abused at the hands of the police let alone black police is delusional. You guys telling me having bosses that trade racist emails co-workers who openly share racist comments and incidents and being forced to rob/persecute your own community isn't a large part of it? I am just awestruck at this shit. and where did i tell you that? or by "you guys" were you referring to the "republicans" again. i don't think anyone with a second choice would want to work in this shitberg, white or black. it wasn't a desirable location before the recent events, and it isn't getting better. the idea that you can just fire the PD and replace it with do-gooders is so fucking laughable that i laugh, because its laughable. and of course there would be calls for blood if a white community was persecuted, just like there are calls for blood because of ferguson. but when you ask them to reach for their wallets, see how silent the room becomes, in both cases. You and others are suggesting that the reason black people don't want to work for a racist department that abuses the people they police is that it's a shitty town (among other bs reasons). It's so ridiculous I can't believe it's actually being said.
let me make this clear for you: nobody (as in not blacks, not whites, not martians, not romanians, not brazilians, not pegasuseses, not draconians, not off-whites) wants to work in fucking ferguson if they have a choice. yeah, blacks probably don't want to work there because of the racists as well (although i find this amusing since there are black police officers affectionately referred to as Uncle Tom by the loving populace), but who the fucks cares, its irrelevant to my point that nobody is going to step up to the plate to work there if you removed the current racist, martian, probably homophobic, definitely not having another choice in careers PD. nobody.
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On March 06 2015 09:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 08:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
they could also use the recruiting tool of "get attacked by local residents, defend yourself, get villified by the media and sued by the family of the attacker" plus low salary and meager benefits because we're a poor city. added benefit of not getting paid at all because we are about to go bankrupt from class action civil lawsuits. i for one will line up for such excellent job opportunities.
i think the thread needs to bring itself back to reality. You mean where we pretend this wouldn't be the only thing running on right wing outlets if it was happening to white republicans? Like the shit storm republicans raised over PAC's not getting certain tax status. Because obviously not being able to skirt around paying taxes is a way bigger deal than not being able to walk your own streets without fear of having your rights trampled on. Give me a break! All the shit that has come out and we're already back to "black people don't want to be police" and "we don't really know why?" Seriously... it's not hard to figure out. You might want to start by asking retired black officers. I'm amazed they even got 2 black people to participate in their sanctioned thuggary. i thought we discussed this. you take something simple and blow it way the fuck out of proportion and start talking about them "republicans." you are the liberal version of the tea party. and i just told you why nobody, including blacks, wants to work in ferguson. its not a we dont know why, its an everybody fucking knows why nobody wants to work in this shitberg. also, the guy above just posted an article talking about why recruiting minorities is difficult. they dont want to work in shitberg either. Pretending that there wouldn't be calls to move mountains, if that's what it took, to right the injustice if it was a struggling white community being abused at the hands of the police let alone black police is delusional. You guys telling me having bosses that trade racist emails co-workers who openly share racist comments and incidents and being forced to rob/persecute your own community isn't a large part of it? I am just awestruck at this shit. and where did i tell you that? or by "you guys" were you referring to the "republicans" again. i don't think anyone with a second choice would want to work in this shitberg, white or black. it wasn't a desirable location before the recent events, and it isn't getting better. the idea that you can just fire the PD and replace it with do-gooders is so fucking laughable that i laugh, because its laughable. and of course there would be calls for blood if a white community was persecuted, just like there are calls for blood because of ferguson. but when you ask them to reach for their wallets, see how silent the room becomes, in both cases. You and others are suggesting that the reason black people don't want to work for a racist department that abuses the people they police is that it's a shitty town (among other bs reasons). It's so ridiculous I can't believe it's actually being said. People don't want to be cops at the best of times and when you have a place like Ferguson it becomes nigh impossible. Your reasoning that some meaningless political words and a disbanding that does nothing would change that is completely devoid of reality. If you think a community that has been systematically discriminated against is going to accept anything other then long term show of action before any change at all is seen then you just have no clue.
No i'm saying they must be done in concert together. You can't just ship in some good cops and say everything is better. People have to go to jail/prison for the crimes they committed, people have to lose their careers, people have to be compensated for the crimes against them, and plenty more. I'm not saying just rhetorically disbanding them is enough, just something of that genus must be expressed both rhetorically and manifest in the members of the communities lives.
One significant reason people don't want to be cops is because they are mostly just paper pushers and bouncers. A significant portion of policing has nothing to do with protecting the community. People who want to be cops want to make a positive difference and we've systematically destroyed that part of the job for many officers. Spending all day writing tickets for going 5-10mph over the limit on the roads so they could make quota to fund their budget is not why most people go through the work of becoming an officer.
Yet that's the kind of stuff they are likely to spend their days doing. Sprinkled with domestic violence cases (where depending on the state) there is virtually no chance it makes things any better for anyone involved.
Less tickets more detective work and both the cops and the communities will be much more inclined to work with/for the police.
Or I guess you could just write it off and say the people of Ferguson are just fucked and have to live under the persecution of the police until they leave or the town itself dissolves. It's what's been happening for decades around the country, so why stop now right?
EDIT: Which seems to be the gist of DaPhreak's argument.
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as I gaze fondly on the green horizon, many a straw man do I see.
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On March 06 2015 10:20 dAPhREAk wrote:
as I gaze fondly on the green horizon, many a straw man do I see.
So I suppose that means were done here then. Color me surprised.
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I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers.
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On March 06 2015 10:48 hunts wrote:
I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers.
Good thing they weren't all out in the streets causing problems then huh?
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On March 06 2015 10:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 10:48 hunts wrote:
I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers. Good thing they weren't all out in the streets causing problems then huh?
A lot were though. And they picked pretty terrible targets, idealogically speaking. If they were disgusted with the police and justice system, they should've torched the police stations, city hall, the court house, etc. But they didn't, they attacked local businesses. Which tells me the people who were the most upset, the rioters and looters, were in it for the free stuff, not because they were upset that their rights had been infringed.
If your goal is defending your rights, what good does burning local businesses do?
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On March 06 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 08:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
they could also use the recruiting tool of "get attacked by local residents, defend yourself, get villified by the media and sued by the family of the attacker" plus low salary and meager benefits because we're a poor city. added benefit of not getting paid at all because we are about to go bankrupt from class action civil lawsuits. i for one will line up for such excellent job opportunities.
i think the thread needs to bring itself back to reality. You mean where we pretend this wouldn't be the only thing running on right wing outlets if it was happening to white republicans? Like the shit storm republicans raised over PAC's not getting certain tax status. Because obviously not being able to skirt around paying taxes is a way bigger deal than not being able to walk your own streets without fear of having your rights trampled on. Give me a break! All the shit that has come out and we're already back to "black people don't want to be police" and "we don't really know why?" Seriously... it's not hard to figure out. You might want to start by asking retired black officers. I'm amazed they even got 2 black people to participate in their sanctioned thuggary. i thought we discussed this. you take something simple and blow it way the fuck out of proportion and start talking about them "republicans." you are the liberal version of the tea party. and i just told you why nobody, including blacks, wants to work in ferguson. its not a we dont know why, its an everybody fucking knows why nobody wants to work in this shitberg. also, the guy above just posted an article talking about why recruiting minorities is difficult. they dont want to work in shitberg either. Pretending that there wouldn't be calls to move mountains, if that's what it took, to right the injustice if it was a struggling white community being abused at the hands of the police let alone black police is delusional. You guys telling me having bosses that trade racist emails co-workers who openly share racist comments and incidents and being forced to rob/persecute your own community isn't a large part of it? I am just awestruck at this shit. and where did i tell you that? or by "you guys" were you referring to the "republicans" again. i don't think anyone with a second choice would want to work in this shitberg, white or black. it wasn't a desirable location before the recent events, and it isn't getting better. the idea that you can just fire the PD and replace it with do-gooders is so fucking laughable that i laugh, because its laughable. and of course there would be calls for blood if a white community was persecuted, just like there are calls for blood because of ferguson. but when you ask them to reach for their wallets, see how silent the room becomes, in both cases. You and others are suggesting that the reason black people don't want to work for a racist department that abuses the people they police is that it's a shitty town (among other bs reasons). It's so ridiculous I can't believe it's actually being said. let me make this clear for you: nobody (as in not blacks, not whites, not martians, not romanians, not brazilians, not pegasuseses, not draconians, not off-whites) wants to work in fucking ferguson if they have a choice. yeah, blacks probably don't want to work there because of the racists as well (although i find this amusing since there are black police officers affectionately referred to as Uncle Tom by the loving populace), but who the fucks cares, its irrelevant to my point that nobody is going to step up to the plate to work there if you removed the current racist, martian, probably homophobic, definitely not having another choice in careers PD. nobody.
What if they live in Ferguson already? Maybe they can hire the entitled poor people who descend into rioting and looting, or who want Walmart to pay living wages into law enforcement. Definitely would be a better career, and at the same time have a shot a making their community better.
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On March 06 2015 11:21 Wolfstan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 09:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 06 2015 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 08:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
they could also use the recruiting tool of "get attacked by local residents, defend yourself, get villified by the media and sued by the family of the attacker" plus low salary and meager benefits because we're a poor city. added benefit of not getting paid at all because we are about to go bankrupt from class action civil lawsuits. i for one will line up for such excellent job opportunities.
i think the thread needs to bring itself back to reality. You mean where we pretend this wouldn't be the only thing running on right wing outlets if it was happening to white republicans? Like the shit storm republicans raised over PAC's not getting certain tax status. Because obviously not being able to skirt around paying taxes is a way bigger deal than not being able to walk your own streets without fear of having your rights trampled on. Give me a break! All the shit that has come out and we're already back to "black people don't want to be police" and "we don't really know why?" Seriously... it's not hard to figure out. You might want to start by asking retired black officers. I'm amazed they even got 2 black people to participate in their sanctioned thuggary. i thought we discussed this. you take something simple and blow it way the fuck out of proportion and start talking about them "republicans." you are the liberal version of the tea party. and i just told you why nobody, including blacks, wants to work in ferguson. its not a we dont know why, its an everybody fucking knows why nobody wants to work in this shitberg. also, the guy above just posted an article talking about why recruiting minorities is difficult. they dont want to work in shitberg either. Pretending that there wouldn't be calls to move mountains, if that's what it took, to right the injustice if it was a struggling white community being abused at the hands of the police let alone black police is delusional. You guys telling me having bosses that trade racist emails co-workers who openly share racist comments and incidents and being forced to rob/persecute your own community isn't a large part of it? I am just awestruck at this shit. and where did i tell you that? or by "you guys" were you referring to the "republicans" again. i don't think anyone with a second choice would want to work in this shitberg, white or black. it wasn't a desirable location before the recent events, and it isn't getting better. the idea that you can just fire the PD and replace it with do-gooders is so fucking laughable that i laugh, because its laughable. and of course there would be calls for blood if a white community was persecuted, just like there are calls for blood because of ferguson. but when you ask them to reach for their wallets, see how silent the room becomes, in both cases. You and others are suggesting that the reason black people don't want to work for a racist department that abuses the people they police is that it's a shitty town (among other bs reasons). It's so ridiculous I can't believe it's actually being said. let me make this clear for you: nobody (as in not blacks, not whites, not martians, not romanians, not brazilians, not pegasuseses, not draconians, not off-whites) wants to work in fucking ferguson if they have a choice. yeah, blacks probably don't want to work there because of the racists as well (although i find this amusing since there are black police officers affectionately referred to as Uncle Tom by the loving populace), but who the fucks cares, its irrelevant to my point that nobody is going to step up to the plate to work there if you removed the current racist, martian, probably homophobic, definitely not having another choice in careers PD. nobody. What if they live in Ferguson already? Maybe they can hire the entitled poor people who descend into rioting and looting, or who want Walmart to pay living wages into law enforcement. Definitely would be a better career, and at the same time have a shot a making their community better.
i was assuming people wanted to replace the police with competent people, not just anyone. if you dont care about their credentials, i am sure lots of people would join the police department in ferguson. even then, i still think a person who had a choice of working in ferguson or another city as a cop would still choose not to work in ferguson.
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On March 06 2015 11:02 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 10:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 06 2015 10:48 hunts wrote:
I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers. Good thing they weren't all out in the streets causing problems then huh? A lot were though. And they picked pretty terrible targets, idealogically speaking. If they were disgusted with the police and justice system, they should've torched the police stations, city hall, the court house, etc. But they didn't, they attacked local businesses. Which tells me the people who were the most upset, the rioters and looters, were in it for the free stuff, not because they were upset that their rights had been infringed. If your goal is defending your rights, what good does burning local businesses do?
how many is a lot? 50% of the population? 20%? less?
I don't recall it being a large portion of the population; also, in situations like that, there often are (and were in this case) a lot of people coming from outside the community looking for trouble (or looting).
I'm not sure rioters and looters are the most upset, they might just be big assholes, since as you said, they didn't target the offenders.
Really, it's best not use "they" here, since there were several different groups of people out at the time, each with their own set of interests.
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*golfclap*
A BNSF Railway train loaded with crude oil derailed on Thursday afternoon in a rural area south of Galena, Illinois, with two of the tank cars catching fire, according to local officials and the company.
The incident marks the latest in a series of derailments involving trains hauling crude oil, a trend that has put a heightened focus on rail safety.
Local TV published images of dark smoke rising from the area where the incident occurred, and the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency told local WREX.com that initial reports suggested two of the cars were on fire.
The train with 105 loaded cars — 103 of them carrying crude oil — derailed at approximately 1:20 p.m. local time, according to a BNSF statement. The incident occurred on what appears to be a major rail line alongside the Mississippi River that handles as many as 50 oil trains a week, one official said.
BNSF said there were no reported injuries and no evacuations. The railway, a unit of Berkshire Hathaway, said it did not know what had caused the derailment, which occurred about three miles outside Galena, a town of about 3,000 people on the border with Wisconsin.
Eight of the train's cars derailed, six of which had tumbled onto their sides, according to Galena City Administrator Mark Moran. The smoke could be seen as far as Galena, he said. Emergency responders have been called back to Galena as a precaution, and BNSF responders had taken over control of the site.
It was not immediately clear where the train originated or where it was heading. Chicago, which is 160 miles east, is a major rail hub for shipments from both North Dakota and Canada's oil sands.
About 40 to 50 oil trains come through the area each week, Jo Daviess County Emergency Manager Charles Pedersen said. He had earlier said that there was no explosion or fire at the site.
The accident is just the latest involving oil trains in the United States and Canada.
Source
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On March 06 2015 12:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:*golfclap* Show nested quote +A BNSF Railway train loaded with crude oil derailed on Thursday afternoon in a rural area south of Galena, Illinois, with two of the tank cars catching fire, according to local officials and the company.
The incident marks the latest in a series of derailments involving trains hauling crude oil, a trend that has put a heightened focus on rail safety.
Local TV published images of dark smoke rising from the area where the incident occurred, and the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency told local WREX.com that initial reports suggested two of the cars were on fire.
The train with 105 loaded cars — 103 of them carrying crude oil — derailed at approximately 1:20 p.m. local time, according to a BNSF statement. The incident occurred on what appears to be a major rail line alongside the Mississippi River that handles as many as 50 oil trains a week, one official said.
BNSF said there were no reported injuries and no evacuations. The railway, a unit of Berkshire Hathaway, said it did not know what had caused the derailment, which occurred about three miles outside Galena, a town of about 3,000 people on the border with Wisconsin.
Eight of the train's cars derailed, six of which had tumbled onto their sides, according to Galena City Administrator Mark Moran. The smoke could be seen as far as Galena, he said. Emergency responders have been called back to Galena as a precaution, and BNSF responders had taken over control of the site.
It was not immediately clear where the train originated or where it was heading. Chicago, which is 160 miles east, is a major rail hub for shipments from both North Dakota and Canada's oil sands.
About 40 to 50 oil trains come through the area each week, Jo Daviess County Emergency Manager Charles Pedersen said. He had earlier said that there was no explosion or fire at the site.
The accident is just the latest involving oil trains in the United States and Canada. Source
You're glad there was an accident?
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Nope it is just becoming news almost every other week of a Oil train derailing/blowing up etc. And no action being done at all.
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On March 06 2015 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nope it is just becoming news almost every other week of a Oil train derailing/blowing up etc. And no action being done at all.
The rail industry is waiting on new tanker car regulations, and has been for some time now.
There's also this new thing called pipelines...
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On March 06 2015 10:48 hunts wrote:
I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers.
"So quick"
Oh yes. Rioting after spending what was likely years of being abused and oppressed by the very people that they pay taxes to have protect them was such a quick response.
The amount of ignorance in this post is utterly astounding.
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On March 06 2015 12:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 12:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nope it is just becoming news almost every other week of a Oil train derailing/blowing up etc. And no action being done at all. The rail industry is waiting on new tanker car regulations, and has been for some time now. There's also this new thing called pipelines...
Damnit, Jonny, you beat me to it.
Or maybe Stealth's got some deadly pipeline accidents in the stack to link.
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On March 06 2015 13:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 10:48 hunts wrote:
I would have more sympathy for the Ferguson people if they weren't so quick to riot and ruin the businesses, properties, and lives of innocent people, all over a court decision that was cast by a jury of their peers. "So quick" Oh yes. Rioting after spending what was likely years of being abused and oppressed by the very people that they pay taxes to have protect them was such a quick response. The amount of ignorance in this post is utterly astounding.
I'd say the evening of the court decision that found a cop who protected himself from a thief was "so quick."
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I'm trying to figure out why we're talking about nigh-irrelevant oil spills and last year's news (Ferguson) instead of the possible political demise of Hillary.
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On March 06 2015 13:54 xDaunt wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why we're talking about nigh-irrelevant oil spills and last year's news (Ferguson) instead of the possible political demise of Hillary.
Well Ferguson is the opposite of last year's news and Hillary's email is typical political fanfare. Congress on both sides does the same political hack stuff, it's just the beggining of a long attempt from republicans to drive down democratic turnout by making Hillary seem unattractive. Thing is people like me know Hillary isn't our (the larger "Left") ideal candidate but against any republican contender she will easily be the lesser of two evils. Anyone but Jeb/Paul (for the younger folk) and that's an easy choice. If conservatives don't want to choose between Bush and someone to the left of Hillary they should focus on their candidates having a specific plan for moving forward and worry about Hillary's email later.
Right now she is setting you guys up to ride her email all the way to the general only to realize Jeb did the same thing and, while the "law" might not have captured Jeb, any substance to the idea that she did it to hide things will equally apply to Jeb (who will be the republican nominee because he will likely be the only one with a specific plan).
Kind of like Obama and the birth certificate nonsense that helped lose the last two. Except this time the Republican likely won't be able to say they aren't like 'them'. Particularly after the whole republican primary is spent making Jeb seem like Hillary lite. Essentially all the efforts to decrease democrats turnout will end up discouraging as many hardcore conservatives for Bush maybe more.
Admittedly since the turnout for this election may very well be lower than the last two it's the best shot the right probably has. Although record turnout for women may crap all over that plan.
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A popular contraception program in Colorado is receiving criticism from conservative lawmakers who say that the program's use of intrauterine devices, or IUDs, qualify as abortions.
More than 30,000 women in Colorado have gotten a device because of the state program, the Colorado Family Planning Initiative. An IUD normally costs between $500 and several thousand dollars. Through the program women could receive one for free.
This is because the program received a $23 million private grant in 2009 that has covered all its costs until now. To keep going, a group of bipartisan lawmakers are trying to push a bill through the Colorado Senate. But they're running into problems because of restrictions on what the state can and cannot fund.
State health director Larry Wolk says that the program has largely been a success. "Our teen birth rate has dropped 40 percent over the last four years," says Wolk. "The decline in teen births has been accompanied by a 34 percent drop in abortions among teens." A study published in Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health credited the changes to the free contraceptives.
Fewer abortions should mean success for liberals and conservatives alike, right? That's what Republican state representative Don Coram, who's sponsoring the bill, thinks. He says that the program saves state money because it decreases the number of births Medicare covers and lowers the state's enrollment in welfare. "If you're anti-abortion and also a fiscal conservative, I think this is a win-win situation for you," Coram says.
Source
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EPT
