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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy.
And this is based on what exactly?
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On March 08 2013 10:11 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:08 Roe wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! I'm hoping we see more of it. A divided party is much better for the country and our democracy, whichever party that may be. A republican civil war could get them back to a more justice-party-esque platform. I'd be much more comfortable with a party that stands for something than a party of "No."
That's exactly what I'm hoping will happen too.
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On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly?
The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple.
I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections.
Basically that.
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On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that.
Ok well that I don't disagree with, I just don't quite think the fight over the identity of the Republican Party has been decided yet.
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On March 08 2013 10:31 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that. Ok well that I don't disagree with, I just don't quite think the fight over the identity of the Republican Party has been decided yet.
The new generation of Republicans all tend to have a Libertarian bent to them. They're already a strong enough force within the party to be able to publicly go against their senior members without fear of retribution.
I'd say unless something significant occurs, Libertarianism is going to become the new Right.
After all the "conservative" position is to stand still. The "liberal" position is to progress. Hence, Democrats (as the more liberal party) dictate the terms of the relative political spectrum within the country and the Republicans must try to stay within the moving framework at the tail end without accidentally "falling out the back end" of public opinion like they did in the last decade or so.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
:3
Elizabeth Warren on Thursday demanded answers from top banking regulators over the possibility of shuttering financial firms that flout federal anti-money laundering laws or violate international trade sanctions. Referencing the penalties leveled against HSBC after the company was caught being used to funnel billions in drug money, the Massachusetts Democrat questioned regulators about why they did not consider forcing the British bank to shut its doors on U.S. soil. “What does it take?” Warren said. “How many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords? Regulators fined the company $1.9 billion over the laundering, but Warren questioned why no criminal prosecutions were aimed at the company or its employees, saying they were not being held to the same standard as common Americans. “If you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you go to jail. If you’re caught repeatedly, you can go to jail for life,” Warren told regulators during a Senate Banking Committee hearing. “Incidentally, if you launder nearly a billion dollars in drug money, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night.” Officials from the Treasury Department, Federal Reserve and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency hesitated to weigh in on when it was appropriate to shut down financial firms, saying the decision to shutter a bank would follow prosecutions by the Department of Justice. “I’m not going to get into some hypothetical line-drawing exercise,” David Cohen, treasury’s undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, told Warren. Fed Reserve Governor Jerome Powell was more direct: “I’ll tell you exactly when it’s appropriate” to consider pulling a bank’s license, he said. “It’s appropriate when there’s a criminal conviction.” Warren’s attack comes at a touchy time for the Obama administration, following Attorney General Eric Holder’s admission Wednesday that the size of the biggest banks complicates efforts to hit them with criminal prosecutions. “I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if we do prosecute — if we do bring a criminal charge — it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy,” Holder told the Senate Judiciary panel Wednesday. That line of thinking poses a direct challenge to Democrats’ Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform law, which is intended to ensure that the collapse of a single firm does not threaten the economy. And the tensions over “too big to jail” were further inflamed Thursday when Cohen conceded that federal prosecutors had consulted with treasury over the potential economic consequences of going after HSBC. Cohen told the panel that his department declined to provide a summary of the economic impacts because they were impossible to forecast with any certainty. But the fact that the Justice Department even asked the question left lawmakers fuming, as they wondered whether Justice’s question revealed that major banks are too big to jail. Warren’s line of inquiry became a bipartisan chorus, as several other members on her panel took up the grilling when her time ran out. Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) asked regulators how they would explain to the American people why no HSBC officials faced criminal charges and whether they had played any role in Justice’s decision not to prosecute the bank or its officials. And Sen. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) was scathing in his critique of the regulators, sarcastically suggesting to Warren that they collaborate on a bank that dealt solely with money from drug cartels and terrorists. “We’d have nothing to fear from the U.S. government,” he said. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/elizabeth-warren-bust-banks-that-launder-drug-money-88565.html?hp=r6
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<3 Elizabeth Warren 
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On March 08 2013 10:43 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:31 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that. Ok well that I don't disagree with, I just don't quite think the fight over the identity of the Republican Party has been decided yet. The new generation of Republicans all tend to have a Libertarian bent to them. They're already a strong enough force within the party to be able to publicly go against their senior members without fear of retribution. I'd say unless something significant occurs, Libertarianism is going to become the new Right. After all the "conservative" position is to stand still. The "liberal" position is to progress. Hence, Democrats (as the more liberal party) dictate the terms of the relative political spectrum within the country and the Republicans must try to stay within the moving framework at the tail end without accidentally "falling out the back end" of public opinion like they did in the last decade or so.
We see what happens with these new Republicans in the general election. What we have are pockets of people that form their own feedback systems, that don't ever have to deal with other political ideals except through caricatures presented by their own ilk. Thus, the people they elect in primaries and in heavily red districts are often so far removed from the center that it becomes impossible to compromise and make government work with them.
In other words, if the party shifts to "Libertarianism," it will implode.
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On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that.
The Democrats already are becoming the pre-Nixon conservative Republicans, though. It is true that reactionaries are threatening to take over the Republicans, but I doubt they will in the long run, because their ideology is too incompatible with the interests of the rich (unlike the new Democrats).
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On March 08 2013 11:30 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:43 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:31 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that. Ok well that I don't disagree with, I just don't quite think the fight over the identity of the Republican Party has been decided yet. The new generation of Republicans all tend to have a Libertarian bent to them. They're already a strong enough force within the party to be able to publicly go against their senior members without fear of retribution. I'd say unless something significant occurs, Libertarianism is going to become the new Right. After all the "conservative" position is to stand still. The "liberal" position is to progress. Hence, Democrats (as the more liberal party) dictate the terms of the relative political spectrum within the country and the Republicans must try to stay within the moving framework at the tail end without accidentally "falling out the back end" of public opinion like they did in the last decade or so. We see what happens with these new Republicans in the general election. What we have are pockets of people that form their own feedback systems, that don't ever have to deal with other political ideals except through caricatures presented by their own ilk. Thus, the people they elect in primaries and in heavily red districts are often so far removed from the center that it becomes impossible to compromise and make government work with them. In other words, if the party shifts to "Libertarianism," it will implode.
There are many in the Democratic Party who are curious or already convinced of fiscal conservativism. Selling it to them as part of a packaged deal, along with social liberalism, would be far easier than the old model of a more half-assed stance on fiscal issues coupled with that traditional Christian crap that makes Bill Maher's job so much easier than it would be otherwise. They aren't any further right than your average Republican today, taking into account how far left they are on half of the issues. Just remember that they fit much more neatly and coherently on an up-down political spectrum. So no, the party wouldn't "implode".
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On March 08 2013 06:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who served as al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been arrested and detained in Jordan in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), US government sources said.
Initial public confirmation of Suleiman Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
On Thursday, King called the arrest a "very significant victory" in the ongoing fight against al-Qaeda.
King said the capture was confirmed to him by US law enforcement officials.
The sources said Ghaith took part in the September 11, 2001, attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon and had initially been picked up in Turkey.
The Turkish government then deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. Source
Aside from the actual capture, the most important part of this story is that they are planning on putting him in front of a Federal judge in New York. There are some politicians, such as Sen. Graham, who are saying he should be placed in Guantanamo Bay's facility.
How do people feel about this? I guess if Obama can't get the facility closed he can just refuse to put anyone in there anymore.
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Job creation broke out in February, with the economy creating a net 236,000 new jobs as the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent.
Private job creation stood at a robust 246,000, finally indicating that the economy may be ready to escape the tight growth range in which it has been held since the financial crisis.
Service industries led the gains with 73,000 new jobs, while construction added 48,000 and health care provided 32,000. Retail also added 24,000. ...
Link
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On March 09 2013 00:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +Job creation broke out in February, with the economy creating a net 236,000 new jobs as the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent.
Private job creation stood at a robust 246,000, finally indicating that the economy may be ready to escape the tight growth range in which it has been held since the financial crisis.
Service industries led the gains with 73,000 new jobs, while construction added 48,000 and health care provided 32,000. Retail also added 24,000. ... Link
Its so relieving, realizing that if Romney managed to win the election, Republicans would be saying "Look what Romney did in a few months that Obama couldn't do in 4 years! Free market!"
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On March 09 2013 01:51 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Job creation broke out in February, with the economy creating a net 236,000 new jobs as the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent.
Private job creation stood at a robust 246,000, finally indicating that the economy may be ready to escape the tight growth range in which it has been held since the financial crisis.
Service industries led the gains with 73,000 new jobs, while construction added 48,000 and health care provided 32,000. Retail also added 24,000. ... Link Its so relieving, realizing that if Romney managed to win the election, Republicans would be saying "Look what Romney did in a few months that Obama couldn't do in 4 years! Free market!"
Have to disagree with that. I'm pretty sure they'd be saying the same thing everyone is saying now: good, but not good enough.
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On March 09 2013 01:51 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Job creation broke out in February, with the economy creating a net 236,000 new jobs as the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent.
Private job creation stood at a robust 246,000, finally indicating that the economy may be ready to escape the tight growth range in which it has been held since the financial crisis.
Service industries led the gains with 73,000 new jobs, while construction added 48,000 and health care provided 32,000. Retail also added 24,000. ... Link Its so relieving, realizing that if Romney managed to win the election, Republicans would be saying " Look what Romney did in a few months that Obama couldn't do in 4 years! Free market!"
That would have given me a nice ironic chuckle :p
On March 09 2013 01:55 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 01:51 Mohdoo wrote:On March 09 2013 00:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Job creation broke out in February, with the economy creating a net 236,000 new jobs as the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent.
Private job creation stood at a robust 246,000, finally indicating that the economy may be ready to escape the tight growth range in which it has been held since the financial crisis.
Service industries led the gains with 73,000 new jobs, while construction added 48,000 and health care provided 32,000. Retail also added 24,000. ... Link Its so relieving, realizing that if Romney managed to win the election, Republicans would be saying "Look what Romney did in a few months that Obama couldn't do in 4 years! Free market!" Have to disagree with that. I'm pretty sure they'd be saying the same thing everyone is saying now: good, but not good enough. The real test is summertime. If the job growth holds we're in good shape, if not than not good enough for sure. I'm optimistic this year - we've been missing out on summer job growth because housing has been stuck in the mud. Now that it's picking up we could be in for a nice surprise.
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On March 08 2013 19:50 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 06:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who served as al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been arrested and detained in Jordan in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), US government sources said.
Initial public confirmation of Suleiman Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
On Thursday, King called the arrest a "very significant victory" in the ongoing fight against al-Qaeda.
King said the capture was confirmed to him by US law enforcement officials.
The sources said Ghaith took part in the September 11, 2001, attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon and had initially been picked up in Turkey.
The Turkish government then deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. Source Aside from the actual capture, the most important part of this story is that they are planning on putting him in front of a Federal judge in New York. There are some politicians, such as Sen. Graham, who are saying he should be placed in Guantanamo Bay's facility. How do people feel about this? I guess if Obama can't get the facility closed he can just refuse to put anyone in there anymore.
Do we even have any civilian Correctional Officers with mutant superpowers? I mean we must already have spent so much money containing Ramzi Yousef's superpowers that it doesn't make sense to let more rogue mutant al Qaeda on America soil when we can put them in Cuba from whose soil apparently their superpowers draw no additional strength.
OR maybe al Qaeda members are human beings and regular prisons made of concrete and steel and easily contain them, but that's a very controversial opinion in America.
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On March 09 2013 02:54 HunterX11 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 19:50 Saryph wrote:On March 08 2013 06:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who served as al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been arrested and detained in Jordan in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), US government sources said.
Initial public confirmation of Suleiman Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
On Thursday, King called the arrest a "very significant victory" in the ongoing fight against al-Qaeda.
King said the capture was confirmed to him by US law enforcement officials.
The sources said Ghaith took part in the September 11, 2001, attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon and had initially been picked up in Turkey.
The Turkish government then deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. Source Aside from the actual capture, the most important part of this story is that they are planning on putting him in front of a Federal judge in New York. There are some politicians, such as Sen. Graham, who are saying he should be placed in Guantanamo Bay's facility. How do people feel about this? I guess if Obama can't get the facility closed he can just refuse to put anyone in there anymore. Do we even have any civilian Correctional Officers with mutant superpowers? I mean we must already have spent so much money containing Ramzi Yousef's superpowers that it doesn't make sense to let more rogue mutant al Qaeda on America soil when we can put them in Cuba from whose soil apparently their superpowers draw no additional strength. OR maybe al Qaeda members are human beings and regular prisons made of concrete and steel and easily contain them, but that's a very controversial opinion in America.
I always thought of it more as a "we don't shit where we eat" sort of thing rather than any fear of a terrorist escape.
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On March 09 2013 03:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:54 HunterX11 wrote:On March 08 2013 19:50 Saryph wrote:On March 08 2013 06:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who served as al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been arrested and detained in Jordan in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), US government sources said.
Initial public confirmation of Suleiman Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
On Thursday, King called the arrest a "very significant victory" in the ongoing fight against al-Qaeda.
King said the capture was confirmed to him by US law enforcement officials.
The sources said Ghaith took part in the September 11, 2001, attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon and had initially been picked up in Turkey.
The Turkish government then deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. Source Aside from the actual capture, the most important part of this story is that they are planning on putting him in front of a Federal judge in New York. There are some politicians, such as Sen. Graham, who are saying he should be placed in Guantanamo Bay's facility. How do people feel about this? I guess if Obama can't get the facility closed he can just refuse to put anyone in there anymore. Do we even have any civilian Correctional Officers with mutant superpowers? I mean we must already have spent so much money containing Ramzi Yousef's superpowers that it doesn't make sense to let more rogue mutant al Qaeda on America soil when we can put them in Cuba from whose soil apparently their superpowers draw no additional strength. OR maybe al Qaeda members are human beings and regular prisons made of concrete and steel and easily contain them, but that's a very controversial opinion in America. I always thought of it more as a "we don't shit where we eat" sort of thing rather than any fear of a terrorist escape.
Other people mind it too when we shit where they eat. They're lucky if we don't charge them for eating our shit too.
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On March 09 2013 04:05 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 03:57 farvacola wrote:On March 09 2013 02:54 HunterX11 wrote:On March 08 2013 19:50 Saryph wrote:On March 08 2013 06:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who served as al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been arrested and detained in Jordan in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), US government sources said.
Initial public confirmation of Suleiman Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
On Thursday, King called the arrest a "very significant victory" in the ongoing fight against al-Qaeda.
King said the capture was confirmed to him by US law enforcement officials.
The sources said Ghaith took part in the September 11, 2001, attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon and had initially been picked up in Turkey.
The Turkish government then deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. Source Aside from the actual capture, the most important part of this story is that they are planning on putting him in front of a Federal judge in New York. There are some politicians, such as Sen. Graham, who are saying he should be placed in Guantanamo Bay's facility. How do people feel about this? I guess if Obama can't get the facility closed he can just refuse to put anyone in there anymore. Do we even have any civilian Correctional Officers with mutant superpowers? I mean we must already have spent so much money containing Ramzi Yousef's superpowers that it doesn't make sense to let more rogue mutant al Qaeda on America soil when we can put them in Cuba from whose soil apparently their superpowers draw no additional strength. OR maybe al Qaeda members are human beings and regular prisons made of concrete and steel and easily contain them, but that's a very controversial opinion in America. I always thought of it more as a "we don't shit where we eat" sort of thing rather than any fear of a terrorist escape. Other people mind it too when we shit where they eat. They're lucky if we don't charge them for eating our shit too.
Hence why Guantanamo is in Cuba, a place and people whom are very easy for the average American to marginalize in their head.
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On March 08 2013 11:30 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:43 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:31 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:29 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 farvacola wrote:On March 08 2013 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 08 2013 10:06 aksfjh wrote:On March 08 2013 09:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-KY) epic 13-hour filibuster of John Brennan for CIA director finally came to an amicable resolution Thursday, but not before sparking a battle within the Republican Party hierarchy — the latest in a series of internal struggles the party has faced since the election.
On Paul’s side is the right-wing apparatus and their darlings in Congress — notably Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), who joined the filibuster. They were delighted by Paul’s highly public confrontation with the White House and cheered him on until the very end.
One the other side are the GOP foreign policy hawks, led by Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who are Washington’s chief guardians of broad executive power when it comes to dealing with the country’s enemies.
They were furious with Paul’s attacks on President Obama’s drone policy.
“To somehow allege or infer that the President of the United States is going to kill somebody like Jane Fonda, or somebody who disagrees with the policies, is a stretch of imagination which is, frankly, ridiculous,” McCain said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
He read from a scathing Wall Street Journal editorial declaring that “if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about.”
That angered the wealthy conservative activist group FreedomWorks, which called McCain’s remarks “rude and out of line,” and slammed him for “schmoozing with President Obama over dinner” while Paul was mounting his “courageous filibuster.”
FreedomWorks was among the biggest cheerleaders of Paul’s filibuster and, along with the Heritage Foundation, helped light up news and social media with their passionate support. The intensity of the push was noticed by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, who urged all Republican senators to “please go to the floor and help out” Paul. Fourteen of them went, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).
Infurated by McCain’s remarks the following morning, FreedomWorks proceeded to issue an action alert calling on its members to demand an apology from McCain. It encouraged its proclaimed 4 million members to send a letter to McCain. Source More Republican in-fighting! Wooooo! It's not in-fighting, it's the final rattling breaths of the old guard. The "fight" has already been decided, the new generation of Republican voters already know the sort of candidate they like. Libertarian Conservatives will become the new GOP, and neo-cons will go the way of the dinosaurs. In which case, the Dems had better be prepared for an absolute shit-storm of reorganization themselves in the next decade or two to match the changes in the oppositions strategy. And this is based on what exactly? The institution of the GOP has to change or die. That simple. I don't see the Democrats suddenly becoming the more "conservative" party, and the public already has its mind set against old style Conservatism. Libertarianism already has a following and has proven to be a viable ideological platform for Republicans in the last two rounds of elections. Basically that. Ok well that I don't disagree with, I just don't quite think the fight over the identity of the Republican Party has been decided yet. The new generation of Republicans all tend to have a Libertarian bent to them. They're already a strong enough force within the party to be able to publicly go against their senior members without fear of retribution. I'd say unless something significant occurs, Libertarianism is going to become the new Right. After all the "conservative" position is to stand still. The "liberal" position is to progress. Hence, Democrats (as the more liberal party) dictate the terms of the relative political spectrum within the country and the Republicans must try to stay within the moving framework at the tail end without accidentally "falling out the back end" of public opinion like they did in the last decade or so. We see what happens with these new Republicans in the general election. What we have are pockets of people that form their own feedback systems, that don't ever have to deal with other political ideals except through caricatures presented by their own ilk. Thus, the people they elect in primaries and in heavily red districts are often so far removed from the center that it becomes impossible to compromise and make government work with them. In other words, if the party shifts to "Libertarianism," it will implode.
On an absolute scale, Libertarians are far more "left" than the fading old guard of the GOP. New Reps are VERY different from old when compared internally. Relative to the Dems, they'll always look the same.
Implosion of the Republican party, not going to happen. But hey, you can dream, and I won't take that away from you.
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EPT
