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On November 06 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm a little baffled by the fact how low Obama's popularity is. The economy looks like its in pretty good shape and the healthcare reform was at least an improvement I guess, why is he so unpopular?
Not by US standards 
Growth has been below trend and real wage growth non-existent. Heathcare has seen some improvements, yes, but those improvements do not affect the vast majority of people.
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All i know is, that if a party would shut down the goverment over here, it would be wrecked for decades to come.
But "minor" stuff like this seems to be less Important than Obama not "making people feel good"... Or whatever....
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I still think the expectations some people have are insane. Compared to the Bush Jr. years his presidency looks pretty solid. I still don't understand the Ebola rage. The fact that no one besides healthcare professionals has gotten sick seems reasonable enough to not drift off into hysteria. The military shift towards drones and such seems to spare a lot of lives, and who can blame Obama for Putin going completely apeshit. The NSA stuff was certainly a big topic here but it didn't seem like it's bothering Americans too much anyway. Not saying that he's the best president ever, but he certainly seems to be doing a reasonable job given the circumstances.
If he does something he's a dictator, if he does nothing he's a lame duck, I have the feeling there's little he could do anyway to improve his image.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 06 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 06:34 Gorsameth wrote:On November 06 2014 06:21 Yoav wrote:On November 06 2014 01:20 Gorsameth wrote:On November 06 2014 00:50 johnbongham wrote:On November 06 2014 00:34 Velr wrote:On November 06 2014 00:24 johnbongham wrote:On November 06 2014 00:08 Velr wrote:In 20 years, assuming Obamacare is still going (which is more likely than not), it will not be seen as something bad. The bad things about it will be forgotten, what will be left is the improvement it brought. Seriously, Obamacare in the Long run, will most likely, be seen as a good thing. No matter how much you hate it now, no matter how big of a fiasco the Initial release was. Btw: What exactly are the Bushs legacies? Going into stupid wars and accumulating record debt? Your view on Obama, which I don't see as a good president myself, seems to be a bit narrow. There have been other presidents that were worse. The one right before him as an example was worse and wouldn't have gotten a second term if not for "lucky" 9/11 (or if you could count  ...) Obamacare will never be seen as a good thing. Actually, as soon as the majority of people realize that Obamacare is nothing more than a government mandated cash grab for big insurance companies its popularity is going to vaporize if it hasn't already. I am inclined to have a bet over this : Imho one of two Things will happen: 1: Either you will keep Obamacare beacuse you can't get anything else thru the houses, but also no one wants to go back to "pre Obamacare". (Obamacare = Better than what you had before) 2: You will Change obamacare over the years via reforms into something more "socialist". Which just wasn't possible with the republicans at the time of Obama (Obamacare = the start of something good). If universal healthcare sticks around in some form, Obamacare will be seen as the start of it. With time people, like in about any developed country in the world, will see universal healthcare as something "natural". I somehow feel like you'll eventually end up with a system like the Swiss one, I feel it would fit kinda nicely with american mentality/idea and allready has many similarities anyway. No there is nothing to bet. Universal healthcare is not obamacare. Obamacare is not the 'start' of universal healthcare. If universal healthcare does become a reality, it will be in spite of obamacare and a complete repudiation of it. Obamacare is NOT better than what we had before for a majority of people. It is more expensive, the plans are crap, and the healthcare people receive will remain compeltely the same if not get worse due to more high quality doctors not accepting low obamacare insurance payments for their services. Get a clue, dude. Everyone outside the US and a large portion inside the US would like to disagree with you. Oh and lets not forget that Obamacare was a compromise from the get-go in an attempt to get the Republicans on board, If the Democrats could have gotten a full Universal healthcare through congress they would have gladly done so. Uh, he's coming at it from a viewpoint I disagree (and ad hominem to boot) but he's not wrong. Obamacare is not Universal Healthcare. Europeans are (generally) in favor of a true universal healthcare. If they think Obamacare is it that is just ignorance and oversimplification. Obamacare is a corporatist solution to the healthcare problem. A nationalized solution (universal healthcare) would represent a repudiation of that. Where did I say that Obamacare is Universal Healthcare? I said that they could not get real Universal healthcare through Congress so they made Obamacare which is by no means perfect but its a whole lot better then what the US had before (which wasn't much of anything) It really isn't. People who had coverage already now largely have worse or more expensive coverage. The new plans that are going to lower income people are so bad that they are effectively unusable. I was talking with a client yesterday who is working two jobs to make ends meet. She still needs further medical treatment for a bad broken ankle that she sustained. She's paying for an Obamacare plan that she says that she can't really afford but has to buy, and she still can't afford the treatment that she needs using her current plan. It's really fucked.
this is pretty much expected especially given the continued real wage decline/treading water near the poverty level. obama's plan has not solved the cost of care problem whatsoever.
it's really too bad that politics is so dysfunctional right now. at the rate it's going healthcare is going to take up a crazy portion of gdp .
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72% of Americans think we're still in a recession even though we left it like 5 years ago and the unemployment rate is like 5.9%. It has to do with where the recovery is going. Almost all the gains are going to the richest Americans.
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On November 06 2014 06:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm a little baffled by the fact how low Obama's popularity is. The economy looks like its in pretty good shape and the healthcare reform was at least an improvement I guess, why is he so unpopular? Not by US standards Growth has been below trend and real wage growth non-existent. Heathcare has seen some improvements, yes, but those improvements do not affect the vast majority of people.
Well, by that metric Obama is in good company with the likes of Carter, Reagan, both Bushs' and Clinton.
http://www.businessinsider.com/real-wages-decline-literally-no-one-notices-2013-6
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On November 06 2014 07:01 Nyxisto wrote:
I still think the expectations some people have are insane. Compared to the Bush Jr. years his presidency looks pretty solid. I still don't understand the Ebola rage. The fact that no one besides healthcare professionals has gotten sick seems reasonable enough to not drift off into hysteria. The military shift towards drones and such seems to spare a lot of lives, and who can blame Obama for Putin going completely apeshit. The NSA stuff was certainly a big topic here but it didn't seem like it's bothering Americans too much anyway. Not saying that he's the best president ever, but he certainly seems to be doing a reasonable job given the circumstances.
If he does something he's a dictator, if he does nothing he's a lame duck, I have the feeling there's little he could do anyway to improve his image.
But you understand that when a leader says "it's not my fault" that many times on that many different issues, and especially if you fall back to comparing him to Bush, it looks less like reasonable explanations and more like excuse-making and poor leadership, yes?
If we're comparing this to Bush, remember that Democrats had their big swing in 2006, also over a spate of bad news and political exhaustion.
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It would be fun to see the effect of amnesty by fiat on the approval ratings. At least it would be if the act itself wasn't so depressing.
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On November 06 2014 07:01 Nyxisto wrote:
I still think the expectations some people have are insane. Compared to the Bush Jr. years his presidency looks pretty solid. I still don't understand the Ebola rage. The fact that no one besides healthcare professionals has gotten sick seems reasonable enough to not drift off into hysteria. The military shift towards drones and such seems to spare a lot of lives, and who can blame Obama for Putin going completely apeshit. The NSA stuff was certainly a big topic here but it didn't seem like it's bothering Americans too much anyway. Not saying that he's the best president ever, but he certainly seems to be doing a reasonable job given the circumstances.
I mean seriously with all the rhetoric, what would they have left to say if suddenly the economy looked like it did under the last Republican president...?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 06 2014 07:09 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 07:01 Nyxisto wrote:
I still think the expectations some people have are insane. Compared to the Bush Jr. years his presidency looks pretty solid. I still don't understand the Ebola rage. The fact that no one besides healthcare professionals has gotten sick seems reasonable enough to not drift off into hysteria. The military shift towards drones and such seems to spare a lot of lives, and who can blame Obama for Putin going completely apeshit. The NSA stuff was certainly a big topic here but it didn't seem like it's bothering Americans too much anyway. Not saying that he's the best president ever, but he certainly seems to be doing a reasonable job given the circumstances.
If he does something he's a dictator, if he does nothing he's a lame duck, I have the feeling there's little he could do anyway to improve his image. But you understand that when a leader says "it's not my fault" that many times on that many different issues, and especially if you fall back to comparing him to Bush, it looks less like reasonable explanations and more like excuse-making and poor leadership, yes? If we're comparing this to Bush, remember that Democrats had their big swing in 2006, also over a spate of bad news and political exhaustion.
obama would like to push through a new deal 2.0 if he has a super majority and i think he should have campaigned for it. but heh yea not gonna happen. for whatever reason there's been a serious lack of resolve for the sort of policies and people he should be caring about.
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On November 06 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 06:34 Gorsameth wrote:On November 06 2014 06:21 Yoav wrote:On November 06 2014 01:20 Gorsameth wrote:On November 06 2014 00:50 johnbongham wrote:On November 06 2014 00:34 Velr wrote:On November 06 2014 00:24 johnbongham wrote:On November 06 2014 00:08 Velr wrote:In 20 years, assuming Obamacare is still going (which is more likely than not), it will not be seen as something bad. The bad things about it will be forgotten, what will be left is the improvement it brought. Seriously, Obamacare in the Long run, will most likely, be seen as a good thing. No matter how much you hate it now, no matter how big of a fiasco the Initial release was. Btw: What exactly are the Bushs legacies? Going into stupid wars and accumulating record debt? Your view on Obama, which I don't see as a good president myself, seems to be a bit narrow. There have been other presidents that were worse. The one right before him as an example was worse and wouldn't have gotten a second term if not for "lucky" 9/11 (or if you could count ...) Obamacare will never be seen as a good thing. Actually, as soon as the majority of people realize that Obamacare is nothing more than a government mandated cash grab for big insurance companies its popularity is going to vaporize if it hasn't already. I am inclined to have a bet over this : Imho one of two Things will happen: 1: Either you will keep Obamacare beacuse you can't get anything else thru the houses, but also no one wants to go back to "pre Obamacare". (Obamacare = Better than what you had before) 2: You will Change obamacare over the years via reforms into something more "socialist". Which just wasn't possible with the republicans at the time of Obama (Obamacare = the start of something good). If universal healthcare sticks around in some form, Obamacare will be seen as the start of it. With time people, like in about any developed country in the world, will see universal healthcare as something "natural". I somehow feel like you'll eventually end up with a system like the Swiss one, I feel it would fit kinda nicely with american mentality/idea and allready has many similarities anyway. No there is nothing to bet. Universal healthcare is not obamacare. Obamacare is not the 'start' of universal healthcare. If universal healthcare does become a reality, it will be in spite of obamacare and a complete repudiation of it. Obamacare is NOT better than what we had before for a majority of people. It is more expensive, the plans are crap, and the healthcare people receive will remain compeltely the same if not get worse due to more high quality doctors not accepting low obamacare insurance payments for their services. Get a clue, dude. Everyone outside the US and a large portion inside the US would like to disagree with you. Oh and lets not forget that Obamacare was a compromise from the get-go in an attempt to get the Republicans on board, If the Democrats could have gotten a full Universal healthcare through congress they would have gladly done so. Uh, he's coming at it from a viewpoint I disagree (and ad hominem to boot) but he's not wrong. Obamacare is not Universal Healthcare. Europeans are (generally) in favor of a true universal healthcare. If they think Obamacare is it that is just ignorance and oversimplification. Obamacare is a corporatist solution to the healthcare problem. A nationalized solution (universal healthcare) would represent a repudiation of that. Where did I say that Obamacare is Universal Healthcare? I said that they could not get real Universal healthcare through Congress so they made Obamacare which is by no means perfect but its a whole lot better then what the US had before (which wasn't much of anything) It really isn't. People who had coverage already now largely have worse or more expensive coverage. The new plans that are going to lower income people are so bad that they are effectively unusable. I was talking with a client yesterday who is working two jobs to make ends meet. She still needs further medical treatment for a bad broken ankle that she sustained. She's paying for an Obamacare plan that she says that she can't really afford but has to buy, and she still can't afford the treatment that she needs using her current plan. It's really fucked.
And you didnt laugh at her for not pulling herself further up by the bootstarps? hand in your party card.
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Selective, anecdotal sympathy is entirely apropos after a victory!
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On November 06 2014 05:14 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 03:26 Lord Tolkien wrote:On November 06 2014 03:20 Wolfstan wrote:On November 06 2014 03:10 Rassy wrote:
So,
Does the outcome of this election mean that the next president will be a republican or is it all open and will a new democratic candidate (Hillary?) still have a chance? The 2016 general election will be more decided by the state of the economy than who won in 2014. As it's nearing the end of the business cycle, the candidate will have a harder time depending how deep the recession is. Question mark, question mark. Which candidate and what business cycle. The US economy by 2016 should continue to recover, there's no major shocks on the horizon that are likely to disrupt it. The economy will still be important, but I suspect it'll be more about wages, wealth distribution/social stratification, and social mobility, as opposed to unemployment.2016 will probably have a host of issues on the table, with the economy's importance minimizing as the economy continues to recover. Education will probably be a hot topic (it already has been in quite a few 2014 elections). Immigration reform will depend on how the next few years go. (sidenote, I find it very interesting that undocumented migration has been a hot topic this mid election, when net migration from Mexico has fallen below 0 since 2012, with the disruptive effects of NAFTA on the Mexican economy and its subsequent migratory increases finally shifting into an outflow of undocumented migrants) Sidenote: It's quite sad. Bush Jr. could've been a fantastic president without 9/11, if he had been allowed to focus on domestic issues like education, as he had planned, in conjunction with his energetic foreign assistance programs for developing countries. It's kind of like Carter, really. Are you Nostradamus? Or do people routinely predict economic crises a year or two in advance?
Yes.
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On November 06 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm a little baffled by the fact how low Obama's popularity is. The economy looks like its in pretty good shape and the healthcare reform was at least an improvement I guess, why is he so unpopular?
Because government is unpopular; and Obama hasn't been that impressive. passable, but not impressive.
Note that while Obama's popularity is a little low; republicans are a little worse, and congress is waaay worse.
So it's not like others are beating Obama in popularity; they've all got terrible ratings.
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On November 06 2014 07:26 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
It really isn't. People who had coverage already now largely have worse or more expensive coverage. The new plans that are going to lower income people are so bad that they are effectively unusable. I was talking with a client yesterday who is working two jobs to make ends meet. She still needs further medical treatment for a bad broken ankle that she sustained. She's paying for an Obamacare plan that she says that she can't really afford but has to buy, and she still can't afford the treatment that she needs using her current plan. It's really fucked. And you didnt laugh at her for not pulling herself further up by the bootstarps? hand in your party card.
Haha isn't this where xDaunt is supposed to berate this individual for being irresponsible and making poor life choices? I am disappoint.
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I hope someone does a study of how many times the word "lame duck" was said on cable TV in the past 24 hours.
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On November 06 2014 07:39 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 07:26 Sub40APM wrote:On November 06 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:
It really isn't. People who had coverage already now largely have worse or more expensive coverage. The new plans that are going to lower income people are so bad that they are effectively unusable. I was talking with a client yesterday who is working two jobs to make ends meet. She still needs further medical treatment for a bad broken ankle that she sustained. She's paying for an Obamacare plan that she says that she can't really afford but has to buy, and she still can't afford the treatment that she needs using her current plan. It's really fucked. And you didnt laugh at her for not pulling herself further up by the bootstarps? hand in your party card. Haha isn't this where xDaunt is supposed to berate this individual for being irresponsible and making poor life choices? I am disappoint.
I thought about putting her over my knee, but I've become a pussy like the rest of you.
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It's OK man, empathy happens to the best of us. Next thing you know, you'll get this sudden urge to move to the west coast and hang out with us hippies.
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On November 06 2014 07:06 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 06:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 06 2014 06:28 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm a little baffled by the fact how low Obama's popularity is. The economy looks like its in pretty good shape and the healthcare reform was at least an improvement I guess, why is he so unpopular? Not by US standards Growth has been below trend and real wage growth non-existent. Heathcare has seen some improvements, yes, but those improvements do not affect the vast majority of people. Well, by that metric Obama is in good company with the likes of Carter, Reagan, both Bushs' and Clinton. http://www.businessinsider.com/real-wages-decline-literally-no-one-notices-2013-6
heh, good catch 
Previously wage growth was eaten up by benefit hikes. The last cycle has just been a crummy labor market with no real compensation growth at all. Nominal wage growth has been dismal as well, which matters insofar as debts are concerned.
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guys, dont get angry at each other.
we are all disappointed that obama didnt get us the walrus mailbox we love
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EPT
