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On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
Julian Castro probably falls into the "Obama-esque" category, but I don't think it will or would play out the same way.
On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
To the contrary, we heap tons of praise upon him for his campaigning ability -- most often using that praise to deride his actual ability to govern.
On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
To the contrary, we heap tons of praise upon him for his campaigning ability -- most often using that praise to deride his actual ability to govern.
That IS the system we've created for ourselves. Probably get better quality administrators out of an aristocracy, honestly.
On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
To the contrary, we heap tons of praise upon him for his campaigning ability -- most often using that praise to deride his actual ability to govern.
That IS the system we've created for ourselves. Probably get better quality administrators out of an aristocracy, honestly.
Yeah really. Whoever's the best salesman gets the job. Its actually kind of scary how similar campaign talk sounds to a used car salesman.
On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
To the contrary, we heap tons of praise upon him for his campaigning ability -- most often using that praise to deride his actual ability to govern.
That IS the system we've created for ourselves. Probably get better quality administrators out of an aristocracy, honestly.
Yeah really. Whoever's the best salesman gets the job. Its actually kind of scary how similar campaign talk sounds to a used car salesman.
MARIPOSA, Calif. (AP) — Firefighters from throughout California are being dispatched to protect homes that are under threat from a wildfire burning in the foothills near Yosemite National Park.
Fire officials said on Tuesday morning that the blaze in Madera County had destroyed eight structures and was threatening 500 others. It isn't clear how many of those structures are homes, but officials said mandatory evacuation orders had gone out to some 13,000 phone numbers for homes and businesses. The fire has burned through nearly 2 square miles.
Four hotels in the community of Oakhurst about 16 miles away from an entrance to Yosemite were evacuated and Tuesday classes have been canceled for most of the Yosemite Unified School District.
The fire was burning near a propane business with 30,000 gallon tanks on site, but the Modesto Bee reports the tanks were spared and the threat to them was brief.
On August 20 2014 03:16 zlefin wrote: That's why I'd like to shift away from the current election system to one which favors salesmanship less, and administrative ability more.
Good luck with that when its the salesman who decided how they are elected.
Overall, we found that by disproportionately stopping, charging and fining the poor and minorities, by closing the Courts to the public, and by incarcerating people for the failure to pay fines, these policies unintentionally push the poor further into poverty, prevent the homeless from accessing the housing, treatment, and jobs they so desperately need to regain stability in their lives, and violate the Constitution. These ongoing violations of the most fundamental guarantees of the Constitution are the product of a disordered, fragmented, and inefficient approach to criminal justice in St. Louis County.
Source Basically a key revenue stream for local governments is fines related to traffic offenses. People get pulled over for speeding or whatever, and are assessed a fine of a couple hundred dollars. If they are unable to pay it, a warrant gets issued for their arrest, and they are likely to end up in jail for "as much as three weeks waiting to see a judge," and have even more fines to pay.
A few key facts from the report: - "Despite their poverty, defendants are frequently ordered to pay fines that are frequently triple their monthly income." - "According to the St. Louis County two municipalities alone, Ferguson and Florissant, earned a combined net profit of $3.5 million off of their municipal courts in 2013." - "After being stopped in Ferguson, blacks are almost twice as likely as whites to be searched (12.1% vs. 6.9%) and twice as likely to be arrested (10.4% vs. 5.2%)." -"[One defendant] described the startlingly common experience of being instructed to call everybody he could think of who might have money to pay his fine — with the promise of three or four days in jail if he could not find somebody with enough money." - "Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400."
Based on this information, the community's response to Brown's shooting should surprise no one.
Pretty sure black people make up about 86% of traffic stops in Ferguson too.
According to last year’s Vehicle Stop Report for Ferguson, African-American drivers there represented 86 percent of all traffic stops despite making up only 67 percent of the city’s population; white drivers, by contrast, accounted for only about 13 percent of the traffic stops in Ferguson despite making up 29 percent of its population. Meanwhile, African-American drivers accounted for nearly 93 percent of the arrests and whites only 7 percent, despite the fact that, when Ferguson police did search drivers, they found contraband on more than a third of their white targets and only a fifth of their black ones.
Are people still suggesting there isn't a racial component to the disproportionate policing?
On August 20 2014 03:16 zlefin wrote: That's why I'd like to shift away from the current election system to one which favors salesmanship less, and administrative ability more.
On August 19 2014 22:57 WhiteDog wrote: What do you guys think about Hillary Clinton, will she be the next president of the US ? Her positions on foreign questions are, to me, rather problematic.
As I have been saying for some time, I'm not sure that she will make it out of the primary. Her openly thumbing her nose at Obama on foreign policy issues is going to cost her with the democratic base. More to the point, I'm not entirely sure that she's going to gain anything among the general electorate if she does make it out.
Is there someone else beside Hillary that could be the representative for the democrats ?
Beats me. There weren't many people who thought that a total political neophyte such as Obama would displace Hillary in 2008. I just foresee the democrat party throwing her overboard again for many of the same reasons that they did in 2008, and her current anti-Obama foreign policy campaign certainly isn't winning her any additional supporters from the base.
Obama was being telegraphed as the next potential hope since 04 when he gave that speech at Kerry's nomination. There is no parallel guy like that. Especially someone who will inspire the kind of infrastructure Obama had actually set up when he ran. I really get the feeling that a lot of Republicans dont appreciate Obama the electioneer as much as they should, the guy ran one of the best campaigns twice in presidential politics.
To the contrary, we heap tons of praise upon him for his campaigning ability -- most often using that praise to deride his actual ability to govern.
I honestly dont get that from a lot of Republicans I talk to. Most of them either talk about how millenials are mindless sheep and blacks were bought off with Obamaphones or that he fluked in 08 and in 12 the Republicans didnt put in a 'true Republican.' The reality is the guy ran campaigns that will be studied for years.
Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder:
The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet.
Not as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort.
On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote: Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder:
The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet.
Not as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort.
a man with a knife, They know he has the knife and have plenty of time to respond to it. There are even 2 of them. Thats sounds in no way like a last resort situation..
On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote: Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder:
The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet.
Not as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort.
We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do.
If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period.
On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote: Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder:
The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet.
Not as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort.
We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do.
If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period.
So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol.
On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote: Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder:
The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet.
Not as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort.
We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do.
If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period.
Almost 50% of the shots fired by German police were warning shots... It's undeniably obvious there are better ways for the police to handle these situations. Just because someone gives you a legally escapable way to kill them doesn't mean it's your only or best option.
I mean they had tear gas, rubber and wood bullets, and a whole host of less-lethal options that couldn't of been that far away.
There was a guy in Seattle with a sword who stood off with police for 11 hours and they managed not to kill him, pretty sure they could of and should of handled this guy in St Louis without having to end his life.
Also they are supposed to 'shoot to stop' if they shot someone and they stopped 'attacking' they can't just keep shooting them.
Overall, we found that by disproportionately stopping, charging and fining the poor and minorities, by closing the Courts to the public, and by incarcerating people for the failure to pay fines, these policies unintentionally push the poor further into poverty, prevent the homeless from accessing the housing, treatment, and jobs they so desperately need to regain stability in their lives, and violate the Constitution. These ongoing violations of the most fundamental guarantees of the Constitution are the product of a disordered, fragmented, and inefficient approach to criminal justice in St. Louis County.
Source Basically a key revenue stream for local governments is fines related to traffic offenses. People get pulled over for speeding or whatever, and are assessed a fine of a couple hundred dollars. If they are unable to pay it, a warrant gets issued for their arrest, and they are likely to end up in jail for "as much as three weeks waiting to see a judge," and have even more fines to pay.
A few key facts from the report: - "Despite their poverty, defendants are frequently ordered to pay fines that are frequently triple their monthly income." - "According to the St. Louis County two municipalities alone, Ferguson and Florissant, earned a combined net profit of $3.5 million off of their municipal courts in 2013." - "After being stopped in Ferguson, blacks are almost twice as likely as whites to be searched (12.1% vs. 6.9%) and twice as likely to be arrested (10.4% vs. 5.2%)." -"[One defendant] described the startlingly common experience of being instructed to call everybody he could think of who might have money to pay his fine — with the promise of three or four days in jail if he could not find somebody with enough money." - "Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400."
Based on this information, the community's response to Brown's shooting should surprise no one.
EPT
