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On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol.
It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too.
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On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period.
not a smart thing to do *
*according to police**
** who are typically not smart people***
*** who typically have a relatively low standard for shooting accuracy compared to other government employees with guns due to states and the federal government not establishing a baseline.
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House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on Tuesday joined the chorus of national lawmakers calling for a review of the federal program that transfers military gear to local police, amid ongoing unrest in Ferguson, Mo.
"The Leader supports examining the overall federal effort of giving military-type equipment to local police departments. Recent events in Ferguson show need for greater oversight and guidance, and she supports the call for hearings on this issue by Reps. Conyers, Bobby Scott, and Cohen. Cutting off all funding -- like the Grayson amendment -- is a blunt instrument, but oversight and appropriate scale of funding for such programs need to be examined," said a Pelosi aide.
Rep. Alan Grayson's (D-FL) amendment, rejected by the House two months ago, would have prohibited the transfers of specific military-grade weapons and vehicles.
Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) is planning on introducing a bill to ratchet back Pentagon transfers of certain military equipment to local police.
Source
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On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too.
Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not.
And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him?
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On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him?
You say this like the US is the only place that has those problems
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On August 20 2014 06:20 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? You say this like the US is the only place that has those problems
Does it happen no where else? No ofc not it happens everywhere and its terrible but thats the way it is. Sometimes things go wrong.
Does it happen more often and is it more accepted in the US then almost anywhere else? I would say yes, and thats a very bad thing.
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On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him?
No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops.
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On August 20 2014 06:22 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:20 showstealer1829 wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? You say this like the US is the only place that has those problems Does it happen no where else? No ofc not it happens everywhere and its terrible but thats the way it is. Sometimes things go wrong. Does it happen more often and is it more accepted in the US then almost anywhere else? I would say yes, and thats a very bad thing.
You sir have clearly not lived in Melbourne  Our police's motto is *Repeated Gunfire* "Stop or I'll shoot"
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On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops.
The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him.
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On August 20 2014 06:20 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? You say this like the US is the only place that has those problems
The police both used aerosolized pepper 2 times, warning shots and shot him at the legs several times before killing him. They seem to have done everything in their power to avoid the last resort.
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On August 20 2014 06:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops. The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him.
Ofc it has a bearing. Someone trying to get killed isn't going to respond normally and the situation can escalate quickly and in surprising ways.
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On August 20 2014 06:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:31 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops. The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him. Ofc it has a bearing. Someone trying to get killed isn't going to respond normally and the situation can escalate quickly and in surprising ways.
A man with a knife is stopped by 2 cops. The cops know he has a knife and have time to ask him to disarm several times before the man charges them. No killing him without exhausting their other options, and they should have other options, is not acceptable.
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Oh wow, US polices are heavily armed. Really weird to see "military" vs "unarmed" people
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On August 20 2014 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:31 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops. The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him. Ofc it has a bearing. Someone trying to get killed isn't going to respond normally and the situation can escalate quickly and in surprising ways. A man with a knife is stopped by 2 cops. The cops know he has a knife and have time to ask him to disarm several times before the man charges them. No killing him without exhausting their other options, and they should have other options, is not acceptable.
They guy charged the police on his own time table. If the police wanted to use other options, they weren't given the opportunity.
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On August 20 2014 06:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:31 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: [quote] NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops. The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him. Ofc it has a bearing. Someone trying to get killed isn't going to respond normally and the situation can escalate quickly and in surprising ways. A man with a knife is stopped by 2 cops. The cops know he has a knife and have time to ask him to disarm several times before the man charges them. No killing him without exhausting their other options, and they should have other options, is not acceptable. They guy charged the police on his own time table. If the police wanted to use other options, they weren't given the opportunity.
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it.
Sounds like they had time.
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On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him?
No, but that's besides the point. I'm licensed to carry firearms. I'm allowed to shoot someone that is threatening me with the risk of imminent death or great bodily harm. If some guy with a knife charges me, I'm shooting him with the intent of making him stop -- which probably means killing him. The rule is basically the same for cops.
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On August 20 2014 06:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:31 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:25 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:
[quote]
We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do.
If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, police often use non-lethal methods. In the case you're citing it was suicide by cop - the person killed was actively trying to get killed, which is an atypically dangerous and hard to handle situation for cops. The fact he wanted to apparently wanted to die has no bearing on the situation that the only answer 2 cops had to a man with a knife was to kill him. Ofc it has a bearing. Someone trying to get killed isn't going to respond normally and the situation can escalate quickly and in surprising ways. A man with a knife is stopped by 2 cops. The cops know he has a knife and have time to ask him to disarm several times before the man charges them. No killing him without exhausting their other options, and they should have other options, is not acceptable. They guy charged the police on his own time table. If the police wanted to use other options, they weren't given the opportunity. Show nested quote +
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it.
Sounds like they had time.
Sounds like they didn't.
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On August 20 2014 06:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, but that's besides the point. I'm licensed to carry firearms. I'm allowed to shoot someone that is threatening me with the risk of imminent death or great bodily harm. If some guy with a knife charges me, I'm shooting him with the intent of making him stop -- which probably means killing him. The rule is basically the same for cops.
Then what the hell do we train cops for?
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On August 20 2014 06:12 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. not a smart thing to do * *according to police** ** who are typically not smart people*** *** who typically have a relatively low standard for shooting accuracy compared to other government employees with guns due to states and the federal government not establishing a baseline.
The problem in this dialog is that both one side does not know what the other is saying.
"If you shoot, shoot to kill" does NOT mean that police should constantly be shooting people. They should be very rarely shooting them. If you accept shooting to wound to stop someone as a valid option to resolve the conflict, that means that you will be willing to shoot someone a lot more often than if you are only willing to actually pull the trigger if the intent is to kill someone. Which should be very rarely tha case for policemen, since there are only very few options where you really need to stop someone so badly that you are willing to kill someone. At least that is how it should be. If that is not the case, that is a completely different problem.
The problem with shooting to wound is that guns are really dangerous. If you shoot people often, more people will die, no matter what you aim at. Because there are vital things in pretty much any part of the body, like major arteries for example. Thus, you should aim to shoot less in general if you intend to kill less people. And only shooting if the need to stop someone is so great that you are willing to kill them is, at least theoretically, a good way to reduce the amount of shooting people do.
The problem is that in the US, this is apparently not the case, as the police is armed like an army and shooting people is apparently not something you do only in very dire circumstances, but pretty much whenever because there are no major consequences if shooting someone is questionable. Which is bad, but a completely different problem than the whole "Shoot only to kill" thing.
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On August 20 2014 06:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 06:09 xDaunt wrote:On August 20 2014 05:56 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2014 05:45 Millitron wrote:On August 20 2014 05:40 radiatoren wrote:Another man killed in St. Louis. I am a bit surprised by the police again mentioning theft as if it has any effect on the murder: The man in the St. Louis shooting, 23, had taken energy drinks and a package of pastries from a nearby convenience store, Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters. He said that the man was “acting erratically, walking back and forth, up and down the street.”
The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he did not drop it. The chief said the man told the police: “Shoot me now. Kill me now.”
He said the two officers fired after the man moved toward one of them and came within 3 to 4 feet. NBC newsNot as problematic as the other murder, but usually the first shots are taken to disarm the attacker in such situations. Shoot to kill is a last resort. We've been over this. Shooting-to-wound is not a thing smart people do. If someone is worth shooting, they're worth shooting center of mass. If you don't need to stop him at all costs, you don't need to shoot him, period. So your telling me the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife is death? And you wonder why the police is hated so much lol. It is if he charges someone with a gun. I'd shoot, too. Are you a trained and qualified policeman with a variaty of tools at your disposal? No your not. And I stand by my question. Is the only answer the US police has to a man with a knife to kill him? No, but that's besides the point. I'm licensed to carry firearms. I'm allowed to shoot someone that is threatening me with the risk of imminent death or great bodily harm. If some guy with a knife charges me, I'm shooting him with the intent of making him stop -- which probably means killing him. The rule is basically the same for cops.
Shoot to his leg?
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EPT
