|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 18 2014 06:24 yido wrote:
About Ferguson, MO situation. What do you guys think about the current "racism" in the southern metropolitan areas? I have only lived in Michigan and California, and wondering if it is as bad as the protesters are claiming it to be. As I have immigrated to America, I don't have a good perspective nor the "social network" to get solid information.
I will be in the job market within the next year and was very open to moving to another area in the country, however these recent events have me hesitant on which areas to choose. I am not Caucasian and have suffered racism but it was very minor things that didn't bother me greatly. I have noticed that I genuinely feel uncomfortable in the rural areas, but I've never been uncomfortable in an urban area. Are the suburban areas of the "Deep South" still very xenophobic? Would dating or networking be difficult for a minority?
Please and thank you for the response.
Were you not in California for the LA riots? From what I've seen so far, this seems to be similar in that there is some racial component to the original protest but most of the looting and violence is opportunistic. Of course the police had to expect an angry reaction from the neighborhood after shooting a kid and they seem to be making the mob angrier with their insistence that it was justified. Nothing would make the crowd less angry, but I think to go through the process and slow this thing down is the more proper response.
I don't think this is a "Southern" thing and you shouldn't use the news to guide your career.
|
Nor should he use this thread as a place for advice. Find some people who actually live/ have lived there and talk to them face to face, or over the phone. The internet is not a good representative sample of anything.
|
^Thank you very much for the advice.
I think I should just delete my post as I don't think this would be a good place to ask such a question and may cause some bad arguments.
I wasn't there for the LA riots and not very well traveled. I don't have connections to many people in the south.
|
On August 18 2014 06:24 yido wrote:
About Ferguson, MO situation. What do you guys think about the current "racism" in the southern metropolitan areas? I have only lived in Michigan and California, and wondering if it is as bad as the protesters are claiming it to be. As I have immigrated to America, I don't have a good perspective nor the "social network" to get solid information.
I will be in the job market within the next year and was very open to moving to another area in the country, however these recent events have me hesitant on which areas to choose. I am not Caucasian and have suffered racism but it was very minor things that didn't bother me greatly. I have noticed that I genuinely feel uncomfortable in the rural areas, but I've never been uncomfortable in an urban area. Are the suburban areas of the "Deep South" still very xenophobic? Would dating or networking be difficult for a minority?
Please and thank you for the response.
I have family in Oklahoma and their neighborhood is openly segregated. In Washington state i consistently get dirty looks when i am with my girlfriend. There is still a shit ton of racism in the south and on the east coast. There is significantly less on the west coast, but once you get towards the sticks its racist as shit again.
|
|
|
|
|
I just wish people would stfu and let the criminal process run its course. The facts will eventually come to light. Way too many judgments are being rendered on speculation. One would think that people would have learned their lesson after the Zimmerman trial.
|
Oh fuck off. They're not protesting anything, they're happy that the police are keeping the blacks in their place. There's a pretty large difference between being pissed off about being treated unfairly and being in favor of treating people unfairly for your own benefit.
|
On August 18 2014 12:15 IgnE wrote:
No. I don't get it.
You have to use your imagination. There are 3 scenarios.
1. Brown was unarmed and after a confrontation with the officer backed away arms up and was gunned down, justice will have to wait till after the trial. (Officer will be punished.)
2. Brown was unarmed and during the confrontation severely beat the officer and fearing for his life the police shot and killed him. Justice will have to wait after the trial, (this is most likely the case and will be a long drawn out trial.)
3. Brown robs a cigar store, walks down the middle of a street blocking traffic, once the officer tells the young man to get off the street, Brown ignores and then after a confrontation attacks the officer and fearing death the officer kills him. Justice is served. Self defense. <--- thats the justice one do u get it now
|
United States44307 Posts
"If he is punished police officers will be frightened and not want to kill unarmed teenagers"
While I agree with the logic of the supporters of him here I can't help wondering if they've missed the point.
|
United States44307 Posts
On August 18 2014 12:22 Roswell wrote:You have to use your imagination. There are 3 scenarios. 1. Brown was unarmed and after a confrontation with the officer backed away arms up and was gunned down, justice will have to wait till after the trial. (Officer will be punished.) 2. Brown was unarmed and during the confrontation severely beat the officer and fearing for his life the police shot and killed him. Justice will have to wait after the trial, (this is most likely the case and will be a long drawn out trial.) 3. Brown robs a cigar store, walks down the middle of a street blocking traffic, once the officer tells the young man to get off the street, Brown ignores and then after a confrontation attacks the officer and fearing death the officer kills him. Justice is served. Self defense. <--- thats the justice one do u get it now
A police officer killing a suspect is never, ever justice. That goes against every principle the modern civilised world is built on. Justice can only be given by the people through the legal system of which the police are not a part. Police are not judges, nor juries. They are not legislators.
The job of the police is to keep the peace and to ensure that those who break the law meet justice before the courts. That is all. Sometimes in the service of this duty police may be forced to take a life but even when that might be necessary it is not justice. It is not murder but it is also not justice, it is an unfortunate outcome of a conflict.
This is what separates the police from an armed mob doing what the fuck they like. People need to understand that the police do not, and should not, have the power to sentence people. Justice does not exist outside of the institutions created by the people to try the people in the courts of the people.
Also even if you accept that you live in a Judge Dredd dystopia in which a police officer can sentence you for a crime on the spot with no appeal, do you really think that the sentence for stealing $50 of cigars should be death? If a police officer is forced to choose between letting someone get away with petty theft or ending a life do you really think it's a good punishment?
Either way the police officer didn't know about the cigars at the time, whether or not the guy was a nice person or a criminal doesn't actually impact the issue of whether shooting was necessary within the scenario. I contend that unless the life of the officer or another was directly at stake it was not. But this is what you get when you fill your police force with veterans who have just returned from urban warfare in Iraq, don't treat their PTSD and then give them military equipment.
|
On August 18 2014 12:25 KwarK wrote:
"If he is punished police officers will be frightened and not want to kill unarmed teenagers"
While I agree with the logic of the supporters of him here I can't help wondering if they've missed the point.
Police Officers are not SUPPOSED to kill unarmed civilians. That's not the fucking purpose of the gun they carry in their holsters.
What the hell ever happened to shooting to wound? What the hell happened to warning shots? Since when is the policy of "Shoot first, ask questions later" an acceptable policy for the American police forces to adopt.
They're not an occupying army, United States citizens are not foreign rebels. Their job is to keep the peace and maintain law and order, in that purpose lethal force needs to be a last resort, not a first resort.
When a police officer kills an unarmed civilian, they are acting as judge jury and executioner all at once. That is not the role of a police officer.
|
Of course it could be justice, he just happened to be a police officer. I'd say the same thing if it had been the other way around, in fact to a greater sense. Justice is subjective. Guess u never seen Justified.
Edit: But i agree with previous poster and my past self, we need to wait, it is why these infantile protests are meaningless in my mind.
|
On August 18 2014 12:38 Roswell wrote:
Of course it could be justice, he just happened to be a police officer. I'd say the same thing if it had been the other way around, in fact to a greater sense. Justice is subjective. Guess u never seen Justified.
Vigilante Justice and Legal Justice are two VERY different things.
One is illegal for a reason. Any nut job can shoot up a movie theater or bomb a building and call it justice. We do not as a society endorse giving those people any kind of responsibility, especially responsibility which involves fire arms.
We have to hold Police to a higher standard than a regular old nut job.
|
On August 18 2014 12:18 xDaunt wrote:
I just wish people would stfu and let the criminal process run its course. The facts will eventually come to light. Way too many judgments are being rendered on speculation. One would think that people would have learned their lesson after the Zimmerman trial. I'm increasingly pessimistic on nearly all television, radio, and print media indulging in wild speculation as par for the course. Once one group makes their broad assertions, their ideological counterparts respond--still based on nothing but speculation, and the ratings go up and the crowd hungers for each new "expert" painting large a shred of new information that's come to light. Even back with Trayvon Martin, I knew the next story in that narrative white(ish) cop black teen would be the same. We are everything short of our President again declaring that if he had a son, he'd look like Michael. It's the narrative that's important, first and foremost. The only silver lining is increased scrutiny and debate on militarization of police forces (riot gear aside) that should function as a civilian police force.
|
On August 18 2014 12:18 xDaunt wrote:
I just wish people would stfu and let the criminal process run its course. The facts will eventually come to light. Way too many judgments are being rendered on speculation. One would think that people would have learned their lesson after the Zimmerman trial.
This is not an isolated incident. People are pissed because this incident is an iconic example of several deep problems with the american justice system;
1. The disproportionate amount of "policing" we do to keep our minorities 'in line'.
2. The amount of insulation our officers have from the legal system itself.
3. The extent to which officers are encouraged to use disproportionate force. |
4. The way the legal system has been designed to affect minorities more than white people.
I don't know why you brought up the Trayvon case. We never learned the facts because the nobody was watching the wannabe cop. It doesn't mean he was innocent or guitly. It just means that you can get away with anything if nobody else is alive to tell a different version of the story, which is why people are calling for greater police surveillance.
|
On August 18 2014 12:39 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 12:38 Roswell wrote:
Of course it could be justice, he just happened to be a police officer. I'd say the same thing if it had been the other way around, in fact to a greater sense. Justice is subjective. Guess u never seen Justified. Vigilante Justice and Legal Justice are two VERY different things. One is illegal for a reason.
And that is why I said, justice might have already been served, but alas, we should wait for our incredible never failing justice system to see True Justice, as you would like.
|
On August 18 2014 12:38 Roswell wrote:
Of course it could be justice, he just happened to be a police officer. I'd say the same thing if it had been the other way around, in fact to a greater sense. Justice is subjective. Guess u never seen Justified.
Edit: But i agree with previous poster and my past self, we need to wait, it is why these infantile protests are meaningless in my mind.
I think "lawful" is the term that you are looking for --- not justice.
|
On August 18 2014 12:41 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 12:18 xDaunt wrote:
I just wish people would stfu and let the criminal process run its course. The facts will eventually come to light. Way too many judgments are being rendered on speculation. One would think that people would have learned their lesson after the Zimmerman trial. This is not an isolated incident. People are pissed because this incident is an iconic example of several deep problems with the american justice system; 1. The disproportionate amount of "policing" we do to keep our minorities 'in line'. 2. The amount of insulation our officers have from the legal system itself. 3. The extent to which officers are encouraged to use disproportionate force. | 4. The way the legal system has been designed to affect minorities more than white people. I don't know why you brought up the Trayvon case. We never learned the facts because the nobody was watching the wannabe cop. It doesn't mean he was innocent or guitly. It just means that you can get away with anything if nobody else is alive to tell a different version of the story, which is why people are calling for greater police surveillance.
What the fuck are you talking about? There was an eyewitness in that case that saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman. That was a case that should never have been brought to trial. Still, there were all sorts of loudmouths that had no trouble calling for Zimmerman's head both before and after the trial. This present case is on the exact same trajectory. It just remains to be seen what he actual facts are.
|
"Lawful is an adjective and "justice" is a noun. Surely you aren't suggesting that Roswell doesn't know the difference?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
