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On August 16 2014 05:34 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:15 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. ![[image loading]](http://4-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/xbrown-robbery-stroe.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Dzg1QE4GTT.jpg) So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution without trial ? On August 16 2014 04:07 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 01:00 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 00:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 00:00 aksfjh wrote:On August 15 2014 23:39 Crushinator wrote:On August 15 2014 23:07 aksfjh wrote:On August 15 2014 15:45 OuchyDathurts wrote:
[quote]
Education done right isn't easy. I think our education system as a whole sucks. When everything is about giving the right answer and regurgitating things to pass the class instead of critical thinking and reasoned discussion there's a problem IMO. School being a one size fits all prospect instead of letting kids learn more about fields they're interested sucks. Hell, the first time I recall thinking something I was learning was legitimately cool was when I started taking Physics, it was an actual mind fuck learning that stuff and I was excited to learn more. If it takes that long to reach a kid there's a problem. But going into the problems of our education system we could be here forever.
Targeting crime first to me probably means more people in prison which doesn't change anything. It's trying to deal with adults while none of the problems underneath are being dealt with. Yeah the whole "Children are our future" thing is cliche, but it's also true. If you don't deal with them then it'll be one more generation gone to waste. Young people have a knack for changing the way society sees things. Things that were one taboo become the way things are and they become more accepted. We had extreme racism and segregation, we got rid of the segregation and kids ended up thinking "hey, those black/white/asian/hispanic/etc kids aren't so bad!" and it became more normal. Then different races hanging out together and interracial relationships became more normal. Kids started having an openly gay friend or family member, homosexuality became more openly accepted. Video games will rot your brain and make you a serial killer, kids have grown up with them and now everyone plays them. Less and less people care about those things that were once huge issues because young people have grown up with them and made them no big deal in society, and that's a great thing.
Education IMO has become "cooler" over time. We went from nothing to Mr. Rogers who was a square, to Bill Nye, to Mythbusters, etc. Educational science programming is letting people see all the cool shit you can do and how the universe works, that stuff can be engaging to kids. Our technology, which most people love, is evolving so fast. Everyone wants the newest gadget, all this stuff that was seen as dorky is really sweet and everyone wants it. Video games for learning have been a boon. Number Munchers and Oregon Trail back in my day were sick, now the tech and what we can do is way way better.
The problems are all intertwined. Adults need to make enough money where they can be with their kids, parent, and help with homework. Crime needs to not be all the kids see or know, minorities can't get unequal treatment from the law. Education needs to be improved and given way more money. Stigmas must be changed. It's a fucking giant disaster that no one seem to legitimately give a shit about since none of these issues are being looked at let alone changed. But, in my opinion it all comes back to the education.
Jesus Christ I need to stop writing novels >< Just adding a tiny bit of my own thoughts on this. Education is very much a competitive aspect, so improving education for everybody doesn't help with the problems of racial discrimination (intentional or not). Not only that, but it doesn't even really help with poverty (or crime for that matter) if the floor somebody can be paid is at or below the poverty level. Thus, from a policy standpoint, it makes much more sense to approach poverty and crime first. I would think it would be obvious that people with more valuable skills are less likely to be poor. All research shows that when average human capital goes up, so does productivity, wages, and general well-being. Your own little thoughts are just dead wrong. You must have missed the last 30 years of tremendous productivity growth with stagnating wages... Productivity has more components than human capital, and it is not required for wages and productivity to be perfectly correlated for education to be a worthwhile investment. Increasing human capital investment is an incredibly succesful method of reducing poverty, crime, and all sorts of other social costs. People who come from the most disadvantaged backgrounds benefit the most from increased human capital investment due to diminishing returns (meaning additional units of education are more valuable if you have had little). Not only can this be understood intuitively, it has been shown so many times emperically it really isn't worth debating. You forgot the part where he said education was competitive. If you give a bachelor degree to everyone, it will increase human capital and productivity, but it can have no or almost no impact on income distribution as long as the distinctions between class or groups stays the same (all the rich get a master to distinguish themselves). It has been done in France actually, with the 80% bachelor goal from Mitterand. Our labor productivity is one of the best of the world, but inequality and poverty are rising (despite a social safety net and a huge welfare program). Things are much more complicated in real life than in the "intuitive understanding" of the market. I am not particularly interested in debating the disparity between labor productivity and wages, since the issue is indeed complex. However, the idea that education is ineffective in reducing poverty and social problems is just absurd. Massive investment in human capital is how countries like south korea and taiwan have been able to graduate from third world low-labor cost economies with no natural resources to prosperous high skill economies, for example. Competition, or lack thereof, is exactly why higher levels of education result in more favorable returns to labor. Higher levels of education result in higher levels of specialisation, or heterogeneity, as opposed to the homogenous and easily exploitable homogenous labor offered by unskilled laborers. Heterogeneity in this sense allows workers to gain in monopoly power in their labor markets (less competition). "Human capital" is the new flavor of the decade for economists, after R&D in the 90s. I believe that policies that seeks to reduce poverty and income disparities are the most effective - policies that favor education for the poorests, maybe, but for a big part just simple policies that effectively redistribute wealth from richest to the poorest. I'm not very "educated" about the korean miracle, but I'm pretty sure that kind of policies existed at some point, and played a role. As a teacher myself I believe "education" is for a big part a hoax (a way to class people and permit distinction) - for exemple, experience is really important to be productive and it is always discarded in contemporary societies. Human capital is a lot bigger than education by the way : investing in infrastructures and health services is part of "human capital". The concept in itself is very vague to understand what happen in reality - for exemple if you look at boss' press, one of the major concern of firm in the occidental world is to find good workers, considering that - despite a global increase in "education" - it is harder and harder to find good workers. In sociology there is a lot of work about relative frustration (like Why men rebel from T. Gurr), from this perspective achieving higher education for the poorest neighborhood, but without objective chance to get to higher positions and income would result not in less violence but more. My response is a bit messy because that's a very broad topic and I don't have the patience to be structured in my answer. I do think education is often overemphasized when it comes to solving social problems and it certainly is not the only answer, but it to me it seems strange to attribute no importance to it at all, especially because it contradicts most emperical evidence. Achieving higher education but no opportunity to make use of it would indeed be quite a tragic situation, but is this really what happens in the real world? On the whole becoming more skilled, and making use of it would result in less frustration, even in the absence of higher wages because people value being competent at a difficult task, and being less replaceable (not a sociologist but I would think this is true, no?). The issue is that many of those that are stuck in poverty and high crime areas can't even get to the higher educational part, despite having all the opportunity required to do so (on paper). Meanwhile, of those that HAVE that education, many of them are struggling to make wages comparable of a high school graduate of 20 years ago. The "specialized" world you talked about earlier doesn't exist for a Starbucks barista with a college degree. Getting better educated may increase US productivity, but that apparently isn't reflected in median US incomes.
No, productivity has gone up and so has income.
Yes some people with a college degree ended up in a dead end job, but on average college degree holders have done just fine.
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On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. Show nested quote +St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you?
Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know.
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On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know.
Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it.
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On August 16 2014 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know. Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it.
Sorry for trying to remain objective?
Edit: sure not knowing can be annoying. But our annoyance isn't important. What matters is that an investigation occurs and that wrongdoing gets punished. That's going to take some time.
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I get annoyed by some of the activists like Jackson and others, who paint clearly biased and factually inaccurate pictures of the events. The truth comes out better when people don't continually spout untruths.
I mean, the lawyers for the family I at least expect those to present a distorted view of things; though even then it annoys me; the misuse of rhetoric.
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On August 16 2014 05:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know. Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it. Sorry for trying to remain objective?
Well you are failing IMO. An (informed) objective person could see more clearly what is happening and what is wrong with it.
It's not that you don't agree the teenager was (at this point) apparently murdered that shows your not very objective, it's that you didn't even know one of the main facts that casts the police handling of this situation as sketchy at minimum (among other things).
The obvious nature of the failures and diversions is part of the problem, suggesting we 'need to know more' about the incident itself, ignores the glaring problems we already know have transpired after the incident.
Good to know the accused officer has already fled town.
A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported.
Source
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LOS ANGELES (AP) — Los Angeles is considering turning voting ballots into lottery tickets.
With fewer than a fourth of voters showing up for recent local elections, the city's Ethics Commission voted to recommend that the City Council consider a cash-prize drawing as an incentive to vote.
Commission President Nathan Hochman said a pilot program should be used first to find out the number and size of prizes that would bump up turnout.
"Maybe it's $25,000 maybe it's $50,000," Hochman said, according to the Los Angeles Times (http://lat.ms/1uV1Ekw ). "That's where the pilot program comes in."
The Thursday vote was unanimous. The issue now moves to the Rules, Elections and Intergovernmental Relations Committee headed by City Council President Herb Wesson, who said he's intrigued by the idea but wants to hear what neighborhood councils and "legal beagles" think.
"I can't wait to have this conversation," he said, but added that he didn't want to be the "poster child" for the proposal.
It wasn't immediately clear whether there was any precedent in other cities or states for such a move, which brings with it questions of propriety and legality.
Source
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On August 16 2014 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know. Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it. Sorry for trying to remain objective? Well you are failing IMO. An (informed) objective person could see more clearly what is happening and what is wrong with it. + Show Spoiler +It's not that you don't agree the teenager was (at this point) apparently murdered that shows your not very objective, it's that you didn't even know one of the main facts that casts the police handling of this situation as sketchy at minimum (among other things). The obvious nature of the failures and diversions is part of the problem, suggesting we 'need to know more' about the incident itself, ignores the glaring problems we already know have transpired after the incident. Good to know the accused officer has already fled town. A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported. Source
Wow. And that's why this thread would be a lot better off without people like you in it.
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On August 16 2014 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Good to know the accused officer has already fled town. Show nested quote +A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported. Source
Wouldn't you leave a town that has riots whose goal is you? Alternatively you could of course pick up an automatic weapon and kill people trying to harm/kill you, would work out well...
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On August 16 2014 06:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution ? It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know. Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it. Sorry for trying to remain objective? Well you are failing IMO. An (informed) objective person could see more clearly what is happening and what is wrong with it. + Show Spoiler +It's not that you don't agree the teenager was (at this point) apparently murdered that shows your not very objective, it's that you didn't even know one of the main facts that casts the police handling of this situation as sketchy at minimum (among other things). The obvious nature of the failures and diversions is part of the problem, suggesting we 'need to know more' about the incident itself, ignores the glaring problems we already know have transpired after the incident. Good to know the accused officer has already fled town. A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported. Source Wow. And that's why this thread would be a lot better off without people like you in it.
The feeling is mutual. Did you actually disagree with anything I said or were you just upset I was right?
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On August 16 2014 06:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 06:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 05:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 16 2014 04:51 RCMDVA wrote:
[quote]
It puts a very different spin on things, and the circumstances of the stop, and the credibility of the witness if he's the #2 guy in the robbery that they are looking for. The release of the video and incident report was clearly bullshit. They even came out and said that the officer didn't know that he was a suspect and that it was totally unrelated. How about releasing how many times he got shot (or at least how many bullets the cop fired) or any explanation as to how he ended up dead ~30ft from where he was 'grabbing for the officers gun'? Ferguson PD looks really bad in their handling of this. Obviously if the state hadn't taken the policing out of their hands they were only going to make things worse. Can you link a source on the 30ft? Is that official? Yes, yes I can. St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar did say Brown was hit “multiple times” and died about 35 feet from the police car where the confrontation occurred. SourceThat change anything for you? Thanks for the information but no, why would it change anything? There's still a lot more we need to know. Figured you would say that. Not knowing is part of the problem. But, I know you think it's fine so I won't dwell on it. Sorry for trying to remain objective? Well you are failing IMO. An (informed) objective person could see more clearly what is happening and what is wrong with it. + Show Spoiler +It's not that you don't agree the teenager was (at this point) apparently murdered that shows your not very objective, it's that you didn't even know one of the main facts that casts the police handling of this situation as sketchy at minimum (among other things). The obvious nature of the failures and diversions is part of the problem, suggesting we 'need to know more' about the incident itself, ignores the glaring problems we already know have transpired after the incident. Good to know the accused officer has already fled town. A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported. Source Wow. And that's why this thread would be a lot better off without people like you in it. The feeling is mutual. Did you actually disagree with anything I said or were you just upset I was right?
Upset that you were right? I didn't call you wrong!
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On August 16 2014 06:20 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 06:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Good to know the accused officer has already fled town. A police officer stationed in front of Wilson’s home told the paper that “Wilson and his family left days ago,” USA Today reported. Source Wouldn't you leave a town that has riots whose goal is you? Alternatively you could of course pick up an automatic weapon and kill people trying to harm/kill you, would work out well...
Well I think he should of probably been charged based on three witness's accounts and therefore been in jail (safe from the violent few among many peaceful community members). But yeah I wouldn't want to stick around either.
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Canada11426 Posts
On August 16 2014 04:58 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 04:50 Falling wrote:
Petty theft = Death Penalty
Don't you know? No one is claiming that. Don't be dumb.
Jokes mang.
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On August 16 2014 05:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:34 aksfjh wrote:On August 16 2014 05:15 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution without trial ? On August 16 2014 04:07 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 01:00 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 00:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 00:00 aksfjh wrote:On August 15 2014 23:39 Crushinator wrote:On August 15 2014 23:07 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
Just adding a tiny bit of my own thoughts on this. Education is very much a competitive aspect, so improving education for everybody doesn't help with the problems of racial discrimination (intentional or not). Not only that, but it doesn't even really help with poverty (or crime for that matter) if the floor somebody can be paid is at or below the poverty level. Thus, from a policy standpoint, it makes much more sense to approach poverty and crime first. I would think it would be obvious that people with more valuable skills are less likely to be poor. All research shows that when average human capital goes up, so does productivity, wages, and general well-being. Your own little thoughts are just dead wrong. You must have missed the last 30 years of tremendous productivity growth with stagnating wages... Productivity has more components than human capital, and it is not required for wages and productivity to be perfectly correlated for education to be a worthwhile investment. Increasing human capital investment is an incredibly succesful method of reducing poverty, crime, and all sorts of other social costs. People who come from the most disadvantaged backgrounds benefit the most from increased human capital investment due to diminishing returns (meaning additional units of education are more valuable if you have had little). Not only can this be understood intuitively, it has been shown so many times emperically it really isn't worth debating. You forgot the part where he said education was competitive. If you give a bachelor degree to everyone, it will increase human capital and productivity, but it can have no or almost no impact on income distribution as long as the distinctions between class or groups stays the same (all the rich get a master to distinguish themselves). It has been done in France actually, with the 80% bachelor goal from Mitterand. Our labor productivity is one of the best of the world, but inequality and poverty are rising (despite a social safety net and a huge welfare program). Things are much more complicated in real life than in the "intuitive understanding" of the market. I am not particularly interested in debating the disparity between labor productivity and wages, since the issue is indeed complex. However, the idea that education is ineffective in reducing poverty and social problems is just absurd. Massive investment in human capital is how countries like south korea and taiwan have been able to graduate from third world low-labor cost economies with no natural resources to prosperous high skill economies, for example. Competition, or lack thereof, is exactly why higher levels of education result in more favorable returns to labor. Higher levels of education result in higher levels of specialisation, or heterogeneity, as opposed to the homogenous and easily exploitable homogenous labor offered by unskilled laborers. Heterogeneity in this sense allows workers to gain in monopoly power in their labor markets (less competition). "Human capital" is the new flavor of the decade for economists, after R&D in the 90s. I believe that policies that seeks to reduce poverty and income disparities are the most effective - policies that favor education for the poorests, maybe, but for a big part just simple policies that effectively redistribute wealth from richest to the poorest. I'm not very "educated" about the korean miracle, but I'm pretty sure that kind of policies existed at some point, and played a role. As a teacher myself I believe "education" is for a big part a hoax (a way to class people and permit distinction) - for exemple, experience is really important to be productive and it is always discarded in contemporary societies. Human capital is a lot bigger than education by the way : investing in infrastructures and health services is part of "human capital". The concept in itself is very vague to understand what happen in reality - for exemple if you look at boss' press, one of the major concern of firm in the occidental world is to find good workers, considering that - despite a global increase in "education" - it is harder and harder to find good workers. In sociology there is a lot of work about relative frustration (like Why men rebel from T. Gurr), from this perspective achieving higher education for the poorest neighborhood, but without objective chance to get to higher positions and income would result not in less violence but more. My response is a bit messy because that's a very broad topic and I don't have the patience to be structured in my answer. I do think education is often overemphasized when it comes to solving social problems and it certainly is not the only answer, but it to me it seems strange to attribute no importance to it at all, especially because it contradicts most emperical evidence. Achieving higher education but no opportunity to make use of it would indeed be quite a tragic situation, but is this really what happens in the real world? On the whole becoming more skilled, and making use of it would result in less frustration, even in the absence of higher wages because people value being competent at a difficult task, and being less replaceable (not a sociologist but I would think this is true, no?). The issue is that many of those that are stuck in poverty and high crime areas can't even get to the higher educational part, despite having all the opportunity required to do so (on paper). Meanwhile, of those that HAVE that education, many of them are struggling to make wages comparable of a high school graduate of 20 years ago. The "specialized" world you talked about earlier doesn't exist for a Starbucks barista with a college degree. Getting better educated may increase US productivity, but that apparently isn't reflected in median US incomes. No, productivity has gone up and so has income.
Income gains among the non 1% have stalled since the 80s, while productivity gains continue to climb.
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On August 16 2014 06:36 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 05:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:34 aksfjh wrote:On August 16 2014 05:15 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution without trial ? On August 16 2014 04:07 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 01:00 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 00:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 00:00 aksfjh wrote:On August 15 2014 23:39 Crushinator wrote:
[quote]
I would think it would be obvious that people with more valuable skills are less likely to be poor. All research shows that when average human capital goes up, so does productivity, wages, and general well-being. Your own little thoughts are just dead wrong. You must have missed the last 30 years of tremendous productivity growth with stagnating wages... Productivity has more components than human capital, and it is not required for wages and productivity to be perfectly correlated for education to be a worthwhile investment. Increasing human capital investment is an incredibly succesful method of reducing poverty, crime, and all sorts of other social costs. People who come from the most disadvantaged backgrounds benefit the most from increased human capital investment due to diminishing returns (meaning additional units of education are more valuable if you have had little). Not only can this be understood intuitively, it has been shown so many times emperically it really isn't worth debating. You forgot the part where he said education was competitive. If you give a bachelor degree to everyone, it will increase human capital and productivity, but it can have no or almost no impact on income distribution as long as the distinctions between class or groups stays the same (all the rich get a master to distinguish themselves). It has been done in France actually, with the 80% bachelor goal from Mitterand. Our labor productivity is one of the best of the world, but inequality and poverty are rising (despite a social safety net and a huge welfare program). Things are much more complicated in real life than in the "intuitive understanding" of the market. I am not particularly interested in debating the disparity between labor productivity and wages, since the issue is indeed complex. However, the idea that education is ineffective in reducing poverty and social problems is just absurd. Massive investment in human capital is how countries like south korea and taiwan have been able to graduate from third world low-labor cost economies with no natural resources to prosperous high skill economies, for example. Competition, or lack thereof, is exactly why higher levels of education result in more favorable returns to labor. Higher levels of education result in higher levels of specialisation, or heterogeneity, as opposed to the homogenous and easily exploitable homogenous labor offered by unskilled laborers. Heterogeneity in this sense allows workers to gain in monopoly power in their labor markets (less competition). "Human capital" is the new flavor of the decade for economists, after R&D in the 90s. I believe that policies that seeks to reduce poverty and income disparities are the most effective - policies that favor education for the poorests, maybe, but for a big part just simple policies that effectively redistribute wealth from richest to the poorest. I'm not very "educated" about the korean miracle, but I'm pretty sure that kind of policies existed at some point, and played a role. As a teacher myself I believe "education" is for a big part a hoax (a way to class people and permit distinction) - for exemple, experience is really important to be productive and it is always discarded in contemporary societies. Human capital is a lot bigger than education by the way : investing in infrastructures and health services is part of "human capital". The concept in itself is very vague to understand what happen in reality - for exemple if you look at boss' press, one of the major concern of firm in the occidental world is to find good workers, considering that - despite a global increase in "education" - it is harder and harder to find good workers. In sociology there is a lot of work about relative frustration (like Why men rebel from T. Gurr), from this perspective achieving higher education for the poorest neighborhood, but without objective chance to get to higher positions and income would result not in less violence but more. My response is a bit messy because that's a very broad topic and I don't have the patience to be structured in my answer. I do think education is often overemphasized when it comes to solving social problems and it certainly is not the only answer, but it to me it seems strange to attribute no importance to it at all, especially because it contradicts most emperical evidence. Achieving higher education but no opportunity to make use of it would indeed be quite a tragic situation, but is this really what happens in the real world? On the whole becoming more skilled, and making use of it would result in less frustration, even in the absence of higher wages because people value being competent at a difficult task, and being less replaceable (not a sociologist but I would think this is true, no?). The issue is that many of those that are stuck in poverty and high crime areas can't even get to the higher educational part, despite having all the opportunity required to do so (on paper). Meanwhile, of those that HAVE that education, many of them are struggling to make wages comparable of a high school graduate of 20 years ago. The "specialized" world you talked about earlier doesn't exist for a Starbucks barista with a college degree. Getting better educated may increase US productivity, but that apparently isn't reflected in median US incomes. No, productivity has gone up and so has income. Income gains among the non 1% have stalled since the 80s, while productivity gains continue to climb.
Not true, I've made many posts on this. For example:
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72070179/Income%20groups.PNG)
The 1% have done much better than average, but incomes have risen over a wide swath of the population.
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On August 16 2014 06:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 06:36 Sub40APM wrote:On August 16 2014 05:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:34 aksfjh wrote:On August 16 2014 05:15 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution without trial ? On August 16 2014 04:07 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 01:00 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 00:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 00:00 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
You must have missed the last 30 years of tremendous productivity growth with stagnating wages... Productivity has more components than human capital, and it is not required for wages and productivity to be perfectly correlated for education to be a worthwhile investment. Increasing human capital investment is an incredibly succesful method of reducing poverty, crime, and all sorts of other social costs. People who come from the most disadvantaged backgrounds benefit the most from increased human capital investment due to diminishing returns (meaning additional units of education are more valuable if you have had little). Not only can this be understood intuitively, it has been shown so many times emperically it really isn't worth debating. You forgot the part where he said education was competitive. If you give a bachelor degree to everyone, it will increase human capital and productivity, but it can have no or almost no impact on income distribution as long as the distinctions between class or groups stays the same (all the rich get a master to distinguish themselves). It has been done in France actually, with the 80% bachelor goal from Mitterand. Our labor productivity is one of the best of the world, but inequality and poverty are rising (despite a social safety net and a huge welfare program). Things are much more complicated in real life than in the "intuitive understanding" of the market. I am not particularly interested in debating the disparity between labor productivity and wages, since the issue is indeed complex. However, the idea that education is ineffective in reducing poverty and social problems is just absurd. Massive investment in human capital is how countries like south korea and taiwan have been able to graduate from third world low-labor cost economies with no natural resources to prosperous high skill economies, for example. Competition, or lack thereof, is exactly why higher levels of education result in more favorable returns to labor. Higher levels of education result in higher levels of specialisation, or heterogeneity, as opposed to the homogenous and easily exploitable homogenous labor offered by unskilled laborers. Heterogeneity in this sense allows workers to gain in monopoly power in their labor markets (less competition). "Human capital" is the new flavor of the decade for economists, after R&D in the 90s. I believe that policies that seeks to reduce poverty and income disparities are the most effective - policies that favor education for the poorests, maybe, but for a big part just simple policies that effectively redistribute wealth from richest to the poorest. I'm not very "educated" about the korean miracle, but I'm pretty sure that kind of policies existed at some point, and played a role. As a teacher myself I believe "education" is for a big part a hoax (a way to class people and permit distinction) - for exemple, experience is really important to be productive and it is always discarded in contemporary societies. Human capital is a lot bigger than education by the way : investing in infrastructures and health services is part of "human capital". The concept in itself is very vague to understand what happen in reality - for exemple if you look at boss' press, one of the major concern of firm in the occidental world is to find good workers, considering that - despite a global increase in "education" - it is harder and harder to find good workers. In sociology there is a lot of work about relative frustration (like Why men rebel from T. Gurr), from this perspective achieving higher education for the poorest neighborhood, but without objective chance to get to higher positions and income would result not in less violence but more. My response is a bit messy because that's a very broad topic and I don't have the patience to be structured in my answer. I do think education is often overemphasized when it comes to solving social problems and it certainly is not the only answer, but it to me it seems strange to attribute no importance to it at all, especially because it contradicts most emperical evidence. Achieving higher education but no opportunity to make use of it would indeed be quite a tragic situation, but is this really what happens in the real world? On the whole becoming more skilled, and making use of it would result in less frustration, even in the absence of higher wages because people value being competent at a difficult task, and being less replaceable (not a sociologist but I would think this is true, no?). The issue is that many of those that are stuck in poverty and high crime areas can't even get to the higher educational part, despite having all the opportunity required to do so (on paper). Meanwhile, of those that HAVE that education, many of them are struggling to make wages comparable of a high school graduate of 20 years ago. The "specialized" world you talked about earlier doesn't exist for a Starbucks barista with a college degree. Getting better educated may increase US productivity, but that apparently isn't reflected in median US incomes. No, productivity has gone up and so has income. Income gains among the non 1% have stalled since the 80s, while productivity gains continue to climb. Not true, I've made many posts on this. For example: The 1% have done much better than average, but incomes have risen over a wide swath of the population.
nice graph example of what exponential growth looks like.
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On August 16 2014 03:07 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 23:06 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 13:23 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 12:59 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 12:42 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 11:02 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 05:22 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 04:59 Roswell wrote:Blacks kill white people at a much higher rate than the reverse and for black victims almost 90% of the offenders are black thttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/emselves. So who cares? If this policeman is a murderer then so be it, no need to start acting like this is the 1800s. Of 2011 homicides... (Fbi web, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6 ) 3127 were white offenders 2694 were black offenders Yet blacks make up less than 10% of the population. Oh my god, we should start reversing our entire livelihoods and get all lame. I get that this is a policeman and things are different, but judging from theguardian it would appear unarmed blacks are being killed by the dozens every day by the great evil white people. Stupid shit to get riled up at. People are people. Race card is lamer than farcry 3s multiplayer Don't be dumb. Over policing of black communities specifically in Missouri goes way beyond this one incident. Heres the data as collected by the States Attorney General s office. http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ Oh, sorry I thought we were talking about homicides not if someone was speeding too fast. Fact remains, black on black homicide rates are absurd, (as are any where blacks are the offenders.) If you want to talk about which car insurance hispanics drive vs hawaiian then that is cool though. This is a social and cultural issue, poorer people in urban areas tend to commit more crime, unfortunately blacks represent a great portion of those statistics. There are bigger evils happening in america than 4/20,000 homicides annually occurring where a controversial he said she said between a white offender and a black victim. For a country moving away from superstition it sure is funny that somehow someway "If a person kills a member of a different race, the evil neutrons and energy manifests itself greater, and that perpetrator must be punished more, thus sayeth the emperor of black people, the honorable and talented mr sharpton." Except we weren't talking about homicide. At least I wasn't. I was talking about the way police treat black communities differently. That's what the Ferguson protests are about. A white policeman shooting an unarmed black teenager is just the incident that brought these long lingering racial tensions to the surface. It's not about white on black violence. It's about a white police force that treats the black community its supposed to be serving antagonistically. That's why the racial profiling data is relevant. It is hard evidence that black people are targeted by the mostly white police more aggressively than other racial groups. It's not like you need the data to know that though. For the people who live there, it's obvious. So yeah, Don't be dumb. You don't seem to get what this is about. Or maybe you're just unclear in your point. Maybe you believe that racial profiling and aggressive policing of black neighborhoods is warranted and you're pointing to homicide statistics to make that point. I would disagree. I have different values. Well you were the one randomly throwing in fucking driving arrests, when I was solely talking about homicides. I still think, no one should give a rats ass about this event. Its like hyping up a mediocre movie, you are only feeding the fire. By the time this event/trial ends, we will have 300 black on black homicides. But the narrative here would make a much better movie than those other deaths. Ok. I'm confused. What exactly is your point? I already explained why those traffic stops are relevant to this discussion. Best I can tell your position is: Because black people kill each other all the time nobody should care about this one time a white guy killed a black guy. My point was that people care about this incident because its representative of a larger issue about the how the police treat black people in Ferguson specifically, and Missouri more broadly. That traffic stop data is evidence of that police behavior. What don't you get? I didnt know this young man was killed for a routine traffic stop. All you care about is the pointless aftermath. We dont know if this was racially charged, we just dont. So you're either an idiot or a deliberate troll. Did you see me write that Michael Brown was killed for a traffic stop? Do you really not understand how racial profiling data is relevant to a discussion about police behavior with regards to race? Do you really believe the aftermath of this event is pointless? It barely matters if the shooting was racially charged or not. That's not what this is really about. As I've explained. Where do you disagree? What aren't you following?
And yet waiting for evidence is appalling to ask for, why wait when you can judge right away? You do not know. You are still assuming things that have no basis in this case, (yet.)
This scenario is damning. At first this young man is portrayed as a saint by those protesting, and did no wrong. Accusing the common sense folk of being oblivious to the oh so important racial profiling, and regarding any other notion as meaningless or not worthy of discussion. Now we have shots of the young man clearly committing a crime, and instead of again waiting for more evidence, you all cast aside any idea of wrongdoing and instead blame the police for shooting him jokingly as a petty crime. I tell you, even if there was an iphone video of the young man reachin inside the cops car and punching the officer, you would still not see the truth. It wont matter how much evidence is thrown at your face, snapping you in the temples, because the narrative is and will always be too strong.
Common sense. Innocent until proven guilty. The same applies to the young victim.
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On August 16 2014 06:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 06:36 Sub40APM wrote:On August 16 2014 05:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 16 2014 05:34 aksfjh wrote:On August 16 2014 05:15 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 04:46 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 04:21 RCMDVA wrote:Wow. Didn't expect for the police to have a QuickTrip video of Mike Brown stealing $50 worth of cigars and pushing the store owner. (guy who got shot in Ferguson, MO) 6ft4 292 lbs is pretty hard to miss(identify). This is going to become a bigger cluster now. So wow... the first business looted and torched, and spray painted with "Snitches get stitches"... was the store he allegedly robbed? http://kplr11.com/2014/08/11/snitches-get-stitches-message-spray-painted-on-burned-out-quiktrip/And now we know why Obama stayed quiet on this one. So stealing 50 bucks worth of cigars justify an execution without trial ? On August 16 2014 04:07 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 01:00 WhiteDog wrote:On August 16 2014 00:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 16 2014 00:00 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
You must have missed the last 30 years of tremendous productivity growth with stagnating wages... Productivity has more components than human capital, and it is not required for wages and productivity to be perfectly correlated for education to be a worthwhile investment. Increasing human capital investment is an incredibly succesful method of reducing poverty, crime, and all sorts of other social costs. People who come from the most disadvantaged backgrounds benefit the most from increased human capital investment due to diminishing returns (meaning additional units of education are more valuable if you have had little). Not only can this be understood intuitively, it has been shown so many times emperically it really isn't worth debating. You forgot the part where he said education was competitive. If you give a bachelor degree to everyone, it will increase human capital and productivity, but it can have no or almost no impact on income distribution as long as the distinctions between class or groups stays the same (all the rich get a master to distinguish themselves). It has been done in France actually, with the 80% bachelor goal from Mitterand. Our labor productivity is one of the best of the world, but inequality and poverty are rising (despite a social safety net and a huge welfare program). Things are much more complicated in real life than in the "intuitive understanding" of the market. I am not particularly interested in debating the disparity between labor productivity and wages, since the issue is indeed complex. However, the idea that education is ineffective in reducing poverty and social problems is just absurd. Massive investment in human capital is how countries like south korea and taiwan have been able to graduate from third world low-labor cost economies with no natural resources to prosperous high skill economies, for example. Competition, or lack thereof, is exactly why higher levels of education result in more favorable returns to labor. Higher levels of education result in higher levels of specialisation, or heterogeneity, as opposed to the homogenous and easily exploitable homogenous labor offered by unskilled laborers. Heterogeneity in this sense allows workers to gain in monopoly power in their labor markets (less competition). "Human capital" is the new flavor of the decade for economists, after R&D in the 90s. I believe that policies that seeks to reduce poverty and income disparities are the most effective - policies that favor education for the poorests, maybe, but for a big part just simple policies that effectively redistribute wealth from richest to the poorest. I'm not very "educated" about the korean miracle, but I'm pretty sure that kind of policies existed at some point, and played a role. As a teacher myself I believe "education" is for a big part a hoax (a way to class people and permit distinction) - for exemple, experience is really important to be productive and it is always discarded in contemporary societies. Human capital is a lot bigger than education by the way : investing in infrastructures and health services is part of "human capital". The concept in itself is very vague to understand what happen in reality - for exemple if you look at boss' press, one of the major concern of firm in the occidental world is to find good workers, considering that - despite a global increase in "education" - it is harder and harder to find good workers. In sociology there is a lot of work about relative frustration (like Why men rebel from T. Gurr), from this perspective achieving higher education for the poorest neighborhood, but without objective chance to get to higher positions and income would result not in less violence but more. My response is a bit messy because that's a very broad topic and I don't have the patience to be structured in my answer. I do think education is often overemphasized when it comes to solving social problems and it certainly is not the only answer, but it to me it seems strange to attribute no importance to it at all, especially because it contradicts most emperical evidence. Achieving higher education but no opportunity to make use of it would indeed be quite a tragic situation, but is this really what happens in the real world? On the whole becoming more skilled, and making use of it would result in less frustration, even in the absence of higher wages because people value being competent at a difficult task, and being less replaceable (not a sociologist but I would think this is true, no?). The issue is that many of those that are stuck in poverty and high crime areas can't even get to the higher educational part, despite having all the opportunity required to do so (on paper). Meanwhile, of those that HAVE that education, many of them are struggling to make wages comparable of a high school graduate of 20 years ago. The "specialized" world you talked about earlier doesn't exist for a Starbucks barista with a college degree. Getting better educated may increase US productivity, but that apparently isn't reflected in median US incomes. No, productivity has gone up and so has income. Income gains among the non 1% have stalled since the 80s, while productivity gains continue to climb. Not true, I've made many posts on this. For example: The 1% have done much better than average, but incomes have risen over a wide swath of the population.
And you think you're graph prove that what we were talking about is wrong ? lol
![[image loading]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/04/28/opinion/042812krugman2/042812krugman2-blog480.jpg)
You don't see the gap ?
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/where-the-productivity-went/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
A key to understanding this growth of income inequality—and the disappointing increases in workers’ wages and compensation and middle-class incomes—is understanding the divergence of pay and productivity. Productivity growth has risen substantially over the last few decades but the hourly compensation of the typical worker has seen much more modest growth, especially in the last 10 years or so. The gap between productivity and the compensation growth for the typical worker has been larger in the “lost decade” since the early 2000s than at any point in the post-World War II period. In contrast, productivity and the compensation of the typical worker grew in tandem over the early postwar period until the 1970s.
![[image loading]](http://s3.epi.org/files/2012/ib330-figureA.png.538)
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib330-productivity-vs-compensation/
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On August 16 2014 05:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher education doesn't equal opportunity. Here in Germany college degree rates are extremely low.( about 20% for people between age 25-35, compared to about 40% in most other developed countries), still I don't think the danger of ending up in poverty especially for the people who don't have a college degree here is higher than in the US.
I think the problem with the US is that there is no middle-ground. Either you get a fancy degree with tens of thousands of dollars in debt in some field that's not completely overcrowded, or it's going to be not so easy for you.
When I said Education (IMO) is the place to start I wasn't implying everyone needs to go to college. Surely some will and hopefully they go for a degree that is useful to the outside world. But it starts at the elementary school level, you've got to give them a good base. Hopefully with that good base if they are interested in the more academic side of things they gravitate to something like STEM, which currently is virtually untouched in poorer areas. Hopefully with a better education more start small businesses which employ more people in their area. If schools catered more to a kids area of interest rather than a one size fits all system a kid would have access to classes where he might excel that are outside of the current norm, like trade related classes. There are a lot of trade jobs out there available, many of which pay vastly more than you'll get from a worthless college degree. Learning a trade can easily turn into you running your own carpentry business or car repair shop. Not everyone needs to go to college but a good education can open your eyes and your mind to whats out there besides crime.
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On August 16 2014 06:50 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 03:07 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 23:06 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 13:23 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 12:59 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 12:42 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 11:02 Roswell wrote:On August 15 2014 05:22 sc2isnotdying wrote:On August 15 2014 04:59 Roswell wrote:Blacks kill white people at a much higher rate than the reverse and for black victims almost 90% of the offenders are black thttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ttp://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/emselves. So who cares? If this policeman is a murderer then so be it, no need to start acting like this is the 1800s. Of 2011 homicides... (Fbi web, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6 ) 3127 were white offenders 2694 were black offenders Yet blacks make up less than 10% of the population. Oh my god, we should start reversing our entire livelihoods and get all lame. I get that this is a policeman and things are different, but judging from theguardian it would appear unarmed blacks are being killed by the dozens every day by the great evil white people. Stupid shit to get riled up at. People are people. Race card is lamer than farcry 3s multiplayer Don't be dumb. Over policing of black communities specifically in Missouri goes way beyond this one incident. Heres the data as collected by the States Attorney General s office. http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/ Oh, sorry I thought we were talking about homicides not if someone was speeding too fast. Fact remains, black on black homicide rates are absurd, (as are any where blacks are the offenders.) If you want to talk about which car insurance hispanics drive vs hawaiian then that is cool though. This is a social and cultural issue, poorer people in urban areas tend to commit more crime, unfortunately blacks represent a great portion of those statistics. There are bigger evils happening in america than 4/20,000 homicides annually occurring where a controversial he said she said between a white offender and a black victim. For a country moving away from superstition it sure is funny that somehow someway "If a person kills a member of a different race, the evil neutrons and energy manifests itself greater, and that perpetrator must be punished more, thus sayeth the emperor of black people, the honorable and talented mr sharpton." Except we weren't talking about homicide. At least I wasn't. I was talking about the way police treat black communities differently. That's what the Ferguson protests are about. A white policeman shooting an unarmed black teenager is just the incident that brought these long lingering racial tensions to the surface. It's not about white on black violence. It's about a white police force that treats the black community its supposed to be serving antagonistically. That's why the racial profiling data is relevant. It is hard evidence that black people are targeted by the mostly white police more aggressively than other racial groups. It's not like you need the data to know that though. For the people who live there, it's obvious. So yeah, Don't be dumb. You don't seem to get what this is about. Or maybe you're just unclear in your point. Maybe you believe that racial profiling and aggressive policing of black neighborhoods is warranted and you're pointing to homicide statistics to make that point. I would disagree. I have different values. Well you were the one randomly throwing in fucking driving arrests, when I was solely talking about homicides. I still think, no one should give a rats ass about this event. Its like hyping up a mediocre movie, you are only feeding the fire. By the time this event/trial ends, we will have 300 black on black homicides. But the narrative here would make a much better movie than those other deaths. Ok. I'm confused. What exactly is your point? I already explained why those traffic stops are relevant to this discussion. Best I can tell your position is: Because black people kill each other all the time nobody should care about this one time a white guy killed a black guy. My point was that people care about this incident because its representative of a larger issue about the how the police treat black people in Ferguson specifically, and Missouri more broadly. That traffic stop data is evidence of that police behavior. What don't you get? I didnt know this young man was killed for a routine traffic stop. All you care about is the pointless aftermath. We dont know if this was racially charged, we just dont. So you're either an idiot or a deliberate troll. Did you see me write that Michael Brown was killed for a traffic stop? Do you really not understand how racial profiling data is relevant to a discussion about police behavior with regards to race? Do you really believe the aftermath of this event is pointless? It barely matters if the shooting was racially charged or not. That's not what this is really about. As I've explained. Where do you disagree? What aren't you following? And yet waiting for evidence is appalling to ask for, why wait when you can judge right away? You do not know. You are still assuming things that have no basis in this case, (yet.) This scenario is damning. At first this young man is portrayed as a saint by those protesting, and did no wrong. Accusing the common sense folk of being oblivious to the oh so important racial profiling, and regarding any other notion as meaningless or not worthy of discussion. Now we have shots of the young man clearly committing a crime, and instead of again waiting for more evidence, you all cast aside any idea of wrongdoing and instead blame the police for shooting him jokingly as a petty crime. I tell you, even if there was an iphone video of the young man reachin inside the cops car and punching the officer, you would still not see the truth. It wont matter how much evidence is thrown at your face, snapping you in the temples, because the narrative is and will always be too strong. Common sense. Innocent until proven guilty. The same applies to the young victim.
Learn to follow a conversation. You're responding to things I have not written. This is something you've been doing. You're an idiot.
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