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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1210

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 12 2014 21:22 GMT
#24181
On August 12 2014 09:49 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2014 07:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 12 2014 07:17 aksfjh wrote:
On August 12 2014 07:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 12 2014 05:43 Wolfstan wrote:
I am hoping you guys do away with the populist candidates. A pro business leaning president is exactly what the doctor ordered.

We could use a pro-business Congress as well.

A Congress that does nothing is, by default, a pro-business Congress...

Generally, yes, but not always. The business community was pretty pissed over debt default concerns and the shut down. Most would also like to see the Keystone pipeline approved, crude exports allowed (already done?), greater immigration, better infrastructure, etc.

Now that they are doing the bare minimum (no more major debt/budget crises), they are pro-business. That doesn't mean there isn't MORE that could be done to help business, but with the way businesses evolve around regulations and taxes, government doing nothing is a huge boon to (big) business.

Well, I'll just have to disagree with that. It's the conventional wisdom but I don't think it's really true. A do-nothing Congress doesn't stop agencies from extending their regulatory reach, and sometimes (as is the case with oil rail cars now) a delay in regulations is bad for business. And sure, sometimes a business can weasel around a rule as with tax inversions, but that kind of activity isn't what businesses really want to be spending their resources on.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 12 2014 23:18 GMT
#24182
As the coal industry suffers through year after disappointing year in the U.S, there’s a growing divide in coal country over the reasons behind its current economic predicament. Some blame the federal government and its regulations. Others blame coal companies that have destroyed the environment, and then moved on to the next town.

One thing is clear: For the people who relied on coal as a job provider, the situation is dire, and getting worse every day.

“There’s been a big depopulation in the area. It’s really bad,” said Chuck Nelson, a 58-year-old resident of Glen Daniel, West Virginia, who worked in coal mines for 30 years and now campaigns to hold coal companies responsible for environmental damage. “This used to be a thriving community.”

The coal industry’s struggles picked up steam in the last month, with a spate of announcements about closing coal-fired power plants and coal mines, meaning big layoffs.

The economic hurt caused by coal’s decline has set off a blame game in Washington and in coal country, with some saying that the Environmental Protection Agency under President Barack Obama has overstepped its bounds by instituting tough new anti-pollution measures, and others saying coal’s decline had more to do with market forces than regulation, and that it’s high time the U.S. found other ways to employ those who once depended on coal for their incomes.

Regardless of the reasons, the hurt is real.

Last week Alpha Natural Resources announced it would close its Emerald Mine in Greene County, Pennsylvania, costing the area 500 jobs. It came the same week that NRG Energy said it would eliminate 250 jobs at coal facilities across Illinois. The week prior, Alabama Power announced it would close two coal power plants in the state, affecting about 180 workers. And a day before that, Alpha said it would lay off 1,100 workers at its surface mining operations in West Virginia.The increase in coal plant closures, coupled with new federal regulations that will make burning coal potentially less profitable than ever, angered some unions and the miners they represent. Hundreds of workers took to the streets of Pittsburgh on July 29 to voice their concern for an industry that provides nearly 40 percent of the U.S. energy supply.

“Hey, hey, EPA, don't take our jobs away,” the miners chanted.

Their calls echoed the press releases of coal companies in the past few months, which have laid blame for the industry’s decline on Obama and the EPA. The agency recently announced regulations that would reduce the country’s greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent by 2030 from 2005 levels. While the regulations are not set in stone, many believe they essentially mean no new coal power plants will be built in the United States, and existing ones may be gradually phased out.

“The proposed rules are simply not workable,” said Chris Hamilton, senior vice president of the West Virginia Coal Association. “People are losing good paying jobs that are sustaining a lot of families.”

But even if the EPA rolled back its rules tomorrow, it’s unclear whether many of the coal industry’s jobs could be saved. The industry has long been in decline.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
August 12 2014 23:22 GMT
#24183
I'm not convinced that the coal industry isn't a negative for that region... the state ranks 48th in GDP per capita.
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
August 13 2014 00:04 GMT
#24184
On August 13 2014 06:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2014 09:49 aksfjh wrote:
On August 12 2014 07:27 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 12 2014 07:17 aksfjh wrote:
On August 12 2014 07:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 12 2014 05:43 Wolfstan wrote:
I am hoping you guys do away with the populist candidates. A pro business leaning president is exactly what the doctor ordered.

We could use a pro-business Congress as well.

A Congress that does nothing is, by default, a pro-business Congress...

Generally, yes, but not always. The business community was pretty pissed over debt default concerns and the shut down. Most would also like to see the Keystone pipeline approved, crude exports allowed (already done?), greater immigration, better infrastructure, etc.

Now that they are doing the bare minimum (no more major debt/budget crises), they are pro-business. That doesn't mean there isn't MORE that could be done to help business, but with the way businesses evolve around regulations and taxes, government doing nothing is a huge boon to (big) business.

Well, I'll just have to disagree with that. It's the conventional wisdom but I don't think it's really true. A do-nothing Congress doesn't stop agencies from extending their regulatory reach, and sometimes (as is the case with oil rail cars now) a delay in regulations is bad for business. And sure, sometimes a business can weasel around a rule as with tax inversions, but that kind of activity isn't what businesses really want to be spending their resources on.


Agreed. Government inaction hurts businesses, all kinds of them, more than it helps. Regulatory policies, the extend of government outreach, and any changes to laws are all external factors that can severely impact the business value because they create new opportunity for business innovations. These factors must be known to businesses so that they can formulate the business strategies that will ensure their survival. That's why CEOs make the money that they make.
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
August 13 2014 00:10 GMT
#24185
On August 13 2014 05:16 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 04:18 sc2isnotdying wrote:
On August 12 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:
On August 12 2014 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:
On August 12 2014 08:49 Introvert wrote:
This is another page to bookmark to compare to what actually happens in 2016.

Bush vs Clinton would not only suck, but it'd be incredibly boring. Since we're all in the prediction/prognostication business, I predict a super low turnout, should that be the race.

Ill take the other side of that bet. Obama's election engineers seemed to have mastered the art of voter turnout for presidential elections.


I'll take it. You bring up a good point, but I think that by the time November 2016 comes about, everyone will have had quite enough. I hope.


On August 12 2014 11:06 jellyjello wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:16 radscorpion9 wrote:
On August 12 2014 03:38 Livelovedie wrote:
I think the Tea Party has shifted the conversation and America to the right though, even more than it was going. For all this talk about communism, the last two democratic presidents have been far from progressive.

Its actually pretty exciting. I'm so curious what the next election is going to look like! Will there even be a moderate like Romney around, or will it be a really crazy debate with a genuine tea partier?? We might have some really funny and "unique" presidential debates coming up. And then we can all watch Fox news when their candidate bombs and they start yelling and throwing things


I am really hoping Rand Paul and Rick Perry are front runners for a while maybe even some Bachmann. No doubt there will be some epic clips that will be historically hilarious and staggeringly shocking for generations to come. (Like republicans cheering putting people to death or letting them die in the streets).

It'll be boring if Jeb locks it up early and we have another Bush v Clinton election...



Jeb has zero chance at winning the GOP primary. Everyone knows the entire Bush family is a sheep in disguise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But fool me thrice?!

I can't believe people are putting Bachmann and the likes (phony talk show style politicians) with legitimate conservatives like Rand Paul. But, whoever wins the next presidential election, the quality of past achievements is going to be crucial. For that reason alone, I'd vote for a governor rather than someone from the Senate. I wouldn't mind Christie, although he is far from being conservative, only because he's proven that he can bridge the gap and get things done politically. Or Jindal from Louisiana, or Kasich from Ohio. Leadership from the White House is what this country needs the most right now.



I'm not convinced Jeb will be the nominee either, but it can be hard to say. With Christie's stock damaged, he may just jump in- and who knows after that?

It will be interesting to see how Rand does with the establishment. He's established his credentials as a conservative, but he does (and avoids doing) little things here and there that seem to indicate he's trying to avoid pulling a Ted Cruz (enraging the ones with all the money.)


I think Rand has an outside chance of winning the GOP nomination, but I just can't see him winning the general election. He holds or at least has held in the past some pretty fringe positions. Being against the part of the civil rights act that desegregated lunch counters comes to mind. Barring something unexpected, I don't imagine he'll be the guy that gets the GOP establishment endorsement. He's a long shot, which is my point but it kind of seems like everybody in the GOP is a long shot right now. It's hard to imagine a Bush winning a national election and Christie's bridge scandal looks like it will be a tough obstacle to overcome. Somebody's got to win that nomination though. I'm expecting a wild race and that's the only prediction I feel comfortable making.


The Bush thing would be insane, and everybody would hate a Bush v Clinton race, but he is the most moderate Republican prospect on offer. As for Christie, it's an uphill battle, but if we've all decided to ignore the *many* Clinton scandals on the grounds she was never directly implicated, I think Christie could manage the same.


I feel that Bush is already a done deal not primarily because of what he stands for, but more so because of his predecessors. Christie is not out yet, far from it, especially when Clinton can get away with all of her baggage. Like you said, there is a potential to turn the bridge scandal to his advantage if he successfully shape it as a direct comparison to all those scandals from the Obama administration. His biggest obstacle would be fighting the mainstream media to uphold his image as someone trustworthy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
August 13 2014 00:37 GMT
#24186
On August 13 2014 09:10 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 05:16 Yoav wrote:
On August 13 2014 04:18 sc2isnotdying wrote:
On August 12 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:
On August 12 2014 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:
On August 12 2014 08:49 Introvert wrote:
This is another page to bookmark to compare to what actually happens in 2016.

Bush vs Clinton would not only suck, but it'd be incredibly boring. Since we're all in the prediction/prognostication business, I predict a super low turnout, should that be the race.

Ill take the other side of that bet. Obama's election engineers seemed to have mastered the art of voter turnout for presidential elections.


I'll take it. You bring up a good point, but I think that by the time November 2016 comes about, everyone will have had quite enough. I hope.


On August 12 2014 11:06 jellyjello wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:16 radscorpion9 wrote:
On August 12 2014 03:38 Livelovedie wrote:
I think the Tea Party has shifted the conversation and America to the right though, even more than it was going. For all this talk about communism, the last two democratic presidents have been far from progressive.

Its actually pretty exciting. I'm so curious what the next election is going to look like! Will there even be a moderate like Romney around, or will it be a really crazy debate with a genuine tea partier?? We might have some really funny and "unique" presidential debates coming up. And then we can all watch Fox news when their candidate bombs and they start yelling and throwing things


I am really hoping Rand Paul and Rick Perry are front runners for a while maybe even some Bachmann. No doubt there will be some epic clips that will be historically hilarious and staggeringly shocking for generations to come. (Like republicans cheering putting people to death or letting them die in the streets).

It'll be boring if Jeb locks it up early and we have another Bush v Clinton election...



Jeb has zero chance at winning the GOP primary. Everyone knows the entire Bush family is a sheep in disguise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But fool me thrice?!

I can't believe people are putting Bachmann and the likes (phony talk show style politicians) with legitimate conservatives like Rand Paul. But, whoever wins the next presidential election, the quality of past achievements is going to be crucial. For that reason alone, I'd vote for a governor rather than someone from the Senate. I wouldn't mind Christie, although he is far from being conservative, only because he's proven that he can bridge the gap and get things done politically. Or Jindal from Louisiana, or Kasich from Ohio. Leadership from the White House is what this country needs the most right now.



I'm not convinced Jeb will be the nominee either, but it can be hard to say. With Christie's stock damaged, he may just jump in- and who knows after that?

It will be interesting to see how Rand does with the establishment. He's established his credentials as a conservative, but he does (and avoids doing) little things here and there that seem to indicate he's trying to avoid pulling a Ted Cruz (enraging the ones with all the money.)


I think Rand has an outside chance of winning the GOP nomination, but I just can't see him winning the general election. He holds or at least has held in the past some pretty fringe positions. Being against the part of the civil rights act that desegregated lunch counters comes to mind. Barring something unexpected, I don't imagine he'll be the guy that gets the GOP establishment endorsement. He's a long shot, which is my point but it kind of seems like everybody in the GOP is a long shot right now. It's hard to imagine a Bush winning a national election and Christie's bridge scandal looks like it will be a tough obstacle to overcome. Somebody's got to win that nomination though. I'm expecting a wild race and that's the only prediction I feel comfortable making.


The Bush thing would be insane, and everybody would hate a Bush v Clinton race, but he is the most moderate Republican prospect on offer. As for Christie, it's an uphill battle, but if we've all decided to ignore the *many* Clinton scandals on the grounds she was never directly implicated, I think Christie could manage the same.


I feel that Bush is already a done deal not primarily because of what he stands for, but more so because of his predecessors. Christie is not out yet, far from it, especially when Clinton can get away with all of her baggage. Like you said, there is a potential to turn the bridge scandal to his advantage if he successfully shape it as a direct comparison to all those scandals from the Obama administration. His biggest obstacle would be fighting the mainstream media to uphold his image as someone trustworthy.



The odd-makers seem to think Rubio and Jeb are strong favorites. I guess they know something about how this immigration debate is likely to pan out that the rest of us are missing?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
August 13 2014 00:46 GMT
#24187
Too bad those jackasses at the commodities futures trading commission shut down intrade.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
August 13 2014 01:17 GMT
#24188
On August 13 2014 09:10 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 05:16 Yoav wrote:
On August 13 2014 04:18 sc2isnotdying wrote:
On August 12 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:
On August 12 2014 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:
On August 12 2014 08:49 Introvert wrote:
This is another page to bookmark to compare to what actually happens in 2016.

Bush vs Clinton would not only suck, but it'd be incredibly boring. Since we're all in the prediction/prognostication business, I predict a super low turnout, should that be the race.

Ill take the other side of that bet. Obama's election engineers seemed to have mastered the art of voter turnout for presidential elections.


I'll take it. You bring up a good point, but I think that by the time November 2016 comes about, everyone will have had quite enough. I hope.


On August 12 2014 11:06 jellyjello wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:16 radscorpion9 wrote:
On August 12 2014 03:38 Livelovedie wrote:
I think the Tea Party has shifted the conversation and America to the right though, even more than it was going. For all this talk about communism, the last two democratic presidents have been far from progressive.

Its actually pretty exciting. I'm so curious what the next election is going to look like! Will there even be a moderate like Romney around, or will it be a really crazy debate with a genuine tea partier?? We might have some really funny and "unique" presidential debates coming up. And then we can all watch Fox news when their candidate bombs and they start yelling and throwing things


I am really hoping Rand Paul and Rick Perry are front runners for a while maybe even some Bachmann. No doubt there will be some epic clips that will be historically hilarious and staggeringly shocking for generations to come. (Like republicans cheering putting people to death or letting them die in the streets).

It'll be boring if Jeb locks it up early and we have another Bush v Clinton election...



Jeb has zero chance at winning the GOP primary. Everyone knows the entire Bush family is a sheep in disguise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But fool me thrice?!

I can't believe people are putting Bachmann and the likes (phony talk show style politicians) with legitimate conservatives like Rand Paul. But, whoever wins the next presidential election, the quality of past achievements is going to be crucial. For that reason alone, I'd vote for a governor rather than someone from the Senate. I wouldn't mind Christie, although he is far from being conservative, only because he's proven that he can bridge the gap and get things done politically. Or Jindal from Louisiana, or Kasich from Ohio. Leadership from the White House is what this country needs the most right now.



I'm not convinced Jeb will be the nominee either, but it can be hard to say. With Christie's stock damaged, he may just jump in- and who knows after that?

It will be interesting to see how Rand does with the establishment. He's established his credentials as a conservative, but he does (and avoids doing) little things here and there that seem to indicate he's trying to avoid pulling a Ted Cruz (enraging the ones with all the money.)


I think Rand has an outside chance of winning the GOP nomination, but I just can't see him winning the general election. He holds or at least has held in the past some pretty fringe positions. Being against the part of the civil rights act that desegregated lunch counters comes to mind. Barring something unexpected, I don't imagine he'll be the guy that gets the GOP establishment endorsement. He's a long shot, which is my point but it kind of seems like everybody in the GOP is a long shot right now. It's hard to imagine a Bush winning a national election and Christie's bridge scandal looks like it will be a tough obstacle to overcome. Somebody's got to win that nomination though. I'm expecting a wild race and that's the only prediction I feel comfortable making.


The Bush thing would be insane, and everybody would hate a Bush v Clinton race, but he is the most moderate Republican prospect on offer. As for Christie, it's an uphill battle, but if we've all decided to ignore the *many* Clinton scandals on the grounds she was never directly implicated, I think Christie could manage the same.


I feel that Bush is already a done deal not primarily because of what he stands for, but more so because of his predecessors. Christie is not out yet, far from it, especially when Clinton can get away with all of her baggage. Like you said, there is a potential to turn the bridge scandal to his advantage if he successfully shape it as a direct comparison to all those scandals from the Obama administration. His biggest obstacle would be fighting the mainstream media to uphold his image as someone trustworthy.


except he's not trustworthy. he's a petty tyrant.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 13 2014 01:44 GMT
#24189
On August 13 2014 09:46 Sub40APM wrote:
Too bad those jackasses at the commodities futures trading commission shut down intrade.

Yeah, Intrade was pretty cool.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 13 2014 02:02 GMT
#24190
Bottled-water drinkers, we have a problem: There's a good chance that your water comes from California, a state experiencing the third-driest year on record.

The details of where and how bottling companies get their water are often quite murky, but generally speaking, bottled water falls into two categories. The first is "spring water," or groundwater that's collected, according to the EPA, "at the point where water flows naturally to the earth's surface or from a borehole that taps into the underground source." About 55 percent of bottled water in the United States is spring water, including Crystal Geyser and Arrowhead.

The other 45 percent comes from the municipal water supply, meaning that companies, including Aquafina and Dasani, simply treat tap water—the same stuff that comes out of your faucet at home—and bottle it up. (Weird, right?)

But regardless of whether companies bottle from springs or the tap, lots of them are using water in exactly the areas that need it most right now.

[image loading]

The map above shows the sources of water for four big-name companies that bottle in California. Aquafina and Dasani "sources" are the facilities where tap water is treated and bottled, whereas Crystal Geyser and Arrowhead "sources" refer to the springs themselves.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
August 13 2014 02:25 GMT
#24191
On August 13 2014 11:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bottled-water drinkers, we have a problem: There's a good chance that your water comes from California, a state experiencing the third-driest year on record.

The details of where and how bottling companies get their water are often quite murky, but generally speaking, bottled water falls into two categories. The first is "spring water," or groundwater that's collected, according to the EPA, "at the point where water flows naturally to the earth's surface or from a borehole that taps into the underground source." About 55 percent of bottled water in the United States is spring water, including Crystal Geyser and Arrowhead.

The other 45 percent comes from the municipal water supply, meaning that companies, including Aquafina and Dasani, simply treat tap water—the same stuff that comes out of your faucet at home—and bottle it up. (Weird, right?)

But regardless of whether companies bottle from springs or the tap, lots of them are using water in exactly the areas that need it most right now.

[image loading]

The map above shows the sources of water for four big-name companies that bottle in California. Aquafina and Dasani "sources" are the facilities where tap water is treated and bottled, whereas Crystal Geyser and Arrowhead "sources" refer to the springs themselves.


Source


Bottled water is one of those things that never stops blowing my mind. $10 billion+ spent on bottled water makes 0 sense to me. You would think we could carry enough water with us or wait like we did for all of time before we had running water... But nope. Running water within 15 minutes of pretty much everyone in the US and we spend $10 billion dollars to basically have it put in a bottle for us...

Get a nice reusable bottle people?!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
August 13 2014 02:51 GMT
#24192
I use a filter on my tap water and it provides really nice tasting water for a few pennies per glass. Bottled water is ridiculous.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
August 13 2014 03:01 GMT
#24193
its only possible in a world where soft drink companies created entire populations that only drank soda and then took advantage of those behavioural patterns and tastes to shift towards bottled water in response to greater "health" awareness.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
sc2isnotdying
Profile Joined June 2014
United States200 Posts
August 13 2014 04:27 GMT
#24194
On August 13 2014 09:10 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 05:16 Yoav wrote:
On August 13 2014 04:18 sc2isnotdying wrote:
On August 12 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:
On August 12 2014 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:
On August 12 2014 08:49 Introvert wrote:
This is another page to bookmark to compare to what actually happens in 2016.

Bush vs Clinton would not only suck, but it'd be incredibly boring. Since we're all in the prediction/prognostication business, I predict a super low turnout, should that be the race.

Ill take the other side of that bet. Obama's election engineers seemed to have mastered the art of voter turnout for presidential elections.


I'll take it. You bring up a good point, but I think that by the time November 2016 comes about, everyone will have had quite enough. I hope.


On August 12 2014 11:06 jellyjello wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:16 radscorpion9 wrote:
On August 12 2014 03:38 Livelovedie wrote:
I think the Tea Party has shifted the conversation and America to the right though, even more than it was going. For all this talk about communism, the last two democratic presidents have been far from progressive.

Its actually pretty exciting. I'm so curious what the next election is going to look like! Will there even be a moderate like Romney around, or will it be a really crazy debate with a genuine tea partier?? We might have some really funny and "unique" presidential debates coming up. And then we can all watch Fox news when their candidate bombs and they start yelling and throwing things


I am really hoping Rand Paul and Rick Perry are front runners for a while maybe even some Bachmann. No doubt there will be some epic clips that will be historically hilarious and staggeringly shocking for generations to come. (Like republicans cheering putting people to death or letting them die in the streets).

It'll be boring if Jeb locks it up early and we have another Bush v Clinton election...



Jeb has zero chance at winning the GOP primary. Everyone knows the entire Bush family is a sheep in disguise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But fool me thrice?!

I can't believe people are putting Bachmann and the likes (phony talk show style politicians) with legitimate conservatives like Rand Paul. But, whoever wins the next presidential election, the quality of past achievements is going to be crucial. For that reason alone, I'd vote for a governor rather than someone from the Senate. I wouldn't mind Christie, although he is far from being conservative, only because he's proven that he can bridge the gap and get things done politically. Or Jindal from Louisiana, or Kasich from Ohio. Leadership from the White House is what this country needs the most right now.



I'm not convinced Jeb will be the nominee either, but it can be hard to say. With Christie's stock damaged, he may just jump in- and who knows after that?

It will be interesting to see how Rand does with the establishment. He's established his credentials as a conservative, but he does (and avoids doing) little things here and there that seem to indicate he's trying to avoid pulling a Ted Cruz (enraging the ones with all the money.)


I think Rand has an outside chance of winning the GOP nomination, but I just can't see him winning the general election. He holds or at least has held in the past some pretty fringe positions. Being against the part of the civil rights act that desegregated lunch counters comes to mind. Barring something unexpected, I don't imagine he'll be the guy that gets the GOP establishment endorsement. He's a long shot, which is my point but it kind of seems like everybody in the GOP is a long shot right now. It's hard to imagine a Bush winning a national election and Christie's bridge scandal looks like it will be a tough obstacle to overcome. Somebody's got to win that nomination though. I'm expecting a wild race and that's the only prediction I feel comfortable making.


The Bush thing would be insane, and everybody would hate a Bush v Clinton race, but he is the most moderate Republican prospect on offer. As for Christie, it's an uphill battle, but if we've all decided to ignore the *many* Clinton scandals on the grounds she was never directly implicated, I think Christie could manage the same.


I feel that Bush is already a done deal not primarily because of what he stands for, but more so because of his predecessors. Christie is not out yet, far from it, especially when Clinton can get away with all of her baggage. Like you said, there is a potential to turn the bridge scandal to his advantage if he successfully shape it as a direct comparison to all those scandals from the Obama administration. His biggest obstacle would be fighting the mainstream media to uphold his image as someone trustworthy.


I won't count Christie out yet but he is no Clinton. Whatever you may think about the Clintons there is no denying their skills as political operators. Just because the Clintons seem immune to scandal, doesn't mean Christie will be. Maybe Christie has the chops to overcome the bridge scandal, but he hasn't yet. It's got legs.
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
August 13 2014 04:30 GMT
#24195
On August 13 2014 12:01 IgnE wrote:
its only possible in a world where soft drink companies created entire populations that only drank soda and then took advantage of those behavioural patterns and tastes to shift towards bottled water in response to greater "health" awareness.


It's all about personal choices. You know you have diabetes and you choose to over-consume soft drinks, then whose problem is that?
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
August 13 2014 04:37 GMT
#24196
On August 13 2014 13:27 sc2isnotdying wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 09:10 jellyjello wrote:
On August 13 2014 05:16 Yoav wrote:
On August 13 2014 04:18 sc2isnotdying wrote:
On August 12 2014 12:20 Introvert wrote:
On August 12 2014 09:08 Sub40APM wrote:
On August 12 2014 08:49 Introvert wrote:
This is another page to bookmark to compare to what actually happens in 2016.

Bush vs Clinton would not only suck, but it'd be incredibly boring. Since we're all in the prediction/prognostication business, I predict a super low turnout, should that be the race.

Ill take the other side of that bet. Obama's election engineers seemed to have mastered the art of voter turnout for presidential elections.


I'll take it. You bring up a good point, but I think that by the time November 2016 comes about, everyone will have had quite enough. I hope.


On August 12 2014 11:06 jellyjello wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 12 2014 04:16 radscorpion9 wrote:
On August 12 2014 03:38 Livelovedie wrote:
I think the Tea Party has shifted the conversation and America to the right though, even more than it was going. For all this talk about communism, the last two democratic presidents have been far from progressive.

Its actually pretty exciting. I'm so curious what the next election is going to look like! Will there even be a moderate like Romney around, or will it be a really crazy debate with a genuine tea partier?? We might have some really funny and "unique" presidential debates coming up. And then we can all watch Fox news when their candidate bombs and they start yelling and throwing things


I am really hoping Rand Paul and Rick Perry are front runners for a while maybe even some Bachmann. No doubt there will be some epic clips that will be historically hilarious and staggeringly shocking for generations to come. (Like republicans cheering putting people to death or letting them die in the streets).

It'll be boring if Jeb locks it up early and we have another Bush v Clinton election...



Jeb has zero chance at winning the GOP primary. Everyone knows the entire Bush family is a sheep in disguise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But fool me thrice?!

I can't believe people are putting Bachmann and the likes (phony talk show style politicians) with legitimate conservatives like Rand Paul. But, whoever wins the next presidential election, the quality of past achievements is going to be crucial. For that reason alone, I'd vote for a governor rather than someone from the Senate. I wouldn't mind Christie, although he is far from being conservative, only because he's proven that he can bridge the gap and get things done politically. Or Jindal from Louisiana, or Kasich from Ohio. Leadership from the White House is what this country needs the most right now.



I'm not convinced Jeb will be the nominee either, but it can be hard to say. With Christie's stock damaged, he may just jump in- and who knows after that?

It will be interesting to see how Rand does with the establishment. He's established his credentials as a conservative, but he does (and avoids doing) little things here and there that seem to indicate he's trying to avoid pulling a Ted Cruz (enraging the ones with all the money.)


I think Rand has an outside chance of winning the GOP nomination, but I just can't see him winning the general election. He holds or at least has held in the past some pretty fringe positions. Being against the part of the civil rights act that desegregated lunch counters comes to mind. Barring something unexpected, I don't imagine he'll be the guy that gets the GOP establishment endorsement. He's a long shot, which is my point but it kind of seems like everybody in the GOP is a long shot right now. It's hard to imagine a Bush winning a national election and Christie's bridge scandal looks like it will be a tough obstacle to overcome. Somebody's got to win that nomination though. I'm expecting a wild race and that's the only prediction I feel comfortable making.


The Bush thing would be insane, and everybody would hate a Bush v Clinton race, but he is the most moderate Republican prospect on offer. As for Christie, it's an uphill battle, but if we've all decided to ignore the *many* Clinton scandals on the grounds she was never directly implicated, I think Christie could manage the same.


I feel that Bush is already a done deal not primarily because of what he stands for, but more so because of his predecessors. Christie is not out yet, far from it, especially when Clinton can get away with all of her baggage. Like you said, there is a potential to turn the bridge scandal to his advantage if he successfully shape it as a direct comparison to all those scandals from the Obama administration. His biggest obstacle would be fighting the mainstream media to uphold his image as someone trustworthy.


I won't count Christie out yet but he is no Clinton. Whatever you may think about the Clintons there is no denying their skills as political operators. Just because the Clintons seem immune to scandal, doesn't mean Christie will be. Maybe Christie has the chops to overcome the bridge scandal, but he hasn't yet. It's got legs.


Clintons have always had the benefits of mainstream media. Journalism today is not what it once was. On the other hand, Christie has managed the bridge-gate as well as one could ever hope for, especially considering the fact that it occurred in New Jersey. It's not over yet, but we will see how it plays out down the road when the focus returns to the usual election shenanigans.
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-13 04:50:47
August 13 2014 04:50 GMT
#24197
On August 13 2014 13:30 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2014 12:01 IgnE wrote:
its only possible in a world where soft drink companies created entire populations that only drank soda and then took advantage of those behavioural patterns and tastes to shift towards bottled water in response to greater "health" awareness.


It's all about personal choices. You know you have diabetes and you choose to over-consume soft drinks, then whose problem is that?

Society's. The cost of healthcare increases.
Dismay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1180 Posts
August 13 2014 07:46 GMT
#24198
On August 13 2014 12:01 IgnE wrote:
its only possible in a world where soft drink companies created entire populations that only drank soda and then took advantage of those behavioural patterns and tastes to shift towards bottled water in response to greater "health" awareness.

That is how I stopped drinking soda when I was younger, yeah. When I was a kid I didn't know there were any real health issues besides bad teeth (and I brushed) associated with soda. We owned a filter, but somewhere in the back of my head I wasn't satisfied until I went to the 'fridge and opened a drink.

I don't drink bottled water much anymore but I understand the appeal a lot.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
August 13 2014 15:12 GMT
#24199
So the talking heads in New York have been pushing to have the 2016 DNC in Brooklyn of all places. I keep seeing it pop up on the news. In my opinion Brooklyn would be an awful place to hold the convention. For one, there aren't enough hotels in the area and the traffic would be an absolute nightmare. Secondly, and more importantly, everyone in Brooklyn was already going to vote democrat. I thought the idea was to hold the conventions in states where you have the potential to sway a few voters.

Speaking to reporters ahead of the DNC meeting, Schumer dismissed concerns that Brooklyn wouldn’t be a good choice because New York isn’t a swing state. “You win elections these day by appealing to the future,” said Schumer. “No place, no competitor represents the future like Brooklyn.”

He also said that he was confident former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who is widely believed to be weighing a presidential run, would be happy the convention is in Brooklyn. “She walked the streets of Brooklyn with me when she first campaigned, and I think she would be so so happy if we have the convention in Brooklyn,” he said. The delegates will spend time at Barclays touring the center, and checking its suitability for the nationally televised convention. “This DNC is very serious about this. We know in 2016 we will be nominating the 45th president,” said DNC CEO Amy Dacey. As early afternoon approached, DNC members were served their lunch right on the Barclays basketball court, which had been covered in a blue carpeting. Servers dressed in black and sporting white gloves tended to tables set with white plates with dark red borders and gold rims.


White glove service in Brooklyn, ridiculous.
Source
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18876 Posts
August 13 2014 15:17 GMT
#24200
My money's on Columbus.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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