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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1161

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 10 2014 02:08 GMT
#23201
The lawsuit is boehner's plan to try and quell the impeachment cries until after the November elections. That is starting to unravel very quickly.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
July 10 2014 02:23 GMT
#23202
On July 10 2014 05:07 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 04:09 Danglars wrote:
On July 10 2014 03:28 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Sarah Palin took to Fox News on Tuesday night to mock House Speaker John Boehner's planned lawsuit against the administration, saying the only way to deal with President Obama is through impeachment.

“You don’t bring a lawsuit to a gunfight, and there’s no place for lawyers on the front lines,” the former GOP vice presidential nominee said on Fox's “Hannity.” “I think it’s time for a little less talk, a lot more action. When we see even GOP lawmakers who are recognizing and proclaiming Obama’s violation of the constitution, and then ignoring that constitution and the power they have to impeach, it gets kind of frustrating for the American people.”

Echoing an op-ed she published this week on the Breitbart website, Palin said impeachment was the only device Congress could use to halt the actions of what she described as an “imperial President.”

“The one tool they have are articles of impeachment, let’s get going on that,” she said.

The former Alaska governor said legal experts have a list of 25 impeachable offenses and said the President’s main offenses are choosing not to enforce immigration laws, lying to the American people and fraud.

“A great awakening is due in this country and this is a message that will be sent to the president, that he is not an imperial president and lawlessness will not be accepted by the American people,” she said. “That’s not what he was elected to do, to create his own laws as he goes along.”


Source
When I heard Boehner threatening a suit, I also thought you should decide to either impeach or skip the ineffective measures for show entirely. He's not fooling anyone at this point in time.

And the repeated attempts to repeal Obamacare are fooling people because....?
You must have me confused with someone that supported that kind of behavior. Mainstream elected Republicans like Boehner and the leadership are facing growing opposition; they're seen as unwilling to mount opposition when it matters.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 04:01:06
July 10 2014 03:52 GMT
#23203
On July 10 2014 11:23 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 05:07 Jormundr wrote:
On July 10 2014 04:09 Danglars wrote:
On July 10 2014 03:28 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Sarah Palin took to Fox News on Tuesday night to mock House Speaker John Boehner's planned lawsuit against the administration, saying the only way to deal with President Obama is through impeachment.

“You don’t bring a lawsuit to a gunfight, and there’s no place for lawyers on the front lines,” the former GOP vice presidential nominee said on Fox's “Hannity.” “I think it’s time for a little less talk, a lot more action. When we see even GOP lawmakers who are recognizing and proclaiming Obama’s violation of the constitution, and then ignoring that constitution and the power they have to impeach, it gets kind of frustrating for the American people.”

Echoing an op-ed she published this week on the Breitbart website, Palin said impeachment was the only device Congress could use to halt the actions of what she described as an “imperial President.”

“The one tool they have are articles of impeachment, let’s get going on that,” she said.

The former Alaska governor said legal experts have a list of 25 impeachable offenses and said the President’s main offenses are choosing not to enforce immigration laws, lying to the American people and fraud.

“A great awakening is due in this country and this is a message that will be sent to the president, that he is not an imperial president and lawlessness will not be accepted by the American people,” she said. “That’s not what he was elected to do, to create his own laws as he goes along.”


Source
When I heard Boehner threatening a suit, I also thought you should decide to either impeach or skip the ineffective measures for show entirely. He's not fooling anyone at this point in time.

And the repeated attempts to repeal Obamacare are fooling people because....?
You must have me confused with someone that supported that kind of behavior. Mainstream elected Republicans like Boehner and the leadership are facing growing opposition; they're seen as unwilling to mount opposition when it matters.



Were you not the Danglers who was saying the newly elected congress people practically needed those votes to fool their voters?

Probably just got you confused with the Danglers who was defending Boehner and new Republican Congressmen voting to repeal the ACA for the umpty-fifth time for 'optics'...? Hard to tell which one is at the keyboard, ya know?

On June 12 2014 16:22 Danglars wrote:

It was a discussion of optics for incoming House freshmen at the time taking place (those that hadn't been on the record an absurd number of times). I really don't see how you could conclude otherwise...

Boehner bringing up votes on modifying the passed bill was precisely the wrong strategy for people newly elected having promised to work to destroy it. In town hall meetings, a recently-elected candidate could feel sheepish if his only vote was having to put down moderate's ideas to alter it from within instead of replacing fresh.


"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 05:26:30
July 10 2014 05:12 GMT
#23204
Edit: ops

That doesn't look like an endorsement to me. Looks more like an explanation of the politics behind it.

As a matter of fact, it appears he was highlighting quotes from an article (an article you posted). Kid of dishonest to leave out the context.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22177

on the very same page he said

I don't know what kind of parallels you're trying to draw here from Obamacare to creationism. If you've been following, the types in Congress that are in favor of meaningless votes are the very types the local tea parties are trying to unseat. That's part and parcel of business-as-usual Washington, talk about reducing the size of government, and do nothing.


[ emphasis mine]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22171


How does that seem like an endorsement or defense?

"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
July 10 2014 06:16 GMT
#23205
On July 10 2014 14:12 Introvert wrote:
Edit: ops

That doesn't look like an endorsement to me. Looks more like an explanation of the politics behind it.

As a matter of fact, it appears he was highlighting quotes from an article (an article you posted). Kid of dishonest to leave out the context.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22177

on the very same page he said

Show nested quote +
I don't know what kind of parallels you're trying to draw here from Obamacare to creationism. If you've been following, the types in Congress that are in favor of meaningless votes are the very types the local tea parties are trying to unseat. That's part and parcel of business-as-usual Washington, talk about reducing the size of government, and do nothing.


[ emphasis mine]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22171


How does that seem like an endorsement or defense?



Well I guess that's why I responded with

On June 13 2014 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
discussion of optics for incoming House freshmen...a recently-elected candidate could feel sheepish if his only vote was having to put down moderate's ideas to alter it from within instead of replacing fresh.


Is that not exactly meaningless?

A vote based solely on the optics? A vote which is admittedly purely symbolic? So that the half-wits that elected them believe them? Without it actually having any meaning at all...? Not to mention the other 30+ votes they ALREADY had... Plenty of them had to be meaningless without the shield of 'optics'...?

They could of voted 1000 times to repeal it and it wouldn't change whether they could/would signed on to reasonable legislation after or before... But their constituency is too dense to comprehend that.

I can't believe it's even in contention whether the Tea Party supported meaningless votes...
.


To which he responded.... Oh wait he never did... Because it was foolish to suggest that the Tea Party wanted to get rid of the congresspeople who were holding meaningless votes, because that was one of the first things they wanted to do when they got there maybe...?

It wasn't Boehner or establishment Republicans pushing to vote to repeal the ACA for the 50+ time, it was the Tea Party.

His suggestion that the Tea Party was trying to stop those types of votes is divorced from the reality that they were the ones clamoring for those exact votes.

I guess more importantly to the point was that he was asked who the repeal votes were fooling, his response doesn't fit with his previous assertion that those votes were intentionally fooling the people who elected tea party reps (optics). Which didn't fit with his previous assertion that the Tea parties were trying unseat people who took votes like that, which doesn't fit with reality...

Hope that clears it up a bit for you?


"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-11 00:53:31
July 10 2014 06:35 GMT
#23206
On July 10 2014 15:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 14:12 Introvert wrote:
Edit: ops

That doesn't look like an endorsement to me. Looks more like an explanation of the politics behind it.

As a matter of fact, it appears he was highlighting quotes from an article (an article you posted). Kid of dishonest to leave out the context.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22177

on the very same page he said

I don't know what kind of parallels you're trying to draw here from Obamacare to creationism. If you've been following, the types in Congress that are in favor of meaningless votes are the very types the local tea parties are trying to unseat. That's part and parcel of business-as-usual Washington, talk about reducing the size of government, and do nothing.


[ emphasis mine]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1109#22171


How does that seem like an endorsement or defense?



Well I guess that's why I responded with

Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
discussion of optics for incoming House freshmen...a recently-elected candidate could feel sheepish if his only vote was having to put down moderate's ideas to alter it from within instead of replacing fresh.


Is that not exactly meaningless?

A vote based solely on the optics? A vote which is admittedly purely symbolic? So that the half-wits that elected them believe them? Without it actually having any meaning at all...? Not to mention the other 30+ votes they ALREADY had... Plenty of them had to be meaningless without the shield of 'optics'...?

They could of voted 1000 times to repeal it and it wouldn't change whether they could/would signed on to reasonable legislation after or before... But their constituency is too dense to comprehend that.

I can't believe it's even in contention whether the Tea Party supported meaningless votes...
.


To which he responded.... Oh wait he never did... Because it was foolish to suggest that the Tea Party wanted to get rid of the congresspeople who were holding meaningless votes, because that was one of the first things they wanted to do when they got there maybe...?

It wasn't Boehner or establishment Republicans pushing to vote to repeal the ACA for the 50+ time, it was the Tea Party.

His suggestion that the Tea Party was trying to stop those types of votes is divorced from the reality that they were the ones clamoring for those exact votes.

I guess more importantly to the point was that he was asked who the repeal votes were fooling, his response doesn't fit with his previous assertion that those votes were intentionally fooling the people who elected tea party reps (optics). Which didn't fit with his previous assertion that the Tea parties were trying unseat people who took votes like that, which doesn't fit with reality...

Hope that clears it up a bit for you?




So the fact that he didn't respond is indicative of the fact that he was lying?

Somehow I knew you would bring up the irrelevant fact that you think you proved him wrong. True or not, you can't claim that what he said was a defense of what they did, espeically since he's been consistent with his position.

Then he said it was a ploy by the mainstream and done for optical reasons. (Indeed, he even uses the phrase "meaningless votes" in the post I brought up). Now he is still saying that they were meaningless votes, just like this suit against Obama is meaningless. Pretty consistent, whether you think he's wrong or right.

Again: On June 10th he called the votes meaningless and says they are for show. Today he said he didn't support them and that Boehner was not challenging anything that mattered.

Nothing changed. Those are two similar statements that say/imply very similar things.



I'll leave this to Danglars if he wants to clear it up, I was trying to understand how you made the logical leap of

explanation=defense.
But maybe I'm wrong, I'll let him say something, if he so chooses. I was trying to understand what you were saying, and as I suspected it had more to do with the fact that you thought he was wrong than with any sort of flip-flopping.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 07:49:15
July 10 2014 07:48 GMT
#23207
Hmm, I'm not entirely clear on it; but on the issue of reading; my impression is that GH is misreading or misinterpreting what danglars had said; and that danglars post at the top of the page is consistent with his prior statements.

So I think danglars and introvert are right on the narrow question of the interpretation of the statements (which is the issue at hand).

Just in case it's helpful to have someone else offer an opinion.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
July 10 2014 12:40 GMT
#23208
On July 10 2014 10:40 KwarK wrote:
How is Palin saying "you don't bring a lawsuit to a gunfight" not literally saying that the Obama problem is one to be solved by bullets, not lawyers. The expression "you don't bring a knife to a gunfight" suggests the proposed solution is a metaphorical knife and a metaphorical gun might be better. As the solution she is criticising is a literal lawsuit surely she proposes a literal gun?

Or is Palin just an idiot?

would not be surprised if she really does propose a literal gun fight.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 17:38:47
July 10 2014 17:26 GMT
#23209
Well Perhaps it's a bit harder because you may not remember this.

On October 21 2013 13:40 Danglars wrote:
Cruz and the Tea Party's position on Obamacare is as popular as ever amongst the Republican electorate.


He seemed to think that pointless repeal votes were not coming from Cruz and the Tea Party, which is obviously wrong.

Sen. Ted Cruz is sponsoring a bill – the “Obamacare Repeal Act” (S. 177) – that would completely erase the federal healthcare law from the books and get Washington out of the healthcare business altogether.
In the House of Representatives, H.R. 45 accomplishes similar goals as it would “repeal the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and health care-related provisions in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010.”
Take Action! Sign the petition and send free messages to U.S. lawmakers DEMANDING that they pass S. 177 and H.R. 45 to REPEAL OBAMACARE and replace it with nothing.


Source

Seems like pointless votes are popular and desired by the majority of Republicans (Tea Party included) contrary to what Danglers was suggesting (After he said that he wanted 'them to fight tooth and nail').

I suppose one could say he wasn't defending pointless votes, just misrepresenting who wanted them?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 10 2014 17:53 GMT
#23210
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 10 2014 19:13 GMT
#23211
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

Show nested quote +
By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 10 2014 20:19 GMT
#23212
Republicans who signed up for Obamacare this year are liking their new insurance coverage, according to a new survey.

A poll of Obamacare enrollees published Thursday by the Commonwealth Fund found that 74 percent of newly insured Republicans are happy with the plans they bought. Overall, 77 percent of people who had insurance prior to the rollout of the Affordable Care Act said they are pleased with the new coverage they obtained in the last year.

The survey revealed the current uninsured rate among working-age adults in the U.S. has dropped to 15 percent, down from 20 percent in July-September 2013 -- meaning an estimated 9.5 million people have gained coverage since then.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 10 2014 20:32 GMT
#23213
On July 11 2014 04:13 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?

Firing a teacher shouldn't require the same legal burden of proof as a criminal conviction.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 10 2014 20:33 GMT
#23214
The South may get its first union at a foreign-owned automaker after all. Bucking an anti-union vote by workers at a Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, in February, the United Auto Workers and Volkswagen will announce Thursday the creation of a union local.

Participation in the local would be voluntary and not formally recognized by VW until a majority of the 3,200 employees at the plant agree to join, according to The Tennessean. It’s unclear that that number of employees would agree to join immediately, but pro-union workers lost narrowly in February’s vote, and Volkswagen has actively encouraged the creation of a union, threatening to pull back on expansion plans if workers cannot agree to form one.

"We will be announcing a local, and we would fully expect that Volkswagen would deal with this local union if it represents a substantial portion of its employees," UAW Secretary-Treasurer Gary Casteel of Ashland City told The Tennessean.

Workers had rejected a plan to form a union in a 712–626 vote, despite Volkswagen being keen on the idea. The vote had become symbolic of undue foreign and liberal influence in the conservative state, and state politicians like Sen. Bob Corker and Gov. Bill Haslam, both Republicans, actively opposed VW’s and the UAW’s efforts to unionize. Leading up to the vote, signs around Chattanooga conflated a vote for unionization with support for President Barack Obama.

At nearly every other VW plant across the globe, workers participate in a “works council” in which many decisions are made collectively between management and workers.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 20:34:23
July 10 2014 20:34 GMT
#23215
On July 11 2014 05:32 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 04:13 IgnE wrote:
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?

Firing a teacher shouldn't require the same legal burden of proof as a criminal conviction.


Sure it should unless you would rather be open to a very large number of wrongful termination suits when they fire first and ask questions later which would cost the state a fortune.

Edit: Also they probably don't have enough potential applicants to fire first and ask questions later.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 10 2014 20:52 GMT
#23216
On July 11 2014 05:34 Adreme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 05:32 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On July 11 2014 04:13 IgnE wrote:
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?

Firing a teacher shouldn't require the same legal burden of proof as a criminal conviction.


Sure it should unless you would rather be open to a very large number of wrongful termination suits when they fire first and ask questions later which would cost the state a fortune.

Edit: Also they probably don't have enough potential applicants to fire first and ask questions later.

What an absurd worry! It's not rocket science to develop reasonable standards for hiring / firing people.
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
July 10 2014 20:57 GMT
#23217
On July 11 2014 05:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 05:34 Adreme wrote:
On July 11 2014 05:32 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On July 11 2014 04:13 IgnE wrote:
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?

Firing a teacher shouldn't require the same legal burden of proof as a criminal conviction.


Sure it should unless you would rather be open to a very large number of wrongful termination suits when they fire first and ask questions later which would cost the state a fortune.

Edit: Also they probably don't have enough potential applicants to fire first and ask questions later.

What an absurd worry! It's not rocket science to develop reasonable standards for hiring / firing people.


Considering they are most likely suspended during the investigation (similar to how they treat cops during police brutality investigations and those are often on tape) its unlikely that whether or not it takes 7 months or 2 months to complete an investigation really changes much from the students perspective since they wont see the teacher anyway unless they are cleared. The only purpose it serves it to reduce the chance that the school makes a mistake and gets sued over it.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
July 10 2014 20:59 GMT
#23218
On July 11 2014 04:13 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2014 02:53 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
A bill passed the California Legislature days after the Vergara ruling that reduces the time it takes to fire abusive teachers from up to two years to seven months. But that law deals mainly with the rare cases of egregious misconduct including child abuse, sex abuse and teachers who commit certain drug crimes.

Source

Lovely, it now *only* takes seven months to fire a teacher who abuses a child.

Another small improvement from the law:

By cutting the time and expense of litigating these types of cases, districts should be able to avoid out-of-court settlements like the one between the Los Angeles Unified School District and Mark Berndt, an elementary school teacher accused in 2012 of sexually abusing dozens of students. In that case L.A. Unified paid Berndt $40,000 to not appeal his firing. He was sentenced in 2013 to 25 years in prison for committing lewd acts on children. The law will also prohibit districts from agreeing to nondisclosure agreements and expunging accusations of abuse from personnel records if teachers agree to quit.

Source


I assume that the trial and conviction of such a teacher takes approximately 7 months too. Maybe you'd prefer a firing squad on the spot?

i agree that termination hurdle is prob worst part of teacher union deals, but it is not like getting rid of teacher unions will save education. fundamental problem is not bad teachers but very bad distribution of resources, both direct school resourcse and social resources in the bad neighborhoods.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 10 2014 21:46 GMT
#23219
WASHINGTON – Over the past five years, the Obama administration has repeatedly called for cutting fossil fuel subsidies in the form of tax breaks and other incentives. But the amount of money the federal government forfeits through subsidies has increased steadily over that time period, reaching $18.5 billion last year, according to a new report from the environmental group Oil Change International.

That total is up from $12.7 billion in 2009, largely because oil and gas production has increased in the United States. Next year, domestic oil production is expected to reach the highest level since 1972. The Obama administration regularly touts its "all of the above" energy strategy, which includes increased oil and gas production.

The Oil Change report includes a variety of subsidies in its accounting, including tax breaks, incentives for production on federal lands (such as royalty fees that haven't been adjusted in 25 years) and tax deductions for clean-up costs. And if state subsidies for oil, gas and coal production are also included, the total value climbs to $21.6 billion for 2013. Here's how that breaks down:

[image loading]

In September 2009, Obama and other G20 leaders pledged to phase out fossil fuel subsidies to help curb global warming. Obama also called for eliminating subsidies in 2012 and 2013. And the administration's 2015 budget proposal again calls for a major cut to fossil fuel subsidies.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
July 10 2014 22:06 GMT
#23220
Would it be that hard to merely just do the chart in Billions of dollars since that's clearly the baseline. I don't know why we have to do the chart in millions of dollars when it starts at 5,000 million.
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