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Since Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS) and state Sen. Chris McDaniel (R-MS) look all but certain to face each other in a runoff in about three weeks, McDaniel supporters smell blood in the water.
Just a few hours after a late primary night that found Cochran and McDaniel separated by a razor-thin margin, and McDaniel outside groups supporting his candidate started focusing on the next task: money.
"I'm going to be brutally honest with you: our campaign is pretty low on money and there's no way we can win if conservatives from around Mississippi and America don't stand up and make sure we have the resources we need to win," McDaniel wrote in an email to supporters.
Tea Party groups and other McDaniel supporters are indicating they can't just coast to victory over the next three weeks in the runoff, even with a slight lead over Cochran. They need one more big influx of cash as they plan a particular attack strategy for the three weeks before the June 24 runoff. These groups and supporters plan to spend big to help the tea party challenger to Cochran but their coffers are rather low.
"So here's the plan for the next three weeks. Today, I need you to give the most that you can possibly give to Chris," The Madison Project's Drew Ryun wrote to supporters. "I am huddling with the team today to put our three week plan together."
The Senate Conservatives Fund and the Club for Growth and sent a similar pleas for cash and the Club for Growth also urged Cochran to drop out of the race (which seems unlikely). These groups say they are still formulating a plan but what's clear is that the push is going to be a doubling of previous efforts to help McDaniel replace Cochran or go a bit beyond that.
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So a few facts about it.
He was never listed as a POW he was always considered AWOL.
They still went after him to save him and people did die in the attempt to free him.
Obama Released 5 Gitmo terrorists back to Al Qaeda for him.
If anything we don't have all the facts now and we will probably get them more in the coming months/years.
I doubt anyone would have known/cared about him if he wasn't released recently. Did anyone at all know about him before they heard that his released was negotiated with terrorists to released gitmo terrorists for him?
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Bringing americans home is good; but I feel the price was too high. We're trading a generic grunt for multiple commanders (not sure exactly what level the gitmo guys were at, I'm guessing mid-low commanders, equivalent to top level NCOs or bottom level officers, anyone know more precisely?) That he's our only missing means fixing that is worth some bonus to us; but that he's awol before being captured reduces his value. On the whole I'd say we shouldn't have been willing to do more than a 1:1 trade for him.
More facts coming out will help assess the situation.
Outlier(unlikely) theories: this is a cover/distraction for something; like maybe they turned one of the detainees to work for US, and they want to get him back in to feed them new intel, and they're covering his identity by giving back several guys.
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A Mississippi tea party official with close ties to U.S. Senate candidate Chris McDaniel apparently ended up inside a locked and empty county courthouse late Tuesday night after primary election results had come in.
Hinds County Republican executive chairman Pete Perry told TPM that he received a phone call around 2:00 a.m. CT on Wednesday from Janis Lane, president of the Central Mississippi Tea Party, who said she was locked inside the Hinds County courthouse. That would be where the circuit clerk and election commission offices, and the primary election ballots, are located.
The incident seemed to mystify Perry, a supporter of Sen. Thad Cochran, whom McDaniel is challenging for the GOP nomination. The ballots had been secured prior to the intrusion, according to local authorities.
"I don't know. I know I wouldn't walk into a courthouse at 2 o'clock in the morning by myself or with somebody else and just walk around inside the building," Perry said. "I'm not going to go into a public building just because somehow or another I happened to find a door that was unlocked.
"Especially if it's going down to where a bunch of election materials were and I'd been deeply involved in a campaign," he added. "I am 64. I was involved in politics when I was real young, and I remember people breaking into a hotel in the middle of the night."
Connie Cochran, a sister-in law to Sen. Thad Cochran and one of the county's election commissioners, told TPM that she left the courthouse at 11:30 p.m. CT, the last person to leave, more than two hours before Lane called Perry.
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I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. I'm sure when asked to explain she drew inspiration from the guy in the movie eurotrip and went "this isn't where I parked my car." Really though I'm curious as to what excuse she'll come up with, and if there somehow was a legit reason or if she was trying to temper with the ballots.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 04 2014 19:11 coverpunch wrote:
I don't think it's convincing to put this in a true/false dichotomy because, strictly speaking, teaching Newtonian mechanics and Mendelian genetics is also "false information". You would have to draw new lines around what is pedagogical and what is factual per se, which is a much more involved discussion.
To be fair, lots of people are very unhappy with pedagogical changes in the Common Core math program. Which is probably the more relevant discussion to have rather than creationism.
newtonian mechanics are taught with qualifiers in preface of the textbook explaining their pedagogical advantages and whatnot.
creationism is a purely religious device
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Does anyone remember how Bush Jr. released 500 people from Gitmo when he was president? That is literally 100 times as many people as were just released by Obama.
Does anyone remember how Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists in Iran and how he gave them weapons in exchange for the release of hostages? Was it wrong for Reagan to do that? If so, why? If not, why not?
Does anyone believe that Republicans were ever not going to be outraged by what happened to Bergdahl? If he stayed there then Obama doesn't care about the troops, if he's brought home then Obama is evil for negotiating with terrorists.
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On June 05 2014 10:36 SnipedSoul wrote:
Does anyone remember how Bush Jr. released 500 people from Gitmo when he was president? That is literally 100 times as many people as were just released by Obama.
Does anyone remember how Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists in Iran and how he gave them weapons in exchange for the release of hostages? Was it wrong for Reagan to do that? If so, why? If not, why not?
Does anyone believe that Republicans were ever not going to be outraged by what happened to Bergdahl? If he stayed there then Obama doesn't care about the troops, if he's brought home then Obama is evil for negotiating with terrorists.
Yeah I'm not sure people quite understand the internet yet. This guy did a pretty good job highlighting what people still seem blind to.
https://twitter.com/MattBinder
One of my favorites.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yvj6kxz.jpg)
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On June 05 2014 10:36 SnipedSoul wrote:
Does anyone remember how Bush Jr. released 500 people from Gitmo when he was president? That is literally 100 times as many people as were just released by Obama.
Does anyone remember how Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists in Iran and how he gave them weapons in exchange for the release of hostages? Was it wrong for Reagan to do that? If so, why? If not, why not?
Does anyone believe that Republicans were ever not going to be outraged by what happened to Bergdahl? If he stayed there then Obama doesn't care about the troops, if he's brought home then Obama is evil for negotiating with terrorists.
It's all apples and oranges. This is a classic prisoner swap. It has been decades since the US has done such a swap and I don't think the government has ever swapped with a non-government group like the Taliban.
Republicans would complain less if there weren't allegations that he had deserted, although it's notable they seem to be testing the waters on both sides, criticizing President Obama both for being "too soft" as with the negotiations and for being "doing too much" in exercising executive powers to disregard Congress and failing to keep them in the loop. It's election year politics and part of the game. Democrats are also swaying to and fro, trying to see how the electorate reacts to the various allegations. It is notable that members of both parties are upset that Obama cut Congress out of the loop. Whether it was illegal is a separate question (and probably moot), but they clearly thought they would be informed if the White House was close to a deal and they weren't.
It remains to be seen if this was a bad deal. From all the accounts of Bergdahl himself, his condition is poor.
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The Taliban are pretty much the goverment Group in parts of Afghanisten.
And they were THE goverment Group before you invaded.
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I haven't really been paying attention to the whole circus, but can someone run down why Obama/US should care about him? I thought he was friends with the Taliban? Why should we care about this?
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On June 05 2014 17:16 IgnE wrote:
I haven't really been paying attention to the whole circus, but can someone run down why Obama/US should care about him? I thought he was friends with the Taliban? Why should we care about this?
Well the truth of exactly what and why anything happened isn't really out yet. It's pretty much all speculation, interpretation, and extrapolation on some (reasonably substantiated) allegations.
Many of the same people throwing a fit about this were yelling from the rafters just weeks ago about how we NEEDED to get him back. Calling Obama all sorts of names for not retrieving him, etc...
I imagine Obama/US wanted to know whatever he knew. Also we don't leave soldiers behind even if they do something stupid.
He might of had a sever mental breakdown that caused him to allegedly desert (as in some form of temporary insanity). It may have been his Calvinist beliefs that caused him to allegedly desert (Effectual Calling). I've heard rumors there were leadership issues within his unit, they may of had something to do with it. He was also described as a bit of an outcast so perhaps he couldn't take the razzing from his fellow soldiers. Fact is we have no solid idea about exactly what happened and why.
All that being said he could also just be a shitty soldier. No matter the reason for his 'capture', he needed to be brought back to be debriefed, prevented from remaining in enemy hands after we left, and to face appropriate reprimand for whatever he may have done wrong.
On top of all that I really don't understand the outrage from the right about the people we released. We hadn't brought any charges, they weren't going to do anything we could charge them with in Gitmo, the right doesn't want to just execute them, so I really don't know what they would prefer?
Best I can tell the right just wants to leave Gitmo open forever and to dig into a bottomless budget to feed/cloth/shelter the prisoners until they die, without ever seeing a trial or having an opportunity to be proven guilty or innocent of whatever they are accused of.
Judge Napolitano has taken the cake on the crazy from this by suggesting that Obama should be tried for 'providing material assistance to terrorist organizations'
To anyone complaining about who was released what the hell would you do with them and Beghdal
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I think your attitude is a bit too dismissive of any legitimate concerns and criticisms. It's certainly premature to say this was a bad trade and accuse the administration of making a blunder, but I think it is also premature to act like this was a worthy trade and nothing bad will come of it.
For one, the administration could have kept Congress in the loop and done more to work through the political moving parts, especially with bipartisan opposition to prisoner trades. The president may also be further testing the limits of executive power and avoiding oversight committees for "unique circumstances" (as the administration is arguing) seems to be a precedent fraught with danger. There are some real questions of whether the administration could justify this through the proper channels, since Congress has generally been cooperative with the administration on special operations and drone strikes. Despite being publicly critical, Republicans have never really tried to stop the president on military decisions.
But it will play out politically. The White House has already apologized to Senate Democrats for keeping them in the dark and has agreed to provide officials for hearings, where members of Congress will rage out at them and let the White House know they're very unhappy and people in elections will posture like they're much more influential than they are.
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What exactly is so hard to understand about the fact that Obama broke the law in this particular prisoner swap, which appears to be an incredibly stupid one in the first place? Comparing this to other prisoner releases is irrelevant.
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If the admin had just left it at "We needed to get him home (so we can court-martial him)" without the Rose Garden announcement, without Rice saying he "served with distinction", and Hagel "This is a happy day".
It would be a much different story.
They needed to make it a story about getting the guy home so we can deal with him our way.
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United States44286 Posts
I don't get the non government group status of the Taliban. Weren't they the legitimate and legal gov of Afghanistan until they were displaced by US invasion? They're not Al Qaeda, even if they worked with them, there is no definition of national sovereignty under which they wouldn't qualify as a government in exile or freedom fighters.
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Yes, they WERE the legitimate government Afghanistan. Now they're not.
This is important for the distinction of whether the United States is "negotiating with terrorists". On another issue, it broadly treats the Taliban as a terrorist group and not a government for the purposes of drone strikes and military operations. The executive does have broad flexibility in conducting negotiations with foreign countries regarding prisoner transfers, but that's another distinction that it's not clear if he has the same flexibility with militant groups.
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I have a brilliant a idea how the US government could solve their war prisoner and veteran money problems. Don't create them! If the government sends its citizens to war it should better make sure that they come back in one piece. It wasn't Obama who started two wars.
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United States44286 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:22 coverpunch wrote:
Yes, they WERE the legitimate government Afghanistan. Now they're not.
This is important for the distinction of whether the United States is "negotiating with terrorists". On another issue, it broadly treats the Taliban as a terrorist group and not a government for the purposes of drone strikes and military operations. The executive does have broad flexibility in conducting negotiations with foreign countries regarding prisoner transfers, but that's another distinction that it's not clear if he has the same flexibility with militant groups.
The point being that if the Taliban are terrorists and people you can't negotiate with then there is no meaningful distinction between a government you don't like and terrorists. It's a resistance group and government in exile, no different to that of the Polish during the second world war. The word terrorist has a meaning beyond "people I need justification to declare illegitimate and kill".
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EPT
