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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1067

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
May 21 2014 01:37 GMT
#21321
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/05/16/the-terrible-luck-of-long-term-unemployment/

The long-term unemployed have a hard time getting companies to even look at their job applications, let alone hire them. Rand Ghayad, a labor economist at Northeastern University, has tested this: he sent out thousands of fictitious resumés that were basically identical except for how long they said they'd been unemployed and what field they'd been in before. The results? Employers preferred people without any relevant experience but who'd been unemployed less than six months to people with experience who'd been unemployed longer than that. In other words, how long you'd been out of work trumped all else.


[image loading]
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42786 Posts
May 21 2014 03:03 GMT
#21322
On May 21 2014 09:32 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 08:51 KwarK wrote:
For the last 4 months I've lived in the US. Both rent and everyday living expenses are significantly higher than they were for me in the UK, especially as a proportion of low income.
I like your freedom in sharing this. Could you also breakdown on gas, groceries, and restaurants? It's pretty surprising for me, since all the CPI (excl. rent) figures I've seen attempting to compare big cities UK vs USA and smaller ones put UK at a 10-30% disadvantage. Measures of gas prices usually favor USA. It really is astounding. I could only guess you did a move from a low cost suburb to closer to a big city's downtown.

My rent has gone from £400/m in a shared student house to nearer $900 although apartment there. Main increase is in food, meat, bread, fruit, veggies etc are all noticably more expensive here. Even basic stuff like milk, £2 for a gallon in the UK, $3.7 in the US (10% more). And things like a cheap haircut which would have cost me £7 in Liverpool cost $20 after tip.

I was in one of the cheapest areas in the UK but the idea that taxes have made the cost of living untenable outside of the US free market paradise is simply not held up by my experience. Gas is perhaps the only notable exception which is somewhat undermined by the worse mileage on cars and longer journeys.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 21 2014 03:10 GMT
#21323
WASHINGTON –- President Barack Obama plans to announce a new national monument on Wednesday, protecting nearly half a million acres in southern New Mexico.

The Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monument, near Las Cruces, will be the largest monument Obama has designated so far. White House spokesman Jay Carney said Monday that the designation will help generate $7.4 million in revenues from tourism, and will "preserve the prehistoric, historic and scientific values of the area for the benefit of all Americans."

The president will formally announce the designation on Wednesday afternoon. Conservation advocates praised the move.

“With this designation, President Obama has shown great leadership in protecting public lands and vigorous support for the New Mexico communities that have long advocated for this national monument,” Jamie Williams, president of The Wilderness Society, said in a statement.

This is the 11th monument that Obama has designated under the Antiquities Act, a 1906 law that allows the president to "protect landmarks, structures, and objects of historic or scientific interest." Sixteen presidents have used the law to protect new areas.

Obama's use of the act, however, has drawn criticism from Republicans in the House who passed a bill in March that would curb his ability to designate new protected areas. Rep. Rob Bishop (R-Utah), the author of that bill, sent a letter to Obama on Monday urging him to "reconsider" the designation, citing concerns over security along the U.S.-Mexico border.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
May 21 2014 03:38 GMT
#21324
That doesn't seem like it's representative of actual variances in cost of living averages, so much as the happenstances of your case. Milk prices I find can vary from $3 to $4 depending on which supermarket you go to, and whether you buy store brand or not. Depending on how many different stores you've checked out, it might just be the stores, or maybe it's Albuquerque. and student housing of any sort tends to be cheaper, especially with shared arrangements.

Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 06:04:34
May 21 2014 05:33 GMT
#21325
Man that Kentucky Senate race is going to be something to see. If they spend $100,000,000 on the campaign it would roughly be the equivalent of spending almost $9,000,000,000 on a presidential election or ~9x as much as the most expensive election ever.

Put another way the money going into the Kentucky election would be enough to fund the states entire pre-k budget for a whole year with almost $30,000,000 left over.

Should be interesting to see how Kentucky deals with Mitch's typically rough and tumble tactics being used on a woman. Not that she can't dish it right back out, I wouldn't be surprised if she baited him into saying something way out of bounds (at least for women voters).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Roswell
Profile Joined November 2013
United States250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 17:17:11
May 21 2014 15:21 GMT
#21326
On May 21 2014 08:03 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:
-_-

Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363

So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.

Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge?

I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.

Reality clearly has a liberal bias.

You're not getting this. Every other country taxes gas more than you. These countries still have functioning economies. Your theory < reality. There is no point speculating about what might happen, you can just go take a look, denying reality and making up your own answers is idiotic when you can just look and see what happened.

I am so done with you. Never said it couldn't function, its just a horrid idea. And everyone else's "answer" is holding hands and encouraging greener attitudes? This is the real world, people will cheat and get around any stupid system you put. HOV lanes cause more accidents than on ramp lanes, because people slide in and out. Do the math? Take a 6 lane highway and subtract 2 lanes for 90% of drivers. That is 6 minus 2 which equals 4 lanes. Increasing diesel tax because they pollute... gimme a break.

Last I heard in Highschool the earth was supposed to be in climatic disaster with droughts wiping out countries, but ofc "those" predictions were all wrong 10 - 20 years ago, now we really have the prediction stuff down to a science. I'm gonna leave my lights on tonight cause I'm scared of global warming. Oh shit that adds to global warming!

But keep shitting on hard working folks because it makes you feel better.

EDIT: thanks for defending kwark like a hero, he sadly likes to assume I said civilization would collapse barring a tax hike on diesel. Also thanks for greenhorizon and Im coming across like a tool. Honestly thanks. I cant even get 15 minutes of release from stress thanks to a $4 tax on cigarettes because they are bad for me, its funny how that is that and "rap music" doesnt have a tax that high. But i dont know what is good for me the politicians do tho so ill trust them and you guys are wonderous thanks, standing ovation. But 6-2=6 for you and taxing diesel wont affect the cost of all goods. of course not. Wcs was pretty amazing though. Not posting but will continue to edit if u cant subtract 2 from 6
"You are the bravest boy I have ever met"
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
May 21 2014 15:27 GMT
#21327
On May 22 2014 00:21 Roswell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 08:03 KwarK wrote:
On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:
-_-

Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363

So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.

Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge?

I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.

Reality clearly has a liberal bias.

You're not getting this. Every other country taxes gas more than you. These countries still have functioning economies. Your theory < reality. There is no point speculating about what might happen, you can just go take a look, denying reality and making up your own answers is idiotic when you can just look and see what happened.

I am so done with you. Never said it couldn't function, its just a horrid idea. And everyone else's "answer" is holding hands and encouraging greener attitudes? This is the real world, people will cheat and get around any stupid system you put. HOV lanes cause more accidents than on ramp lanes, because people slide in and out. Do the math? Take a 6 lane highway and subtract 2 lanes for 90% of drivers. That is 6 minus 2 which equals 4 lanes. Increasing diesel tax because they pollute... gimme a break.

Last I heard in Highschool the earth was supposed to be in climatic disaster with droughts wiping out countries, but ofc "those" predictions were all wrong 10 - 20 years ago, now we really have the prediction stuff down to a science. I'm gonna leave my lights on tonight cause I'm scared of global warming. Oh shit that adds to global warming!

But keep shitting on hard working folks because it makes you feel better.


On the climate change "debate"

Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21709 Posts
May 21 2014 15:44 GMT
#21328
On May 22 2014 00:21 Roswell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 08:03 KwarK wrote:
On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:
-_-

Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363

So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.

Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge?

I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.

Reality clearly has a liberal bias.

You're not getting this. Every other country taxes gas more than you. These countries still have functioning economies. Your theory < reality. There is no point speculating about what might happen, you can just go take a look, denying reality and making up your own answers is idiotic when you can just look and see what happened.

I am so done with you. Never said it couldn't function, its just a horrid idea. And everyone else's "answer" is holding hands and encouraging greener attitudes? This is the real world, people will cheat and get around any stupid system you put. HOV lanes cause more accidents than on ramp lanes, because people slide in and out. Do the math? Take a 6 lane highway and subtract 2 lanes for 90% of drivers. That is 6 minus 2 which equals 4 lanes. Increasing diesel tax because they pollute... gimme a break.

Last I heard in Highschool the earth was supposed to be in climatic disaster with droughts wiping out countries, but ofc "those" predictions were all wrong 10 - 20 years ago, now we really have the prediction stuff down to a science. I'm gonna leave my lights on tonight cause I'm scared of global warming. Oh shit that adds to global warming!

But keep shitting on hard working folks because it makes you feel better.

congratulations you typed all that without ever mentioning anything about Kwarks point aside from "gimme a break"
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
May 21 2014 17:47 GMT
#21329
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Are Americans giving up on the idea of a home in the suburbs for good? That’s the question economists are asking after April data showing a boom in multi-unit housing starts.

The chart above shows that the share of housing starts consisting of five-or-more unit buildings was 39% — the highest since February 1974. That’s important for a number of reasons, notably that on a per-unit basis, the economy gets more of a boost from a single-family home being created than an apartment. The National Association of Home Builders estimates that the average single-family home creates three jobs vs. one for the average apartment.

Part of the gain in April was (groan) due to the weather — multi-unit starts jumped in the Northeast and Midwest. But many economists see something more fundamental going on beyond a catch-up in demand.

“The march to live on top of each other rather than next door with sufficiently sized side yards continues. There are any number of factors behind this move to closer quarters, baby boomers tired of paying for lawn care, the demand for shorter commutes, and young people with credit good enough to pay high rent but not quite so good to afford a down payment and qualify for a mortgage,” said Steve Blitz, chief economist of ITG Investment Research.

link
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 18:05:37
May 21 2014 18:04 GMT
#21330
Again we don't need sweeping interventionist policies. Just give technology time to fix our problems without blowing up industry and modern lifestyle.

Op-Ed by pro fracking author

Source study

Again, judging by the content and comments you can see the area is very right leaning and I am proud. By coming to TL and hearing intelligent left leaning posters and their ideas is refreshing, I get the other side which is drowned out in certain areas/red states. Thank you.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
May 21 2014 18:06 GMT
#21331
I hope you realize that you are preaching a savior in suggesting that technology will one day come and save us from our problems. Such faith, while comforting, is a poor means of motivating public policy.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
May 21 2014 18:31 GMT
#21332
On May 22 2014 03:04 Wolfstan wrote:
Again we don't need sweeping interventionist policies. Just give technology time to fix our problems without blowing up industry and modern lifestyle.

Evil liberal climate change terrorists! They want to blow up our industry and bring us back into the stone age! Except for the part where they ehhm... don't
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 21 2014 18:57 GMT
#21333
On May 22 2014 02:47 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Are Americans giving up on the idea of a home in the suburbs for good? That’s the question economists are asking after April data showing a boom in multi-unit housing starts.

The chart above shows that the share of housing starts consisting of five-or-more unit buildings was 39% — the highest since February 1974. That’s important for a number of reasons, notably that on a per-unit basis, the economy gets more of a boost from a single-family home being created than an apartment. The National Association of Home Builders estimates that the average single-family home creates three jobs vs. one for the average apartment.

Part of the gain in April was (groan) due to the weather — multi-unit starts jumped in the Northeast and Midwest. But many economists see something more fundamental going on beyond a catch-up in demand.

“The march to live on top of each other rather than next door with sufficiently sized side yards continues. There are any number of factors behind this move to closer quarters, baby boomers tired of paying for lawn care, the demand for shorter commutes, and young people with credit good enough to pay high rent but not quite so good to afford a down payment and qualify for a mortgage,” said Steve Blitz, chief economist of ITG Investment Research.

link

We have studies that show that adults with student debt are much less likely to own a home, at the same time that we're seeing more student debt. I think (young) people would rather own their own home, but find it economically unfeasible or undesirable next to serious student debt obligations.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
May 21 2014 19:05 GMT
#21334
Good god... I can't believe something like this can still happen...

A 19-year-old Texas man could be facing the possibility of life in prison for allegedly baking and selling pot brownies.

According to police in Round Rock, a city north of Austin, officers found 1.5 pounds of brownies, along with a pound of marijuana, digital scales, $1,675 in cash and several bags of marijuana at Jacob Lavoro's apartment last month.

Now, Lavoro faces a first-degree felony and if convicted, the former high school football player with a clean record faces a possible punishment ranging from five years to life behind bars.

His father Joe Lavoro called the potential punishment “outrageous.”

“Five years to life? I’m sorry, I’m a law-abiding citizen, I’m a conservative, but I’ll be damned,” Joe Lavoro said. “This is wrong. This is damn wrong.”

Prosecutors say the charge is so severe because of Lavoro’s brownie recipe. Authorities say he mixed in hash oil, which features a far higher concentration of THC, the psychoactive component of marijuana. Under Texas law, the hash oil can be treated similarly to far more serious narcotics such as ecstasy.

Because the drops of oil were cooked into the brownies, police weighed the entire brownie batch – sugar, flour and butter – and charged him with possessing 1.5 pounds of drugs. (Texas science at it's finest...)

Jack Holmes, Lavoro’s defense attorney, believes the charge should be downgraded.

“They’ve weighed baked goods in this case,” Holmes said. “It ought to be a misdemeanor.”

Lavoro has pleaded not guilty. His father remains upset that prosecutors aren’t backing down.

“If he did something wrong, he should be punished, but to the extent that makes sense,” he said. “This is illogical.”

Lavoro is due back in court next month.

Source

Based on the charges this kid is looking at a minimum of 5 years of prison for POT!?!?


Then there is this sick fuck who doesn't get a single day in prison....

A Delaware man convicted of raping his three-year-old daughter only faced probation after a state Superior Court judge ruled he "will not fare well" in prison.

In her decision, Judge Jan Jurden suggested Robert H. Richards IV would benefit more from treatment. Richards, who was charged with fourth-degree rape in 2009, is an unemployed heir living off his trust fund. The light sentence has only became public as the result of a subsequent lawsuit filed by his ex-wife, which charges that he penetrated his daughter with his fingers while masturbating, and subsequently assaulted his son as well.

Richards is the great grandson of du Pont family patriarch Irenee du Pont, a chemical baron.

Source

Equal under the law my ass...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 20:00:16
May 21 2014 19:48 GMT
#21335
On May 22 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
I hope you realize that you are preaching a savior in suggesting that technology will one day come and save us from our problems. Such faith, while comforting, is a poor means of motivating public policy.


Yes, I would rather have scientists, engineers, and profit driven initiatives take on the file then bleeding heart, paper shuffling politicians. Having lower emissions today than 20 years ago shouldn't cause the eco-nuts to go into an alarmist state. Today's society is awesome and on a great path, let's not fuck with it. The fact that environment lobbyists are preventing oilsands crude from hitting market south, west and east really pisses me off. In pursuing obstructing private interests, job killing policies liberals are actually harming the environment more by making the crude flow on expensive, unsafe, and environmentally damaging rail, truck, sea than pipelines.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 20:07:24
May 21 2014 20:05 GMT
#21336
I think you vastly overestimate the ability of the proverbial common man to wipe his own ass.

The idea that free market forces can drive us towards adopting environmentally-friendly policy and technology has been pretty debunked. A company does not directly pay for pollution and damages because our planet's health is basically a tragedy of the commons thing. Thus, the lack of impact on their bottom line means they don't care.

I think I am fortunate enough that I will be able to get a job that will "be worth" my education after graduation (probably something over 200K, minus scholarships). I hope college prices don't go up any further though, because at the rate this stuff is going I see myself at the tail end of a the era where the middle class can afford higher education.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Roswell
Profile Joined November 2013
United States250 Posts
May 21 2014 20:10 GMT
#21337
On May 22 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
I hope you realize that you are preaching a savior in suggesting that technology will one day come and save us from our problems. Such faith, while comforting, is a poor means of motivating public policy.

A savior like redistribution of wealth to fund such science projects? Im on board for that. Redistribution of wealth is essential to all problems in our society, and if a path such as this is not taken I fear the economy, check that, the world will end by 2017. 5% of water allocation to california citizens is too much in my opinion, its moments like these where our role in protecting the earth is at the upmost importance.
"You are the bravest boy I have ever met"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-21 21:10:56
May 21 2014 21:08 GMT
#21338
On May 22 2014 05:10 Roswell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2014 03:06 farvacola wrote:
I hope you realize that you are preaching a savior in suggesting that technology will one day come and save us from our problems. Such faith, while comforting, is a poor means of motivating public policy.

A savior like redistribution of wealth to fund such science projects? Im on board for that. Redistribution of wealth is essential to all problems in our society, and if a path such as this is not taken I fear the economy, check that, the world will end by 2017. 5% of water allocation to california citizens is too much in my opinion, its moments like these where our role in protecting the earth is at the upmost importance.



Oh god if only your side of this issue actually WANTED to LISTEN to the scientists.....

+ Show Spoiler +
"The science has become more and more certain.Every year we’re more certain of what we’re seeing," explains Katharine Hayhoe, an atmospheric scientist and associate professor of political science at Texas Tech University. 97 percent of scientists agree that climate change is happening, and 95 percent of scientists believe that humans are the dominant cause. Think of it another way: over a dozen scientists, including the president of the National Academy of Sciences, told the AP that the scientific certainty regarding climate change is most similar to the confidence scientists have that cigarettes contribute to lung cancer. And yet as the scientific consensus becomes stronger, public opinion shows little movement.

In the beginning, there was a question: what had caused the glaciers that once blanketed the Earth to melt? During the Ice Age, which ended around 12,000 years ago, glacial ice covered one-third of the Earth's surface. How was it possible that the Earth's climate could have changed so drastically? [See why YEC's are so detrimental to this debate?]

In 1957, Hans Suess and Roger Revelle published an article in the scientific journal Tellus that proposed that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere had increased as a result of a post-Industrial Revolution burning of fossil fuels—buried, decaying organic matter that had been storing carbon dioxide for millions of years. But it wasn't clear how much of that newly released carbon dioxide was actually accumulating in the atmosphere, versus being absorbed by plants or the ocean. Charles David Keeling answered the question through careful CO2 measurements that charted exactly how much carbon dioxide was present in the atmosphere—and showed that the amount was unequivocally increasing.

In 1964, a group from the National Academy of Sciences set out to study the idea of changing the weather to suit various agricultural and military needs. What the group members concluded was that it was possible to change climate without meaning to—something they called "inadvertent modifications of weather and climate"—and they specifically cited carbon dioxide as a contributing factor.

Throughout much of the '70s and '80s, environmentalism focused on problems closer to home: water pollution, air quality and domestic wildlife conservation. And these issues weren't viewed through the fracturing political lens often used today—it was Republican President Richard Nixon who created the Environmental Protection Agency and signed the National Environmental Policy Act, the Endangered Species Act and a crucial extension of the Clean Air Act into law.

But as environmentalists championed other causes, scientists continued to study the greenhouse effect, a term coined by the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius in the late 1800s. In 1979, the National Academy of Sciences released the Charney Report, which stated that "a plethora of studies from diverse sources indicates a consensus that climate changes will result from man's combustion of fossil fuels and changes in land use."

The scientific revelations of the 1970s led to the creation of the IPCC, but they also caught the attention of the Marshall Institute, a conservative think tank founded by Robert Jastrow, William Nierenberg and Frederick Seitz. The men were accomplished scientists in their respective fields: Jastrow was the founder of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Nierenberg was the former director of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and Seitz was the former president of the United States National Academy of Sciences. The institute received funding from groups such as the Earhart Foundation and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, which supported conservative and free-market research (in recent years, the institute has received funding from Koch foundations). Its initial goal was to defend President Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative from scientific attacks, to convince the American public that scientists weren't united in their dismissal of the SDI, a persuasive tactic which enjoyed moderate success.

In 1989, when the Cold War ended and much of the Marshall Institute's projects were no longer relevant, the Institute began to focus on the issue of climate change, using the same sort of contrarianism to sow doubt in the mainstream media. It's a strategy that was adopted by President George W. Bush's administration and the Republican Party, typified when Republican consultant Frank Luntz wrote in a memo:

Show nested quote +
"Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate."

In a study of current media coverage, the Union of Concerned Scientists analyzed 24 cable news programs to determine the incidence of misleading climate change information. The right-leaning Fox News provided misinformation on climate change in 72 percent of its reporting on the issue; left-leaning MSNBC also provided misinformation in 8 percent of its climate change coverage, mostly from exaggerating claims. But the study found that even the nonpartisan CNN misrepresented climate change 30 percent of the time. Its sin? Featuring climate scientists and climate deniers in such a way that furthers the misconception that the debate is, in fact, still alive and well. According to Maibach, the continuing debate over climate science in the media explains why fewer than one in four Americans know how strong the scientific consensus on climate change really is.

a median of 54 percent of people placed global climate change as their top concern—in contrast, only 40 percent of Americans felt similarly. A 2013 global audit of climate change legislation stated that the United States' greenhouse gas emission reduction targets are "relatively modest when compared with other advanced economies." And "almost nowhere" else in the world, according to Bill McKibben in a recent Twitter chat with MSNBC's Chris Hayes, has there been the kind of political fracturing around climate change that we see in the United States.

Glaser agrees that the situation is complex, but feels that the media owes the public honesty, whether or not the truth can be deemed alarmist.

"I think the media probably should be alarmist. Maybe they haven’t been alarmist enough. It’s a tough balancing act, because if you present something to people and it’s a dire situation, and that’s the truth, they might just not want to accept it," he says. "That response, to say, 'This is just exaggerated,' is just another form of denial."

Climate change is a tragedy of the commons, meaning that it requires collective action that runs counter to individual desires. From a purely self-interested standpoint, it might not be in your best interest to give up red meat and stop flying on airplanes (or driving your own car whenever and wherever you want as cheap as possible) so that, say, all of Bangladesh can remain above sea level or southeast China doesn't completely dry out—that change requires empathy, selflessness and a long-term vision. That's not an easy way of thinking, and it runs counter to many Americans' strong sense of individualism. But by the time that every human on Earth suffers enough from the effects of rising temperatures that they can no longer ignore the problem, it will be too late.



Source


TL;DR: Scientists think ideas like yours and further right are, misguided, ignorant, and dangerous among other adjectives.

[image loading]

If you have any genuine interest in what scientists want to do, than shut up and listen to what they have been telling you for YEARS!....

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Roswell
Profile Joined November 2013
United States250 Posts
May 21 2014 21:35 GMT
#21339
Of course I do, I clearly do
[image loading]\
Im just, not sure if I have what it takes to stop climate change
"You are the bravest boy I have ever met"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42786 Posts
May 21 2014 21:42 GMT
#21340
On May 22 2014 00:44 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2014 00:21 Roswell wrote:
On May 21 2014 08:03 KwarK wrote:
On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:
-_-

Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363

So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.

Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge?

I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.

Reality clearly has a liberal bias.

You're not getting this. Every other country taxes gas more than you. These countries still have functioning economies. Your theory < reality. There is no point speculating about what might happen, you can just go take a look, denying reality and making up your own answers is idiotic when you can just look and see what happened.

I am so done with you. Never said it couldn't function, its just a horrid idea. And everyone else's "answer" is holding hands and encouraging greener attitudes? This is the real world, people will cheat and get around any stupid system you put. HOV lanes cause more accidents than on ramp lanes, because people slide in and out. Do the math? Take a 6 lane highway and subtract 2 lanes for 90% of drivers. That is 6 minus 2 which equals 4 lanes. Increasing diesel tax because they pollute... gimme a break.

Last I heard in Highschool the earth was supposed to be in climatic disaster with droughts wiping out countries, but ofc "those" predictions were all wrong 10 - 20 years ago, now we really have the prediction stuff down to a science. I'm gonna leave my lights on tonight cause I'm scared of global warming. Oh shit that adds to global warming!

But keep shitting on hard working folks because it makes you feel better.

congratulations you typed all that without ever mentioning anything about Kwarks point aside from "gimme a break"

Or explaining how "gas prices are demon high" can be reconciled with "gas prices are literally the lowest of any first world country" without needing some kind of special snowflake logic.
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