|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
** Disclaimer** Just to be clear I'm not trying to pick on this guy and my net from the experience was more respect for him....
Ok... So I was watching an interview with Charles Krauthammer and I noticed he was talking quietly and seemed to be struggling to get enough air.
I thought he might be sick or something so I watched more to see if it was a pattern, it was, but it did seem worse, so I googled if he was sick.
This is when I found out two three four 5 things I didn't previously know/notice:
1. Charles Krauthammer has a freakish resemblance to Damien from The Mask
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AlHjjRx.jpg)
2. The guy is in a wheel chair from a car accident during med school (Much respect for finishing med school after that no matter what kind of help he had.)
3. I have never seen the mans upper teeth....EVER....and I couldn't find a single image of him exposing them ever.
4. Bill O'Reilly does the same thing (hiding his teeth) but has slipped up on very few occasions.
5. When I spell Bill O'Reilly as "Bill O'Rielly" my spell check offers up "Jellyroll" as the only option for replacement...
Forgot the relevant part: Krauthammer on the gas tax...
+ Show Spoiler + I have been advocating the cure: a U.S. energy tax as a way to curtail consumption and keep the money at home. On this page in May 2004 (and again in November 2005), I called for "the government -- through a tax -- to establish a new floor for gasoline," by fully taxing any drop in price below a certain benchmark. The point was to suppress demand and to keep the savings (from any subsequent world price drop) at home in the U.S. Treasury rather than going abroad. At the time, oil was $41 a barrel. It is now $123.
But instead of doing the obvious -- tax the damn thing -- we go through spasms of destructive alternatives, such as efficiency standards, ethanol mandates and now a crazy carbon cap-and-trade system the Senate is debating this week. These are infinitely complex mandates for inefficiency and invitations to corruption. But they have a singular virtue: They hide the cost to the American consumer.
Want to wean us off oil? Be open and honest. The British are paying $8 a gallon for petrol. Goldman Sachs is predicting we will be paying $6 by next year. Why have the extra $2 (above the current $4) go abroad? Have it go to the U.S. Treasury as a gasoline tax and be recycled back into lower payroll taxes.
Announce a schedule of gas tax hikes of 50 cents every six months for the next two years. And put a tax floor under $4 gasoline, so that as high gas prices transform the U.S. auto fleet, change driving habits and thus hugely reduce U.S. demand -- and bring down world crude oil prices -- the American consumer and the American economy reap all of the
Source
|
United States44190 Posts
-_-
Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363
So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.
|
Gas here in BC is about $1.30-$1.50.
And we are seeing a large shift in attitudes towards the need for driving, though gas prices are only one factor.
|
It's a little more than just exceptionalism. You need to roll this Rubik's Cube around a bit and see which industries suffer when gas prices increase - car companies, tourism, shipping, manufacturing, etc. Increasing energy prices hits the poor very hard in summer and winter, which should hit harder if you believe in climate change and that seasons are getting more extreme.
Doing this has its benefits, and you could argue those outweigh the costs, but to say it has no negative impacts is patently false.
|
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.
LA LA LA LA LA LA
You make a good point, Kwark, but I can't hear you over the self importance of Muhrica!
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
gas tax is not only to lower emission but also encourage more energy efficient city design. suburban commute is pretty damn inefficient. it is regressive though
|
If we follow Weitzman's price versus quantity, then it is not the time to tax gas but rather to vote for laws on quantity and forbid some industries / individuals from using more than a certain amount of gas a year.
Taxation is only really relevant when the "inclinaison" (i m stuggling to find the english Ord) of the curve of marginal damage is not too straight. As we now are in rather critical situation, considering the amount of asthma and other various respiratory problems we are facing, considering that in some city the pollution is so bad that life expectancy is going down for the first time in a long time, I guess it is the moment to do something quite more than just a taxation.
|
I think a lot of you are missing the point. The federal gas tax is our primary source of funding for road and transportation repair and improvements. A lot of that is lagging behind because the tax hasn't kept up with price/inflation. That is my (and others') reasoning behind seeing the raise. The pollution and other secondary benefits are just a bonus.
|
On May 20 2014 22:45 aksfjh wrote:
I think a lot of you are missing the point. The federal gas tax is our primary source of funding for road and transportation repair and improvements. A lot of that is lagging behind because the tax hasn't kept up with price/inflation. That is my (and others') reasoning behind seeing the raise. The pollution and other secondary benefits are just a bonus.
Well atm the real problem is pollution, and making it a secondary objective is a bad idea imo. Nothing set in stone force the gov to finance road maintenance with a taxation on gas.
|
On May 20 2014 22:51 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 22:45 aksfjh wrote:
I think a lot of you are missing the point. The federal gas tax is our primary source of funding for road and transportation repair and improvements. A lot of that is lagging behind because the tax hasn't kept up with price/inflation. That is my (and others') reasoning behind seeing the raise. The pollution and other secondary benefits are just a bonus. Well atm the real problem is pollution, and making it a secondary objective is a bad idea imo. Nothing set in stone force the gov to finance road maintenance with a taxation on gas.
It's current law, actually. Just like Social Security tax is supposed to pay for Social Security... I understand it works much different in modern government accounting practice, but it's much easier to sell the tax that way. Also, we have 33-40% of our population that will hate on a proposed change on the mere basis that it improves the environment as some "socialist agenda taking away freedoms." The more we play it as a civic duty/cost, the better chance it has of being adopted. (Yay US politics...)
|
The thing with gas taxes and similar taxes it that they're essentially regressive because the poor and middle class will have to spend a higher percentage of their income on them than high earners. If those taxes should increase there should at least be a public alternative for people already in place.(which in the US probably isn't the case everywhere)
I think stronger regulations for car manufacturers and/or incentives for companies that produce environment friendly cars would be more consumer friendly than increasing the gas tax. If more money is needed to repair the infrastructure it would probably make more sense to increase the income tax / taxes on wealth than to tax consumer goods.
|
On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries.
Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge?
I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.
|
On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries. Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge? I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind.
Keep pretending the rest of the world does not exist. Im sure that will solve all your problems.
|
On May 21 2014 00:28 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries. Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge? I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind. Keep pretending the rest of the world does not exist. Im sure that will solve all your problems.
$500, is now $600. The hauling company is now going to charge 1.2 times more for this retailer, I'm sure this store or company, will gladly sacrifice this loss of money and sell the product what it did cost before the tax, (because global warming and the fight for the future.) But why argue when you can just name call people? I'll keep playing that game... So I take it you think "Imagine" is a better song than "A Day In The Life?" Cause it doesn't sound like a privileged middle school girl finding out that people in third world countries suffer and by damnit shes gonna say something. Why argue if you dont actually debate?
|
On May 21 2014 00:37 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 00:28 Gorsameth wrote:On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries. Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge? I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind. Keep pretending the rest of the world does not exist. Im sure that will solve all your problems. $500, is now $600. The hauling company is now going to charge 1.2 times more for this retailer, I'm sure this store or company, will gladly sacrifice this loss of money and sell the product what it did cost before the tax, (because global warming and the fight for the future.) But why argue when you can just name call people? I'll keep playing that game... So I take it you think "Imagine" is a better song than "A Day In The Life?" Cause it doesn't sound like a privileged middle school girl finding out that people in third world countries suffer and by damnit shes gonna say something. Why argue if you dont actually debate?
The US has some of the lowest gas prices in the world. The rest of the world seems to be surviving with there higher price.
The US will survive with a higher price if taxes on gas are increased.
I know its hard to follow. But hey you will just reply saying that the US position is unique (newsflash, its not).
|
On May 21 2014 00:37 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 00:28 Gorsameth wrote:On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries. Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge? I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind. Keep pretending the rest of the world does not exist. Im sure that will solve all your problems. $500, is now $600. The hauling company is now going to charge 1.2 times more for this retailer, I'm sure this store or company, will gladly sacrifice this loss of money and sell the product what it did cost before the tax, (because global warming and the fight for the future.) But why argue when you can just name call people? I'll keep playing that game... So I take it you think "Imagine" is a better song than "A Day In The Life?" Cause it doesn't sound like a privileged middle school girl finding out that people in third world countries suffer and by damnit shes gonna say something. Why argue if you dont actually debate?
Lol really man, you should probably just stop. Besides whats already been pointed out by others this is another instance of you not doing the math.... I guess we can ignore that you raised fuel prices by 20% and what has been suggested so far is an increase of fuel cost of ~5-10% max But you can keep playing if you want? What product is on your imaginary truck who's fuel cost has gone up?
|
It's Mini Super Tuesday everyone.
|
On May 21 2014 01:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It's Mini Super Tuesday everyone.
Should be interesting to see who wins, the GOP or Tea Party...
I'm not sure which one would be better... The GOP is more likely to make sane compromises (Not Reject a 10:1 offer)
But the Tea Party winning could make sure there isn't a Republican president for at least 8 more years (Maybe a decent candidate could finally get traction over there?)....
|
On May 21 2014 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 00:37 Roswell wrote:On May 21 2014 00:28 Gorsameth wrote:On May 21 2014 00:19 Roswell wrote:On May 20 2014 15:58 KwarK wrote:-_- Actually gas prices could get significantly higher with no negative impacts. Gas prices in the United States are actually pretty much the lowest and the least taxed in the world. Gas prices in the US work out about £0.57 a litre on average although £0.53/litre at the lowest on the gulf coast. The EU average is £1.27 with the UK being £1.30 and the highest being Italy at £1.43. Only Nigeria and Venezuela have lower. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363So no, check your American exceptionalism, open your eyes, learn about the world and maybe find out that your claims are not only wrong but also that they conflict with established facts which are commonplace and known to pretty much everyone who knows about other countries. Way to give examples to support your claim and not just throw out a bunch of empty nonsense. If you raise the the price of gasoline, (especially diesel,) with a tax you are only going to increase the cost of goods. What do you think happens in the real world? If it costs a company $500 to haul a load across the country and now it costs $600 what do you think that retailer is going to charge? I feel like most of you guys have Captain Planet on in your homes 24/7. Why not put on some TCM or at least Buffy. "Open your eyes, learn about the world," truly I will thanks for expanding my mind. Keep pretending the rest of the world does not exist. Im sure that will solve all your problems. $500, is now $600. The hauling company is now going to charge 1.2 times more for this retailer, I'm sure this store or company, will gladly sacrifice this loss of money and sell the product what it did cost before the tax, (because global warming and the fight for the future.) But why argue when you can just name call people? I'll keep playing that game... So I take it you think "Imagine" is a better song than "A Day In The Life?" Cause it doesn't sound like a privileged middle school girl finding out that people in third world countries suffer and by damnit shes gonna say something. Why argue if you dont actually debate? Lol really man, you should probably just stop. Besides whats already been pointed out by others this is another instance of you not doing the math.... I guess we can ignore that you raised fuel prices by 20% and what has been suggested so far is an increase of fuel cost of ~5-10% max But you can keep playing if you want? What product is on your imaginary truck who's fuel cost has gone up?
Raising diesel prices will increase almost all prices for goods, do you really not see that?
|
Look if a state urgently needs money to fix roads, then raising a tax on diesel makes sense, (barring it doesnt go to some other agency.) But just doing it for global warming is a fucking terrible idea, and it would raise the cost of goods and product.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
