US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1043

On May 07 2014 15:30 WhiteDog wrote:

Jonny ? Arguments ? I thought he only ask questions.

On May 07 2014 18:08 oneofthem wrote:
RE: doctor's standard, it's a question of whether it is his place to determine disability standard, or if the standard is meant to be filled in by the legal structure, and he's there to provide a physical description.

i'm really not sure about who's right here, but this is the basic working distinction that turns the question.

On May 07 2014 18:15 oneofthem wrote:
i was talking about whether the doctor's idea that the degree of physical infirmity that qualifies as disability is dependent on the person's background.

taken as an abstract standard, i think it is true. however, taking who's assigning the standard, we have the question of whether the doctor is not stepping over his bounded duties in a system that has a judge in it to determine just this standards question.

On May 07 2014 18:03 coverpunch wrote:

You should try to answer your question with the opposite extreme hypothetical. Say you have a perfectly healthy 25 year old who simply doesn't want to work and they apply for worker's compensation claiming they are lazy. Should the government give it to this person, even though they clearly do not qualify for it and has no justification to receive money paid by everyone else?

On May 07 2014 18:34 oneofthem wrote:
i'm not sure if there has been studies done, but the info source for determining what teh right number should be, with absolute case by case precision, is itself used in determining who's currently assigned disability.

if you just look at teh state by state numbers, it does suggest a pretty large spread in the variable portion of disability. there's another chart that shows the type of thing granted disability, and back pain / mental stuff are more dependent on subjective reports than injury. while we don't want to call the difference fraud per se, it does show some flexibility in the standard used.

from working with administrative courts and some lawyers who do this stuff, it seems like the process is pretty uneven and judge dependent. you are also faced with different and conflicting local govt loyalties.


let's not take lightly this issue though. having people who can work in some capacity on disability is not the optimal solution, you'd probably want a world in which there are such job types for these people to fill. it's also not fulfilling for these people themselves to be on disability when they could work.

On May 07 2014 18:34 oneofthem wrote:
i'm not sure if there has been studies done, but the info source for determining what teh right number should be, with absolute case by case precision, is itself used in determining who's currently assigned disability.

if you just look at teh state by state numbers, it does suggest a pretty large spread in the variable portion of disability. there's another chart that shows the type of thing granted disability, and back pain / mental stuff are more dependent on subjective reports than injury. while we don't want to call the difference fraud per se, it does show some flexibility in the standard used.

from working with administrative courts and some lawyers who do this stuff, it seems like the process is pretty uneven and judge dependent. you are also faced with different and conflicting local govt loyalties.


let's not take lightly this issue though. having people who can work in some capacity on disability is not the optimal solution, you'd probably want a world in which there are such job types for these people to fill. it's also not fulfilling for these people themselves to be on disability when they could work.

On May 07 2014 18:50 oneofthem wrote:
well if you are putting the burden of 'having a number' on people who think there's an issue, that seems a bit hard to do.

what interpretation would you have with respect to the different state by state numbers? economic climate is certainly a part, but it should only affect # of applicants maybe.

there are sites (disability lawyers like this sort of data) on approval rates by region. shows a big spread as well

On May 07 2014 19:08 oneofthem wrote:
it's not mysterious at all. this number is hard to get to and requires a lot of analysis. i dont see the need for a headcount number when we have a lot of prima facie indication of potential issue though. your explanation of the variation is rather unconvincing.

also several of the factors you mentioned are merged into a difference in applicant number. the rate of approval should indicate a standards/process problem.

im in the middle of some stuff and just postin here to procrastinate. you can do some research on the rate stats shouldnt be hard to find on a state level basis. there are records kept on per judge basis but idk if there is access to those

On May 07 2014 19:54 GreenHorizons wrote:


Why did you post that npr piece again? this time without even an explanation?

On May 07 2014 20:23 RCMDVA wrote:


Posted early w/o edit. Doing some hearthstone dailies.

1) The system allows you to try as many times as you want to get on disability.

2) The system isn't adversarial.

3) The States want you to get off state-aid and be declared disabled.

4) Once you get on disability you *almost never* get back into the workforce.

This might be one of the best articles on disability that highlights all the unintended consequences of "Ending Welfare as we know it"