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On March 19 2018 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do liberals really think McCabe shouldn't have been fired or just that Republicans are being blindly tribal and hypocritical about it?
No. If McCabe did what he was theoretically fired for, then he should have been fired. But that should have happened a while ago - the alleged malfeasance was in the summer of 2016.
Instead, he got fired just before he would have qualified for his pension, after having announced his retirement due to pressure from Trump, and Trump continuing to gun for him. The problem isn't necessarily that McCabe was fired, it's how and when he was fired that I object to.
In the context of tweets like this, McCabe getting fired right before he qualifies for his pension looks like retaliation against McCabe for not kowtowing to Trump, and that's not acceptable.
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On March 19 2018 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do liberals really think McCabe shouldn't have been fired or just that Republicans are being blindly tribal and hypocritical about it?
Considering we don't even know if he did what he was accused of, I'd say it was pretty premature. And knowing this administration, it's likely that he didn't do it, and something he did do was twisted in a way that makes him look bad. It's what they've done with literally everything from "unmasking", to FISA, to the dossier, to a host of other things. It's par for the course.
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He had already stepped down over a month ago and was completely out of the picture. As Kyadytim said, it's not just that he was fired, but the timing and subsequent gloating about the firing comes off as unethical partisan vindictiveness.
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On March 19 2018 04:09 Ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do liberals really think McCabe shouldn't have been fired or just that Republicans are being blindly tribal and hypocritical about it? Considering we don't even know if he did what he was accused of, I'd say it was pretty premature. And knowing this administration, it's likely that he didn't do it, and something he did do was twisted in a way that makes him look bad. It's what they've done with literally everything from "unmasking", to FISA, to the dossier, to a host of other things. It's par for the course.
Sessions says he is following the recommendations of the IG report in firing McCabe. So either Sessions is lying, the IG is in on it and lying or McCabe did something wrong.
What is questionable is if he should have been fired or just wait for 2 days and the problem goes away.
Especially combined with Trumps tweets and his known grudge holding vindictive attitude.
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On March 19 2018 04:04 Kyadytim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do liberals really think McCabe shouldn't have been fired or just that Republicans are being blindly tribal and hypocritical about it? No. If McCabe did what he was theoretically fired for, then he should have been fired. But that should have happened a while ago - the alleged malfeasance was in the summer of 2016. Instead, he got fired just before he would have qualified for his pension, after having announced his retirement due to pressure from Trump, and Trump continuing to gun for him. The problem isn't necessarily that McCabe was fired, it's how and when he was fired that I object to. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890207082926022656https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/944666448185692166In the context of tweets like this, McCabe getting fired right before he qualifies for his pension looks like retaliation against McCabe for not kowtowing to Trump, and that's not acceptable.
That's interesting, I've heard the exact opposite argued on MSNBC (edit: and Ayaz it seems). That instead this was too fast of a judgement.
I wonder how common your perception is among liberals. It sure looks retaliatory, but the punishment is keeping someone who (wasn't working at the time btw) from coasting out an elongated investigation of which it appears the recommendation was firing him, from collecting a lifetime pension.
McCabe was a longtime member of the FBI and participated in some of it's egregious violations of people's constitutional rights sometimes with the permission of the PATRIOT act sometimes disregarding laws and procedures altogether. It's unfortunate he was fired under the circumstances he was, but him being fired should be celebrated not lamented. Lament away at Trump's and Republicans' hypocrisy (for whatever that's worth), but I really don't get the people lamenting him being deprived his lifetime pension or speculating about how he could scheme his way around it like it would be a good thing.
EDIT: reading some of the other responses I then just don't get what the big deal is at all?
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Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justified
EDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts.
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On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer. Show nested quote +
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts.
This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing?
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On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer. Show nested quote +
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts.
Its not a secret reason? The IG report recommended his firing. Either Sessions is lying (which would be dumb since the report will come out or the IG will correct him), the IG is lying (I assume his report will have evidence to support his conclusion) or McCabe did something wrong.
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On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you?
All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough.
Heaven forbid a man collects his pension.
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On March 19 2018 04:51 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you? All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough. Heaven forbid a man collects his pension.
So that's a yes from you then.
There's quite a lot of space between burning them at the stake and some reasonable form of accountability. Not paying him for the rest of his life is a small victory.
On March 19 2018 05:03 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm also skeptical of the whole "people are fundamentally selfish and corrupt" (We've seen societies that had limited or no contact with the 'modern' world until relatively recently (last couple hundred years) that demonstrated plenty of quirks and issues, but finding greed and corruption are not as universally found (nor in the same degree) in humans as I think capitalism would like you to think. But that's a bit of a separate discussion.
I'm not
k
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I'm also skeptical of the whole "people are fundamentally selfish and corrupt" (We've seen societies that had limited or no contact with the 'modern' world until relatively recently (last couple hundred years) that demonstrated plenty of quirks and issues, but finding greed and corruption are not as universally found (nor in the same degree) in humans as I think capitalism would like you to think. But that's a bit of a separate discussion.
I'm not
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On March 19 2018 04:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:51 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you? All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough. Heaven forbid a man collects his pension. So that's a yes from you then. There's quite a lot of space between burning them at the stake and some reasonable form of accountability. Not paying him for the rest of his life is a small victory.
Kinda funny to see "reasonable" and "he did something wrong, so lets forget 30-40 years (however many it is) of service" in the same sentence.
Funny, or moronic. Feel free to choose.
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On March 19 2018 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. Its not a secret reason? The IG report recommended his firing. Either Sessions is lying (which would be dumb since the report will come out or the IG will correct him), the IG is lying (I assume his report will have evidence to support his conclusion) or McCabe did something wrong.
Do you have a link to the report? And do you think Trump read it? I am not denying the existence of a pretextual memo to provide cover for Trump's desired results. I do think it exists. I think it will be (1) bullshit like the previous pretextual memos and (2) something that the President did not read in making his decision.
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On March 19 2018 05:07 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:51 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you? All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough. Heaven forbid a man collects his pension. So that's a yes from you then. There's quite a lot of space between burning them at the stake and some reasonable form of accountability. Not paying him for the rest of his life is a small victory. Kinda funny to see "reasonable" and "he did something wrong, so lets forget 30-40 years (however many it is) of service" in the same sentence. Funny, or moronic. Feel free to choose.
you understand that I challenge the idea that his "service" was in our best interests, or even legal in the first place right?
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On March 19 2018 05:10 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. Its not a secret reason? The IG report recommended his firing. Either Sessions is lying (which would be dumb since the report will come out or the IG will correct him), the IG is lying (I assume his report will have evidence to support his conclusion) or McCabe did something wrong. Do you have a link to the report? And do you think Trump read it? I am not denying the existence of a pretextual memo to provide cover for Trump's desired results. I do think it exists. I think it will be (1) bullshit like the previous pretextual memos and (2) something that the President did not read in making his decision. No, as far as I know it hasn't been publicly released, nor do I know if it will (considering it is likely full of classified information).
As I mentioned previously I think this provided a convenient cover for something Trump wanted to do anyway but that doesn't mean the IG report is fake.
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On March 19 2018 05:10 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. Its not a secret reason? The IG report recommended his firing. Either Sessions is lying (which would be dumb since the report will come out or the IG will correct him), the IG is lying (I assume his report will have evidence to support his conclusion) or McCabe did something wrong. Do you have a link to the report? And do you think Trump read it? I am not denying the existence of a pretextual memo to provide cover for Trump's desired results. I do think it exists. I think it will be (1) bullshit like the previous pretextual memos and (2) something that the President did not read in making his decision.
Ding ding ding!
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On March 19 2018 04:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:51 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you? All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough. Heaven forbid a man collects his pension. So that's a yes from you then. There's quite a lot of space between burning them at the stake and some reasonable form of accountability. Not paying him for the rest of his life is a small victory.
Even if people are held "accountable" capriciously at the political whims of the party in charge? Yeah count me out.
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On March 19 2018 07:00 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 04:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:51 Gorsameth wrote:On March 19 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2018 04:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Trump's words and actions make it super clear that firing McCabe was about Comey/Mueller. But some Trump loyalists at the DOJ have cobbled together a pretextual reason to fire McCabe that has not yet been revealed. Even further, Trump has demonstrated no actual knowledge of the secrete pretextual reason. But because of the secret pretextual reason, some people choose to pretend like the obvious answer provided by Trump in his own tweets is not the correct answer.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said on ABC’s “This Week” said he’s waiting to see more information on McCabe’s dismissal before making an ultimate judgment. Democrats and ex-intelligence officials have roundly criticized the decision by Attorney General Jeff Sessions — seen as imposed by President Trump — to fire McCabe two days before his pension would have vested.
“You know, his firing may be justified,” Schiff said.
“There's no way for us to know at this point, but even though it may have been justified, it can also be tainted. And I think the president's badgering of the attorney general, his urging that he be fired before his pension could vest, and the fact that McCabe and every other of the James Comey associates … who corroborate James Comey on the issue of potential obstruction of justice, every one of them has been targeted by the administration, by the Republicans and Congress. And is this because they corroborate James Comey? That's a question we also have to answer.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/adam-schiff-andrew-mccabes-firing-may-be-justifiedEDIT: this all should feel familiar. We should all remember when DAG Rosenstein wrote the pretextual memo justifying Comey's firing. DAG argued that since Comey was unfair to HRC, Comey should be fired. DJT then quickly came out and tweeted that that was not the case, and that Comey was fired because he wouldn't close down the Russia thing and because he wouldn't pledge his fealty to DJT personally. The usual suspects pretended like the DAG's memo wasn't a pretext for two weeks, and then they went silent as DJT repeatedly reinforced that firing Comey was about Russia. There will be a pretextual memo soon. It should be dismissed out of hand just like the previous pretexts. This is sorta what I'm not getting; would Democrats/liberals want McCabe not to be fired and to instead collect a lifetime pension if he didn't do whatever is being cited as the reason for his firing? God, your really digging into this anti-FBI binge arn't you? All of them must burn at the stake in public or its not good enough. Heaven forbid a man collects his pension. So that's a yes from you then. There's quite a lot of space between burning them at the stake and some reasonable form of accountability. Not paying him for the rest of his life is a small victory. Even if people are held "accountable" capriciously at the political whims of the party in charge? Yeah count me out.
Like I said, lament the way it happened all you want. I don't think it really ranks very high on the list of unbelievably messed up stuff Trump is doing, but I get what's problematic about it.
That's why I asked the question. I was getting the impression people were empathizing with McCabe rather than just making a point about the procedural/personal issues. As some of the responses indicated, some were empathizing and thinking he should get a lifetime pension for his 'service', which is something I obviously disagree with.
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It seems like a matter of accidental vs purposeful justice. If some corrupt guy gets fired only because the president doesn't like him, is that really justice? It seems like the entire broken justice system is based on moves like these...the people deserving of guilt and innocence aren't getting punished / exonerated by a just system, but on the winds of political whims.
Unimportant people aren't given a second thought and are sent through the judicial meat grinder on a daily basis. Is one person getting fired like this really a triumph? Or more of a sad accident?
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On March 19 2018 07:39 mierin wrote:
It seems like a matter of accidental vs purposeful justice. If some corrupt guy gets fired only because the president doesn't like him, is that really justice? It seems like the entire broken justice system is based on moves like these...the people deserving of guilt and innocence aren't getting punished / exonerated by a just system, but on the winds of political whims.
Unimportant people aren't given a second thought and are sent through the judicial meat grinder on a daily basis. Is one person getting fired like this really a triumph? Or more of a sad accident?
I'd go with 'sad accident' presuming the sad is in reference to the pathetic nature of the just outcome in relation to the encroachments and the way it happened...and the way liberals responded.
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EPT
