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On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 04:27 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 04:21 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 04:18 Cuce wrote:
[quote]
when did war helped anybody?
I never said targeting civilians were helping palantenians. same goes for israel. if no other options are available to them, you gotta stop and think again before accusing people of mindless bloodlust. Why is no other option available? why cant they merge with the PLO and actually hold negotiations? As long as they are violent (and that's 100% in Hamas's interest) nothing will be accomplished. because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise. The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians.
...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right.
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I do stand by Palestine,however i think a cease-fire is necessary.Innocent kids and women are suffering for no discernable reason.
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On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 04:27 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 04:21 Goozen wrote:
[quote]
Why is no other option available? why cant they merge with the PLO and actually hold negotiations? As long as they are violent (and that's 100% in Hamas's interest) nothing will be accomplished. because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise. The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right.
Small caveat, I believe you mean that both things should *not* be condoned >.<
But wow......things are getting kind of ridiculous over there right now 
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On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 04:27 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 04:21 Goozen wrote:
[quote]
Why is no other option available? why cant they merge with the PLO and actually hold negotiations? As long as they are violent (and that's 100% in Hamas's interest) nothing will be accomplished. because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise. The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right.
If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace.
If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard.
Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE.
They would have accepted a 2 state system in Palestine. It's the Palestinians who called in their Arab possy to get all of Palestine and they lost. No shit Israel would take the land they won in the war, why wouldn't they? That's not them stealing land, that's the Palestinians taking a bad gamble with their cake. You can't gamble your cake to try to win 2 cakes, lose it and call the winner a thief.
P.S. There has never been such a thing as Palestinian land, they've never been the owners of that land. This is irrelevant to the current discussion but I wanted to point it out.
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On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 04:27 Cuce wrote:
[quote]
because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise. The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE.
lulz
wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right
link: click me for maps!
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On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps!
lulz, not only is this not mutually exclusive with what I'm saying, it supports it.
Israel would give up land for peace. But that option is not available to them so the only other option is to weaken the opposition to the point where they are no longer a threat, as I've been saying all along.
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On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps!
Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html
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On November 18 2012 07:39 3DGlaDOS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:
[quote]
You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps! Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html
do you want to have a discussion about the page you linked to? because that is what is about to happen
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On November 18 2012 07:44 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:39 3DGlaDOS wrote:On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps! Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html do you want to have a discussion about the page you linked to? because that is what is about to happen
I'd love to hear what you have to say, considering the concept of Palestinian land doesn't even make sense.
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On November 18 2012 07:39 3DGlaDOS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:
[quote]
You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps! Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html
bookmarked so hard
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On November 18 2012 07:48 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:44 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:39 3DGlaDOS wrote:On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:
[quote]
The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps! Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html do you want to have a discussion about the page you linked to? because that is what is about to happen I'd love to hear what you have to say, considering the concept of Palestinian land doesn't even make sense.
I love when some Americans get so heated about Israel "stealing" land from Palestinians when they don't give 2 shits about Native Americans... lol
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On November 18 2012 07:44 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:39 3DGlaDOS wrote:On November 18 2012 07:33 travis wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. lulz wtf for some reason the image isn't fitting right link: click me for maps! Yeah this map comes up at every discussion about Israel. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.de/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html do you want to have a discussion about the page you linked to? because that is what is about to happen
I'd rather talk about the content of the page.
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that page makes pretty good sense to me what confuse's you about the land owning system that they had going?
the arab elements in the country decide to go to war instead of peace and lose land because of this. even after this isreal offers up land to anyone willing to make peace with them. Its not like there's some malicious intent on isreal like they wanted all the land around them.
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On November 18 2012 07:51 Sermokala wrote:
that page makes pretty good sense to me what confuse's you about the land owning system that they had going?
the arab elements in the country decide to go to war instead of peace and lose land because of this. even after this isreal offers up land to anyone willing to make peace with them. Its not like there's some malicious intent on isreal like they wanted all the land around them.
Exactly this, can't take anyone that talks about Israel stealing land seriously. If you fight a war with the intent to take someone else's land and you lose, the land you lose was "stolen"? Wtf logic.
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On November 18 2012 07:53 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:51 Sermokala wrote:
that page makes pretty good sense to me what confuse's you about the land owning system that they had going?
the arab elements in the country decide to go to war instead of peace and lose land because of this. even after this isreal offers up land to anyone willing to make peace with them. Its not like there's some malicious intent on isreal like they wanted all the land around them. Exactly this, can't take anyone that talks about Israel stealing land seriously. If you fight a war with the intent to take someone else's land and you lose, the land you lose was "stolen"? Wtf logic.
It wasn't even for land. the arab states wanted to murder all the Jews they could. its only by the skin of their teeth that the isrealies managed to hold at the Golan highs to prevent the largest wholesale genocide the world had ever seen. Whats even worse is that they did this over and over again. Do people understand why there might be some punishment or consequences for the arab states for the genocide that they tried to do 3 times over?
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On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 04:27 Cuce wrote:
[quote]
because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise. The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. They would have accepted a 2 state system in Palestine. It's the Palestinians who called in their Arab possy to get all of Palestine and they lost. No shit Israel would take the land they won in the war, why wouldn't they? That's not them stealing land, that's the Palestinians taking a bad gamble with their cake. You can't gamble your cake to try to win 2 cakes, lose it and call the winner a thief. P.S. There has never been such a thing as Palestinian land, they've never been the owners of that land. This is irrelevant to the current discussion but I wanted to point it out.
Israel has continually taken land from Palestine. This has continued in recent years as well, most notably after Oslo Accords which bans Israel from taking land in the West Bank, however it does not stop building settlements.
Israel has been continually condemned for their actions in taking away land by the United Nations, United States, Russia, United Kingdom, and various other organizations. To say that they won ALL those settlements through the usage of war is completely wrong, they have used various other methods.
If Arabs dropped their arms, yes there would be peace. But that is what I am trying to say, it is hard for Arabs to drop their arms against a country that has blockaded ports, dropped white phosphorous, and took away land illegally. Personally, I feel as though it is Palestine's responsibility to get rid of Hamas and other terror organizations that continually deride peace talks, and come together for a two-state solution, something Israel would gladly accept in my opinion.
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On November 18 2012 07:59 Housemd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. They would have accepted a 2 state system in Palestine. It's the Palestinians who called in their Arab possy to get all of Palestine and they lost. No shit Israel would take the land they won in the war, why wouldn't they? That's not them stealing land, that's the Palestinians taking a bad gamble with their cake. You can't gamble your cake to try to win 2 cakes, lose it and call the winner a thief. P.S. There has never been such a thing as Palestinian land, they've never been the owners of that land. This is irrelevant to the current discussion but I wanted to point it out. Israel has continually taken land from Palestine. This has continued in recent years as well, most notably after Oslo Accords which bans Israel from taking land in the West Bank, however it does not stop building settlements. Israel has been continually condemned for their actions in taking away land by the United Nations, United States, Russia, United Kingdom, and various other organizations. To say that they won ALL those settlements through the usage of war is completely wrong, they have used various other methods. If Arabs dropped their arms, yes there would be peace. But that is what I am trying to say, it is hard for Arabs to drop their arms against a country that has blockaded ports, dropped white phosphorous, and took away land illegally. Personally, I feel as though it is Palestine's responsibility to get rid of Hamas and other terror organizations that continually deride peace talks, and come together for a two-state solution, something Israel would gladly accept in my opinion.
Again, the Arabs tried 3 times to go into Israel and kill everyone. You do not think the Israeli's are justified to respond with blockading ports, taking land to strengthen their strategic position and dropping some bombs?
If you can't even stand getting slapped on the wrist don't try to throw a grenade at someone's face.
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On November 18 2012 08:05 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:59 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:
[quote]
You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. They would have accepted a 2 state system in Palestine. It's the Palestinians who called in their Arab possy to get all of Palestine and they lost. No shit Israel would take the land they won in the war, why wouldn't they? That's not them stealing land, that's the Palestinians taking a bad gamble with their cake. You can't gamble your cake to try to win 2 cakes, lose it and call the winner a thief. P.S. There has never been such a thing as Palestinian land, they've never been the owners of that land. This is irrelevant to the current discussion but I wanted to point it out. Israel has continually taken land from Palestine. This has continued in recent years as well, most notably after Oslo Accords which bans Israel from taking land in the West Bank, however it does not stop building settlements. Israel has been continually condemned for their actions in taking away land by the United Nations, United States, Russia, United Kingdom, and various other organizations. To say that they won ALL those settlements through the usage of war is completely wrong, they have used various other methods. If Arabs dropped their arms, yes there would be peace. But that is what I am trying to say, it is hard for Arabs to drop their arms against a country that has blockaded ports, dropped white phosphorous, and took away land illegally. Personally, I feel as though it is Palestine's responsibility to get rid of Hamas and other terror organizations that continually deride peace talks, and come together for a two-state solution, something Israel would gladly accept in my opinion. Again, the Arabs tried 3 times to go into Israel and kill everyone. You do not think the Israeli's are justified to respond with blockading ports, taking land to strengthen their strategic position and dropping some bombs? If you can't even stand getting slapped on the wrist don't try to throw a grenade at someone's face.
Yea, it's baffling that people can talk about stealing land and illegally building settlements when the Arab's original intent was to "Push the Jews into the sea" and kill every single man, woman and child.
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On November 18 2012 07:59 Housemd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:26 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 07:04 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:57 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:54 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 06:48 SupLilSon wrote:On November 18 2012 06:44 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 05:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 05:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 05:05 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
The goal of the Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel. Why would Israel want to compromise period? There is no trust, you give them a piece of land they move their rockets closer to you. The time for negotiating is long past. You can't kill them all. Or you can, but there will be splash damage from nuclear fallout. Unless you kill every single Palestinian there will still be resistance to the occupation. Also there are still tons of other Arab nations that can attack Israel. This is irrelevant, they tried appeasement, it failed because the Palestinians don't want a peace that both sides can live with. Their goal is not to acquire a fair share of land and resources to live now, their goal is to destroy Israel so they can live with magic man after they die. All Israel can do is play hardball until the resistance is crushed to the point of irrelevance or die trying. It doesn't matter how bad the current strategy is when there are no alternatives. The Palestinians have a dreadful situation going on. Living on the Gaza Strip is right dangerous, violent, and absolutely horrible, its a situation that we cannot even imagine. You have to understand, negotiating with someone who continually takes land from you is not an easy situation and the hatred that is shown towards Israel is a result of Israel's own doing. How about negotiating with someone who is willing to give a massive portion of their country to you, even though you send women and children bombs to blow them up? Oh trust me, its not easy from both sides. I support Israel trying to make peace (I'm a believer in a two-state solution even though it may never come into existence). And the country they are giving back to you are part of illegal settlements that Israel continually does on Palestinian lands. Any issues of legality went out the window when children and women were used as living weapons to kill innocent civilians. ...Not really. Both things were illegal and both things should not be condoned. Its like saying a person killed my family and took my house. I retaliate in an extremely horrific way to try and get my land back by killing the person's family. That doesn't make me right nor does it make the person who took my house right. If the Arabs dropped their weapons there would be peace. If the Israelis dropped their weapons Israel would be a graveyard. Do you agree or disagree with this? Because if you do, then your justifications for why it's hard for the Palestinians to negotiate are mute. Again, ISRAEL WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE UP LAND FOR PEACE. They would have accepted a 2 state system in Palestine. It's the Palestinians who called in their Arab possy to get all of Palestine and they lost. No shit Israel would take the land they won in the war, why wouldn't they? That's not them stealing land, that's the Palestinians taking a bad gamble with their cake. You can't gamble your cake to try to win 2 cakes, lose it and call the winner a thief. P.S. There has never been such a thing as Palestinian land, they've never been the owners of that land. This is irrelevant to the current discussion but I wanted to point it out. Israel has continually taken land from Palestine. This has continued in recent years as well, most notably after Oslo Accords which bans Israel from taking land in the West Bank, however it does not stop building settlements. Israel has been continually condemned for their actions in taking away land by the United Nations, United States, Russia, United Kingdom, and various other organizations. To say that they won ALL those settlements through the usage of war is completely wrong, they have used various other methods. If Arabs dropped their arms, yes there would be peace. But that is what I am trying to say, it is hard for Arabs to drop their arms against a country that has blockaded ports, dropped white phosphorous, and took away land illegally. Personally, I feel as though it is Palestine's responsibility to get rid of Hamas and other terror organizations that continually deride peace talks, and come together for a two-state solution, something Israel would gladly accept in my opinion.
the largest problem of the current situation is the catch 22 of the whole situation in the contested zone. Hamas got the control they have now because they were able to provide the daily services that the corrupt and incompetent government couldn't. now that they have power though isreal has to blockade the area or hamas will just get more supplies to strengthen their hold on the area and to do damage to isreal itself.
And invasion will sadly be the only way that this situation will resolve itself. An invasion will cause mountains more problems for everyone involved the least of which the people getting invaded themselves.
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How about Palestinians stop teaching their children that "Palestine" is all the land from the Jordan to the Mediterranean (no Israel anywhere) and stop printing maps that show "Palestine" as the same (no Israel anywhere) and then maybe it will be reasonable to think that the Palestinians are really interested in peace.
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EPT
