EPTOn November 17 2012 05:45 Skipper94 wrote:
yep yep yep
yep yep yep
This was unfathomably and unspeakably biased and was not worth the 5 minutes I spent watching it.
Israel Bombs Palestine; Kills Hamas Leader - Page 49
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sevencck
Canada698 Posts
This was unfathomably and unspeakably biased and was not worth the 5 minutes I spent watching it. | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On November 15 2012 10:36 Emperor_Earth wrote: I have only the deepest sympathies for residents of the entire region. fag. Irsael takes out a leader of Hamas who has been killing innocents (including woman and children). The fact that this is even a discussion is irrational to me. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:04 sevencck wrote: This was unfathomably and unspeakably biased and was not worth the 5 minutes I spent watching it. Lol something that presents Israel's side of view is "unfathomably" biased; but anything that presents the Palestinian "plight" is perfectly acceptable. Refute one thing he says in the video. Except for maybe the sources on the "polls" of Palestinian people he mentions at the beginning, show me evidence of one thing he speaks about that didn't happen.. or even didn't happen the way he said it did. Let's argue the facts | ||
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sevencck
Canada698 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:08 bkrow wrote: Lol something that presents Israel's side of view is "unfathomably" biased; but anything that presents the Palestinian "plight" is perfectly acceptable. Refute one thing he says in the video. Except for maybe the sources on the "polls" of Palestinian people he mentions at the beginning, show me evidence of that one thing he speaks about didn't happen.. or even didn't happen the way he wants it to. I'm not saying anything that precludes the possibility of Palestinian bias in many other areas. I'm not biased in favor of either side. Both have alot to answer for. I expect better from Israel than I do from Hamas though, so if both sides act in the same way I'm more harshly critical against Israel. This video acknowledges that the situation is complicated with respect to a resolution, but claims it's simple in terms of an explanation. The Palestinians think the Jews are subhuman, don't believe they have a right to exist, and aren't interested in any peace. That's the nature of this 5 minute summary. It's not a balanced summary worth anything, it's an extremely anti Palestinian editorial to justify Israeli actions. It's political rather than educational. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:04 sevencck wrote: This was unfathomably and unspeakably biased and was not worth the 5 minutes I spent watching it. I've called out Israel biased people here for posting shitty claims for not backing them up with sources. I'm doing the same here, if you don't like content that is being posted by the other side, can you at least please explain why the video is bullshit and bias towards Israel? I really do like reading threads like these because understanding both sides of a situation is something I am addicted to. Can we stop with these posts where you call someone out on posting something bad but not adding anything of substances too it to actually show why it is a bad post.... It would add so much more to the discussion rather than leaving it to hear say, he said, she said nonsense. | ||
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sevencck
Canada698 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:15 Shelke14 wrote: I've called out Israel biased people here for posting shitty claims for not backing them up with sources. I'm doing the same here, if you don't like content that is being posted by the other side, can you at least please explain why the video is bullshit and bias towards Israel? The conflict is over 60 years old, and however it began, the situation is currently more complicated than "the other side are monsters." Did you watch the video? | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 07:55 GeyzeR wrote: I think palestinians have to abandon their land and seek for asylum in one of islamic countries. By launching missiles and suicide bombing they achieve nothing. Israel wants all that land and palestinians cannot fight Israel and no one dare to speak against jews (apart from few "rogue"states), so no help will come from outside of the conflict. That's actually what they did since 1948. A good part of the Palestinian population fled the massacre, and the flow of refugee actually forced some neighbour countries into going to war (like in Syria). In the hostilities of 1948, 85% of the Palestinian population abandoned their homes, fleeing to the West Bank and Gaza, where one third, 15% of the Palestinian diaspora, still resides, and to the contiguous countries of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. They, and their descendents, who are also entitled to registration, are assisted by UNWRA in 58 registered camps, 10 of which were established in the aftermath of the Six Day War in 1967 to cope with new Palestinian refugees. Note that a lot of Palestinian refugee still lives in camps established in 1967. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee | ||
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Fenris420
Sweden213 Posts
Israel calling in reservists: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/israel-cabinet-authorizes-75-thousand-reservists_n_2146738.html http://edition.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/world/2012/11/16/wedeman-lklv-gaza-israel-egypt.cnn Ground forces posturing: http://www.smh.com.au/world/truce-bid-as-tanks-move-on-gaza-20121116-29hsp.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111615180851790.html And Egypt: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/16/egypt-protests/1708855/ (Muslim brotherhood in egypt) Looks like the israelis are looking for the approval of Egypt to some extent, and as always the Hamas are randomly shooting rockets. There is no question what will happen if the there really is a conflict, but I'd expect quite a lot of posturing and talking back and fourth before that is even a possibility. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:18 sevencck wrote: The conflict is over 60 years old, and however it began, the situation is currently more complicated than "the other side are monsters." Did you watch the video? I did and while I do agree with you that it seemed extremely biased and one sided. Having said that though, in order to post here and further the discussion rather than limiting it, I would more so be inclined to post why the video lacks information and is misinforming the situation rather than just saying. "Bad video, biased, don't like it" etc.. Now since I am not well versed in the conflict and do not have enough sources to refute the video I refrained from posting in the hopes that someone would with actual information to disprove the video. EDIT: I'm not calling you out to bash you by any means, so please don't take it that way. All I am saying is by posting like that then people who are "pro" that video will just in turn reply with a post that doesn't add anything other than saying you know nothing blah blah with out actually posting any sources or information either... etc and thus the thread will turn into a he said, she said thread and get locked. Luckily it hasn't been locked yet but countless times here it has just turned into that until someone calls out the person on their sources and posts their own and then that person stops posting because of getting called out. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:18 WhiteDog wrote: That's actually what they did since 1948. A good part of the Palestinian population fled the massacre, and the flow of refugee actually forced some neighbour countries into going to war (like in Syria). Note that a lot of Palestinian refugee still lives in camps established in 1967. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee Firstly, about a third of the refugees live in the camps. However, the truly sad part is that the surrounding Arab nations view the Palestinian refugees as a political pawn rather than the suffering families that they are. Of the 7 surrounding Arab nations, or the 15 other Arab nations, you'd think ONE of them could consider helping their "brethren"? I hate the Palestinian refugee problem so much because it is beyond my comprehension how they are still suffering so so much! Even when the surrounding Arab nations are offered international funding to absorb refugees, they STILL said no. The head of the UNWRA once said (paraphrasing) "the Arab countries don't want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an an affront to the UN and a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don't care whether the refugees live or die.” This is one of the saddest problems resulting from the conflict, that innocent people get used as political tools. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:08 bkrow wrote: Lol something that presents Israel's side of view is "unfathomably" biased; but anything that presents the Palestinian "plight" is perfectly acceptable. Refute one thing he says in the video. Except for maybe the sources on the "polls" of Palestinian people he mentions at the beginning, show me evidence of one thing he speaks about that didn't happen.. or even didn't happen the way he said it did. Let's argue the facts That's pretty much what happens. Palestinian-supporting news is swallowed whole and anything from Israel's side is thrown out. The bigger battle that even the rockets is slinging enough controversies, half-truths, and allegations of genocide and war crimes Israel's way knowing nobody will pay attention when they are discredited. Palestine elected the terrorist group Hamas. The installations of rocket launch pads are very close to civilian buildings and places like playgrounds and mosques that might have civilian deaths if ever Israel tries to destroy them. Israel launches its precision weaponry to try to avoid this (no stranger to the Palestinian tactics.) They are egged on by a population that knows it only has a few seconds of rocket warning before seeking shelter. Understandable retaliation, Hamas knew it was coming, and I'm guessing the political will from their election is accepting of civilian casualties so long as Israel is forced out. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:34 bkrow wrote: Firstly, about a third of the refugees live in the camps. However, the truly sad part is that the surrounding Arab nations view the Palestinian refugees as a political pawn rather than the suffering families that they are. Of the 7 surrounding Arab nations, or the 15 other Arab nations, you'd think ONE of them could consider helping their "brethren"? I hate the Palestinian refugee problem so much because it is beyond my comprehension how they are still suffering so so much! Even when the surrounding Arab nations are offered international funding to absorb refugees, they STILL said no. The head of the UNWRA once said (paraphrasing) "the Arab countries don't want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an an affront to the UN and a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don't care whether the refugees live or die.” This is one of the saddest problems resulting from the conflict, that innocent people get used as political tools. Is it serious ? Are you seriously using the palestinians refugee to blame on the Arab countries ? | ||
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sevencck
Canada698 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:23 Shelke14 wrote: I did and while I do agree with you that it seemed extremely biased and one sided. Having said that though, in order to post here and further the discussion rather than limiting it, I would more so be inclined to post why the video lacks information and is misinforming the situation rather than just saying. "Bad video, biased, don't like it" etc.. Now since I am not well versed in the conflict and do not have enough sources to refute the video I refrained from posting in the hopes that someone would with actual information to disprove the video. EDIT: I'm not calling you out to bash you by any means, so please don't take it that way. All I am saying is by posting like that then people who are "pro" that video will just in turn reply with a post that doesn't add anything other than saying you know nothing blah blah with out actually posting any sources or information either... etc and thus the thread will turn into a he said, she said thread and get locked. Luckily it hasn't been locked yet but countless times here it has just turned into that until someone calls out the person on their sources and posts their own and then that person stops posting because of getting called out. I don't have to present any sophisticated counter point to claim an obvious bias. It amazes me that you can both acknowledge and agree that the video is biased while also condemning me for saying so without adding additional points (which would be irrelevant to my claim). Fine. From the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/11/14/israel-palestinians.html Israel in effect saying it will void any and all peace accords if Palestine petitions the U.N. for statehood. The video that was posted cherry picked examples from decades ago implying that Palestine isn't interested in peace thus justifying Israel's actions. How fascinating then that Israel believes it can move against Palestine for asking for statehood in the eyes of the U.N. (fundamentally the same way Israel first achieved statehood in the eyes of the rest of the world) then claim it's peace accords will subsequently be void. What if I made a video citing this example to thus claim that Israel isn't interested in peace? Wouldn't be much different. Frankly, the fact that a video exists which attempts to sum up the 60 year conflict in 5 minutes by painting the other side as monsters is humorous. The fact that it's perfectly willing to ignore some of the things Israel has said and done is what makes it totally biased and worthless. Finally, many of the people from Israel posting in this thread have come across as extremely militant and it strikes me that they believe they're better served expressing their right to exist through violent means as opposed to peaceful ones. The fact that a video like this can be posted and people nod their heads is a testament to a lack of ability to see both sides adequately. Frankly, Israel and humanity at large are best served by making peace, and escalating the conflict and killing civilians is not the way to do that (particularly when Israel already has the support of most of the world). Eventually some rogue Arab state will develop a nuclear weapon, it's merely an eventuality, and by the time that happens I only hope there will be a reasonable level of peace. Edit: I'm not in favor of either side in this conflict. I'm honestly not. If anything I'm a bit more supportive of Israel, but I ignore neither side's opinions. I simply want peace. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:39 WhiteDog wrote: Is it serious ? Are you seriously using the arab refugee to blame on the Arab countries ? There is a lot of propaganda by neighboring states using the suffering and martyrdom of the Palestinians to justify their own agenda and atrocities. Take Assad for example. He is anti-Zionist and anti-Imperialist, but the guy used the ideologies to justify his own legitimacy and you see many comments on Al Jazeera supporting this. Same thing with Gaddafi. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:41 Shiragaku wrote: There is a lot of propaganda by neighboring states using the suffering and martyrdom of the Palestinians to justify their own agenda and atrocities. I will not talk a lot on this subject because my knowledge is limited, but you cannot really reduce the palestinian refugee problem to this kind of political practice. There is a problem of integration, land, etc. (in countries with no or almost no democracy and no solid infrastructures) that goes with the massive exode that the birth of Israel created. It's just funny that some random pro Israeli dude have the balls to actually consider that what is sad in this is that the arabic countries are not resolving the situation that Israel is responsible for. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
And the Palestinian refugee question is incredibly difficult. If all the refugees were brought back, the Jews would become a minority and Arab nations historically love to oppress their minorities and I doubt the Palestinians would be any different to their Jewish minority. I discussed this with an Arab speaker and his excuse was "Do you know what it is like to be a Palestinian that has to..." and listed all the atrocities Israel commits often. A fair amount of these guys are filled with revenge which honestly scares me because should Palestine succeed, they will lose the moral high ground altogether. | ||
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Housemd
United States1407 Posts
On November 17 2012 08:15 Shelke14 wrote: I've called out Israel biased people here for posting shitty claims for not backing them up with sources. I'm doing the same here, if you don't like content that is being posted by the other side, can you at least please explain why the video is bullshit and bias towards Israel? I really do like reading threads like these because understanding both sides of a situation is something I am addicted to. Can we stop with these posts where you call someone out on posting something bad but not adding anything of substances too it to actually show why it is a bad post.... It would add so much more to the discussion rather than leaving it to hear say, he said, she said nonsense. Okay, I'll take the bait. I'm not that educated on the subject so feel free to correct any points that may be wrongly stated. The first parts I agree with, in the UN Partition Plan, most Muslim states openly rejected the plan. This was a huge mistake, even stated by Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian President. The second part regarding the 1967 war is extremely shady. The essential question that it comes down to is that: Did Israel do a preemptive or justified assault on Palestinian lands? I feel that this was a preemptive strike by Israel (both sides had been amassing troops on borders) and that Israel should of been punished for their actions. After that, there were numerous attempts on peace especially done by Anwar al Sadat of Egypt and Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin at the Camp David Accords. I feel this was a great step ahead in the relations of both Egypt and Israel (both opponents at the time of the Six Year War). The video is correct in explaining this. However, the guy pretty much glorifies Israel and degrades Palestinians. He talks about how Palestine went against the United Nations plan, what about when Israel went against it in the Blockade of the Gaza Strip? What about when Israel used white phosphorous on hospitals? What about Israel takes land away from Palestinians for no apparent reason? There is no mention in that video of how Israel has gotten to the size of New Jersey? Maybe through the occupation of lands that were not even theirs in the initial United Nations Partition Plan? And trust me, I hate the organization known as Hamas as well. They are a bunch of cowards, and the through definition of a terrorist organization (attacking innocent civilians in Israel). My heart goes out for the children, women, and men who are innocent in this whole exchange. They live every night in fear of whether or not their house will be blown to bits. I just want peace in the area (it doesn't matter what I think though). Personally, I like the 1967 partition created after the Six Day War. http://original.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/palestinian-land.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#Gaza_War_.282008.E2.80.932009.29 Thinking Israel is inocent while Hamas is the only one guilty is stupid in my opinion. Please, argue any points that you may have against mine. Like I said, I don't have much information on this topic. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
http://chroniquespalestine.blogspot.co.il/2012/11/gaza-under-military-attack-day-3.html ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z12gSrIt5CY/UKanpz2gwMI/AAAAAAAAROI/9oXBFWv4r1g/s640/IMG_7769+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0CzIpC17rYs/UKanrn2kvTI/AAAAAAAAROU/jB6LrDFuuwc/s640/IMG_7845+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tIN5TlrvUjw/UKansr4AdaI/AAAAAAAAROc/3MG1vMWPuio/s1600/IMG_7862+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lUkfyZusPsY/UKanuSD054I/AAAAAAAAROw/SktjQc0Bb8Y/s1600/IMG_7958+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EZ6iWp2Fiys/UKanvYpbSsI/AAAAAAAARO0/-Vi1ZNATgKg/s1600/IMG_7964+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g-Udh0UAmi8/UKanwcdjNpI/AAAAAAAARO8/XaXL770yCSo/s640/IMG_7979+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PGGoWO8cmUM/UKanxYEyMOI/AAAAAAAARPE/Y048AzI4vtM/s640/IMG_8013+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gaasnHUqo4M/UKanyf__hOI/AAAAAAAARPM/BhgR3dLXJ38/s640/IMG_8029+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D8jAMrf4CCw/UKanzWS_hgI/AAAAAAAARPU/R8lADnVQLRI/s640/IMG_8056+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PpXsTd0Zgck/UKan0G5JYBI/AAAAAAAARPc/osVyb-IRcd4/s640/IMG_8132+c%C3%B3pia.jpg) | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
The posts by house and seven are good examples because they are discussing their view points and uses sources as evidence, all while not using personalized attacks against the other side. These type of threads can easily be turned into hate mongering, which doesn't help anything other than furthering the hate. | ||
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